The stupidity of people with puppies still astounds me!(40 Posts)
Yesterday am walking the hound and there's a teeny springer puppy in one of the gardens, adorable little thing, desperate to play with the hound who was ignoring it, quite late too and it's about -1 here just now at least.
Anyway today sees the same pup at the school gates with one of the mums, turns out her mother bought it for her father even though he's not well and he can't cope with it (after a day) so the daughter now has it and she's like it's mental I don't know how I'll cope with it, it's biting the kids
Same walk yesterday meets a 16 week old border collie puppy, going mad because it's on a lead and all its owner did was moan about it being hyper/biting/pooing in the house.
Both these breeds are working dogs bred to work a full day you cannot tire them out. Why do people still buy them and expect a lap dog?
I have a large hound but one 1 1/2- 2 hour walk a day and she's on the sofa snoozing for the rest of the day. Before we got her we researched like mad, husky, no, Dalmatian no etc. puppies for the first year are such hard work.
The spaniel people do sound a bit silly, puppies do bite after all but the collie needs to be on a lead until it has reliable recall, which is highly unlikely at 16 weeks.
At 16 weeks, it should only be getting a 20 minute walk per day so not much exercise.
You teach them how to wind down and settle in the house and they can be as calm and lap doggy as any other dog.
It really saddens me to see so many people assuming they are crazy and need hours of exercise a day, just because it's a working breed.
it's so untrue and providing them with the exorbitant amount of exercise and stimulation some people think they need can actually be really detrimental to them.
Their adrenaline levels stay consistently high and they are constantly anxious, physically unable to switch off.
I had the hound off the lead as soon as she could get out (and kept chicken in my pocket) but I understand why a lot of people wouldn't.
My brother has a springer and she's lovely not mad at all she's walked 2 hours a day and is fine with that.
I think that's very irresponsible of you, sorry but it is.
Chicken won't always compete with other dogs/people/scents/cars etc.
What if your pup had ran up to a fear aggressive dog and got savaged?
Or ran up to a nutty dog hating person and got hurt?
Or into the road after a cat and got flattened?
My dog has incredible recall now but if I had let her off lead as soon as she could go out she would probably be dead by now seeing as she likes chasing horses, cars etc. when younger, no treat or toy would have competed with another dog either!
You say you have a hound, I think you have been very lucky seeing as sight hounds are famous for disappearing off after rabbits, birds etc and scent hounds are famous for their poor recall and selective hearing, going off for miles tracking scent.
You say the stupidity of people with puppies astounds you, but then say you let your puppy off lead as soon as he was allowed out.
I am just shocked. I think you were so lucky not to have an accident.
I wonder if I've been sold a fake Border Collie then, he's 18 months old, had an hours walk this morning and has taken himself off to bed for the rest of the day apart from when the window cleaner came. He gives me a filthy look every time I go into the kitchen as it disturbs his slumbers.
Had a Springer before him and another Border Collie before that and they were exactly the same, perhaps I just encourage lazy dogs, come to think of it my kids slept for England too, if I knew what I'd done I could make a fortune.
Both these breeds are working dogs bred to work a full day you cannot tire them out.
Rubbish. Actually, these breeds only in part thrive on physical exercise and thrive massively on mental stimulation. They are both easy to train, due to their intelligence levels and if those needs are met, can be great family dogs. It's odd to assume that no family could manage them, many do and do so well.
I have to agree with pp, that letting a dog loose before training a proper recall and hoping that a tasty treat would always be enough to entice them back, is rather irresponsible.
You say you find puppies hard work? Then why are you berating other puppy raisers who are finding it hard work?
We had our puppy off lead (away from roads) from his very first walk, but as soon as we spotted anyone or any dogs, he was put straight back on lead so if you'd run into us, you probably would have assumed that he was always on lead. He's 7 months now and will heel off lead past people, but is still inconsistent with approaching other dogs so we put him on lead when other on lead dogs are about.
I think it's normal to moan about puppies. Puppies are hell!
We have a beagle and would NEVER have let him off the lead until his recall was 100%. We took ham to puppy training classes and were told they weren't a good enough treat for a beagle and we needed something much stronger smelling, e.g tripe. Even that didn't always work! We had a border collie before the beagle and she was more than happy with an hours walk a day and a run around in the garden. My mum has a cocker spaniel and he is the same, he gets home from his walk and sleeps the rest of the day.
Surely at 16 weeks they shouldn't be walking much anyway? I thought it was something like 5 mins per week after 12 weeks.
Also I adore my beagle but definitely moaned about him as a puppy, he was bloody hard work! Wondered what the hell we'd done for the first few weeks. 4 years on and he is our pride and joy and absolutely adores our 14 month old DD.
Honestly, I've never moaned about ours! I've had absolutely no problems and she's of a breed which is pretty well renowned for being less than easy. She's been far more pleasurable than some of our rescues! Maybe that's given me a different perspective? Having experience of truly difficult and traumatised dogs first?
(n.b. I'm not saying all rescues are this way. I purposely sought or was offered troubled ones, who were running out of options!)
Border collies easy to train falls about on the floor laughing. - They are highly intelligent but that does not mean easy to train - they choose to learn what they want to learn. You have to prove to a collie the reason for learning. They also learn the wrong things really really easily
Give me a lab or gun dog any day to train - now they are easy.
Working collies get less exercise than many sporting collies. Our farm dog used to work some days out on the hills and cover many miles but other days he would mooch around and not be needed for work at all - he would sleep and chill. Sit on the quad all day and hardly have any exercise.
I too have my pups off lead in a safe place from day 1
I think people are too quick to criticise new puppy owners (just like they are new mothers!) I "know" about dogs but are pretty crap at other things - does that mean I should not try - surely the only fault is if people are not willing to learn - give these new owners a chance to get it right
I thought it was something like 5 mins per week after 12 weeks.
The KC recommends 5 minutes, per day, per month of age, so at three months, a 15 minute walk plus some house/garden play
Border collies easy to train falls about on the floor laughing.
Ours (workers and pets) always have been. GF worked and trialled sheepdogs!
Thanks Amantes, that makes more sense .
Ps I didn't mean a 5 minute walk per week, just realised how badly I phrased it! I meant 5 mins per week of age after 12 weeks old, daily. Still wrong though!
As a pup she was off lead in a safe place from day one practising practising and practising recall.
If you look on any gumtree site there are loads of young dogs for sale as the owners don't have the time for them. 6-7 month old dogs that are past the puppy stage, haven't been trained properly and are uncontrollable. I fear these pups may go the same way especially the springer.
ohhh stealth boasting Amantes
All dogs are easy to train if you are experienced, a collie is a hard dog to train for a novice dog owner.
Also try and train your collies to do something they do not do naturally - sheep dog trialling is what they are born to do - where do you trial we have probably competed against each other?
Boasting about what, mutty? As I said, my GF (grandfather) trialled his collies (and it was well before my time!) I was alluding the the fact that my family (gf working and trialling, us as workers and pets) do have experience of collies, therefore this may explain finding them generally easy.
Ooh, so in actual fact, you're a 'stealth boaster', yes?
I let my pup off lead asap in a safe place, and was encouraged to do so by trainer - better to do it when pup is very young and 'needy' rather than wait until they gain confidence. Pup learned early on that coming back means play praise and treats, not sure an adolescent dog would be as impressed.
Surely better to embed recall as soon as possible??
But if the pup is off lead and chooses to ignore you once, the notion that recall is optional becomes more embedded?
I think it's safer to teach recall in the house then outside using a long line personally so they get no opportunity to practise not coming back.
But eventually there has to come a day when you trust your dog to come back - whether as a very young clingy puppy or an older dog used to a long line, either way there is a risk the dog won't come back.
I let my collie pup off lead, in a huge, safe field as soon as she was allowed out after her vax's. When they're tiny, their human is their security and they don't want to let you out of their sight. That's the time to a) Get recall outside sorted and b) teach them to keep an eye on you.
The absolute worst thing anyone can do is keep a puppy onlead until its older and getting confident, not teach it a recall and then let it off and expect it to stay close by. As soon as the lead comes off and the dog realises it's able to go where it chooses it'll be gone in a flash, yelling "FREEDOMMMMMM!!" as it goes!
Totally agree with Mutty re: collies/trainability. Yes they excel at what they were bred for ie herding. They're hard wired to enjoy it. No treats or toys needed to teach a sheepdog; their ultimate reward is the opportunity to work sheep. It's like teaching me to excel at eating chocolate.
Haha Near I wish my beagle had got that memo. He's a hound, he goes where his nose takes him. Couldn't care less where his owners are, and couldn't even as a tiny puppy. We were strongly advised with a beagle to not let him off the lead until his recall was 100%.
Butthole - yes recall needs to start in the house/garden and when my pup was older and more confident we went back to a long line when out and about until recall was as close to 100% as it can ever be - you're absolutely right that they need to be prevented from practising the wrong behaviour
But little puppies let off lead in a secure area tend to want to stick close by and not let you out of their sight and IME that lesson tends to stick.
Whereas a dog who has never HAD to keep an eye on its owner because it's had a lead on for months, and has grown confident, tends to behave as if it's the owners job to keep an eye on THEM when let off!
Ah yes hounds can be a different kettle of fish, granted!
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