Breeding from a male dog?(16 Posts)
How does it work without it being a random accidental shag in the park effort
Our boy is still far too young I know but is just a wonderful dog.
working lab with good 'credentials', we wouldn't be that fussed about cash. He's just a super dog (he's handsome, smart, calm and well behaved) that I would imagine would be desirable.
Just no idea on logistics.
Is there anything other than him being a lovely dog that suggests he's a suitable candidate to breed from? Is he worked successfully? Has he competed in either showing or field trials?
There are huge numbers of labs being bred. In 2013 alone there were over 35,000 labs registered with the KC and there'll have been a whole lot more that weren't registered. It really is a breed where people can afford to be (and should be) very picky about their breeding stock.
There's quite a list of health tests that need to be done on labradors before they're bred from, and some of these can only be done once the dog is over 1 year old. The absolute minimum is having their hips and elbows scored, plus their eyes tested. There are an additional 7 DNA tests which should really be done as well.
Handling a stud dog really isn't as easy as just presenting him with an in season bitch and letting him get on with it, especially if he's never done it before. Yes, some people get away with doing it like that but due to the mechanics involved it's easy for dogs to panic and hurt themselves or each other in the process, again especially if they're new to it.
Your best bet is finding someone heavily involved in the breed and experienced in handling stud dogs and ask for their help. Ideally you'd want a mentor that could help you with all the ins and outs of learning how to breed properly.
Labradors have a HUGE problem with hip dysplasia, what are his hip scores?
He and the bitch should have a hip score well below average, you shouldn't even be considering breeding him without getting this done.
There are other genetic tests that need doing but you will have to google them as gundogs are not "my breed".
You say he is a working lab with good credentials, what are these exactly?
Is he an outstanding working dog?
A FTCH? A proven, excellent worker?
Every dog owner has a 'just wonderful' dog, my dog is PERFECTION.
She is wonderful with kids, dogs, she has a high prey drive and I feel would like to harm my cat, yet gets on with her for no reason other than to please me.
She is beautiful, obedient, what more could you want?
But it would not be right to breed her.
What would she add?
Nothing really, just more collie pups to an already saturated market.
You need to have an outstanding reason to breed, especially a breed as popular as a lab.
It doesn't sound like he is registered nor from health tested parents.
If he was, his breeder would be willing to mentor you and give you all the help you need.
Unless he is an outstanding, proven worker and health tested (I mean expensive hip x rays, blood tests for genetic disorders NOT a vet check) you are HIGHLY unlikely to be able to find a good quality bitch for him.
What you will get are the dregs, poor conformation, poor working ability, possibly poor temperament bitches whose owners have no idea and want to breed just for the cash or the experience.
Studding a dog can change their personality, for the worse.
You also have I ask yourself what happens to the pups.
As the stud owner, you don't have so much control over what happens to his puppies, what sort of homes are they going to end up in?
The sort of bitches you are likely to get are unlikely to produce desirable puppies i.e. Temperament is largely inherited, a nervous or aggressive bitch will likely produce pups who mature the same, without both parents being proven workers they won't be desirable for working homes, as he is unregistered and working type show homes are out, that leaves you with the pet market.
You are spoilt for choice if you want a pet lab, they are ridiculously popular already.
To be honest, even with all the heath tests in the world, it's highly unlikely any good breeder would put their bitch to an unproven and unknown dog - ie one who has not excelled either in the show ring or at a field trial. I certainly wouldn't.
The bitch owner is the one who gets to pick the stud, and there are some fabulous ones out there.
Also, it is the stud dog owner who is expected to handle the dog at stud and they need to know enough about the process to tell the bitch owner when is the right time to bring her to be mated. You will be expected to know what to do with an aggressive bitch, what to do if the dog is unable to penetrate, what happens with a slip mating and on and on it goes. You will be expected to be familiar with the process of mating and ensuring it doesn't damage the dog; an unwilling or frightened bitch is a fearsome, snarling creature. Do you know how to successfully turn them when tied? Do you know what your legal position would be if a bitch caught an infection following a mating? Or what the position would be if the puppies were born with a defect; cleft palate, swimmers, not properly formed?
As a process it isn't roses and candlelight and preparing for it - ie health tests is going to cost a good few hundred pounds. Not withstanding the expense of the tests for a stud service which you don't want to charge for, do you feel you have enough knowledge of the process to offer the service?
It may seem like a lovely idea, but please, please don't do it! Unless your dog is an exceptional working dog or runs away with all the prizes from dog shows, it is not worth it.
Our collies are perfect in every way (to us). And it might be lovely to breed more of our idea of perfection. The reality would be awful.
EVERYTHING that the other posters have said.
Our working cocker comes from a long line of FTCH, I have hips scores and relevant health tests for his parents and grandparents, but not him.
He is also the sort of dog that gets comments about his looks and particularly his gentle and placid temperament wherever we go.
I still would NEVER breed from him. NEVER. EVER.
ps - I wouldn't breed from him as there are plenty of excellent working cockers around, those who actually intend to work their dogs in the field usually will get a puppy from people they know anyway, whose bitches have the working ability proven.
There's plenty of labs in rescue, I would hazard a guess anyway.
wow, that's all super helpful, thank you.
he comes from a family of very well regarded gun dogs and the breeder has a wonderful reputation for producing best in class. Her partner (who's a shooting instructor) was horrified he wouldn't be working and we had to assure them he'd be taken picking up (we have friends that shoot) at the least.
But it's interesting to know that unless we're showing him or competing him no one will care. I've had police dog handlers and also guide dog trainers all asking after him due to his exceptional behaviour - at least he's got a home should we not be able to have him .
His hip scores etc are all good but again, I'm not interested in getting extensive testing etc done for the sake of breeding from him.
Thanks all for replying. Think we'll still with original plan of neutering him at 18 months
I there a distinct shortage of labs in your area? Otherwise i cant imagine why you'd breed more.
Out of interest, what are his hip and elbow scores?
Have a wander around local rescue centre or contact labrador rescue. No need to breed
Hip score is 2/3 and elbow 0
Can I please just stress that I am not desperate to breed from our boy. I was simply asking what the craic is. And with SO many helpful replies, I've said that we'll carry on with the original plan to neuter him.
Best decision LittleMilla, and big respect for you listening To the views and understanding, too many who wouldn't / don't and there are thousands of dogs suffering as a result
Our dog was imported as a stud dog ( diff breed) hip And elbow X-rays were -from memory in the region of £800, you need these X-rays to have the scores done by a panel of vets. Then there are the eye tests, and genetic tests....from memory.
It's not simply a matter of saying he has good hips, these are v specific X-rays.
So not something to go into lightly really......
You should also not be just finding a nice lab bitch.......she needs to be tested etc, you should be looking at lines, seeing what you want to enhance etc. it is quite a complex process to do well, tbh I wish sometimes that he was just our pet and didn't have this other stuff........just enjoy your dog as a pet. He sounds fab in that regard.
He's a bloody brilliant pet dog (hence asking in the first place), so I'll simply remain smug when people give him compliments and enjoy having such a bright spark that does as he's told
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