Noise / environmental health

[ilovemilton]

I have received a letter from the environmental health dept at the council. It states they are investigating a complaint about my dog barking, and once the investigation is complete I could be looking at court action, a fine or the dog being removed.

I am aware that my next door neighbour made the complaint, as they told me that they were doing it. Previous to this, they always told me what a lovely well behaved dog he was. However, the same neighbour has been recently causing a lot of the noise, particularly in a joint alleyway. They have removed a joint gate, which affected my property; spent days and days drilling and cementing and hammering; and are now using the shared alleyway for a mobility scooter. Whilst doing all this, I have heard them deliberately antagonising my dog, kicking the shared fence and shouting at him. So yes, my dog has recently been barking, but only at the sudden change in noise, which is ridiculous levels at the moment. They have told the council that they are being held prisoners in their own home as my dog attacks them if they try to leave the house!!

Additionally, there have been a couple of incidents where the other side have had parties and fights at 2am, which I have reported to the police. Again, the dog barked at this. The police said there was nothing they could do about the noise but they would have to intervene if anyone complained about my dog in the middle of the night!

I have written to the council asking what form their investigation will take and how I will find out when it is over, but I have had no reply. My worries are that it will be obvious when they are here and my neighbours will wind the dog up on purpose.

Does anyone know what I am waiting for to happen? Will I just get a court summons one day? Will I know if someone is watching the house? Will they take my dog away? And how can I have my say about what has made the dog bark recently?

[ilovemilton]

I originally posted this in legal but had no response...can any lovely dog people offer any advice please?

[NCISaddict]

Does your dog bark only when in the garden or do they antagonise youe dog when it's inside? If it's just outside could you keep the dog inside more? Or bring him in as soon as he barks?

[yesbutnobut]

What a horrendous experience OP! I've no direct experience but I think other posters on similar threads have suggested keeping a diary of when your dog barks. Having that evidence/facts to hand may help defend any claim the council may try to make.

[MsRyanGosling]

That is shit. What wankers.

What about maybe getting some CCTV and recording your dog, their noise and what happens when they go out to see if it marries up what they're stating?

[ilovemilton]

Thanks.

Yes both inside and outside. The man bangs in the alleyway joining both our houses first thing in the morning and at random other times. And the banging in the garden can be heard in the house too. In fact I heard him shouting at the dog while I was using the hairdryer in the complete opposite corner of the house yesterday.

I have started to record stuff...but no doubt they have too. Which will include all the barking they cause!!!!

[ilovemilton]

Does anyone know what the council are likely to do? I'm worried that if a van sits outside when I'm at work, for example, next door will see and deliberately carry on their tricks to get them to hear the dog barking.

[MsRyanGosling]

Would it be dealt with as a civil matter or a criminal matter? I'm fairly clueless but if it's civil then cases are decided on the 'balance of probabilities' so if they present as unhinged and you present as perfectly rational with good evidence which shows you've put thought and time and proof that you are a responsible dog owner (training classes? KC Good citizen? Other independent witnesses - postman? Any friendly courier/takeaway delivery drivers then hopefully the case would be found in your favour?

[ilovemilton]

May I just add that the dog is nearly two and the barking has been an issue for about three weeks

Also, there are many other dogs in the street and adjacent gardens. They all bark too and I think I'm getting the blame for this too, as some of the times they have complained my dog has been sat quietly in the lounge with me at the time!

My mum checks on his when I am at work (part time, school hours) and she says she has never heard him bark.

[ilovemilton]

That's the problem, MsRyan, I have no idea how it is being dealt with. I have rang and written and emailed and had no reply!!

But I will be keeping records so I come out of this as the rational one!

Some examples of their complaints:

(I also have cats) "your cats scare the birds out of my garden"
"your trees blow leaves onto my garden"
"you let your dog run around the garden like he is one of the cats"

[whojamaflip]

As an ex dog warden who had responsibility for nuisance noise if I was dealing with a complaint like this I would have written first to you to let you know that a complaint had been made. The neighbour would be sent noise log sheets to record the alleged problem over a time period say 2 weeks and then return the sheets to the council.

I would then have arranged to come and see the dog owner to discuss the allegations and get their side of the story. I would also have planned in some officer observations based on any pattern which may have shown up in the noise log.

If the alleged problem doesn't improve then I would have installed noise recording equipment to get hard evidence to prove the complaint. Then back to the dog owner to discuss if there is an issue or back to the complainant to tell them there is no case.

If it is a proven nuisance then a Noise Abatement Notice would be served and only if this is not adhered to then it would be court.

It is a long process and the evidence must prove it is a statutory nuisance - it can't be served on what someone says iykwim.

I would try to contact the council again - preferably by phone as letters can take up to a couple of weeks to deal with. At least you canals contact with the person dealing with the complaint and they can see that you are concerned and not just ignoring if there is a problem.

Also agree with keeping a log detailing any attempt to upset the dog

[WeAllHaveWings]

They have told the council that they are being held prisoners in their own home as my dog attacks them if they try to leave the house!!

This would be my first worry, Is the area where the dog is outside enclosed away from the neighbours and the shared alley/gate? If not I wouldn't leave the dog unsupervised in the garden.

Every time the dog barks bring him in, regardless of whether they antagonise him or not, I would not leave any barking dog outside as its unfair to all neighbours.

They do sound like wankers but even if you can get proof, your dog needs to be brought inside i mediately when the neighbours are acting up, and trained not to bark at outside noises, then they (and potentially others) have little to complain about.

[ilovemilton]

Thanks, who...it's a relief to know they arent just going to take him away!

So will people be observing the house when I'm not there? And where would the noise recording equipment be fitted?

When I ring they say they can't put me through to any officers that can help

[ilovemilton]

Yes, I bring him in straight away when he barks. He is well trained to do this and so he only barks minimally anyway...my whole point.

My garden is completely and safely enclosed by a six foot fence. They can't even see him.

And we are talking about a Jack Russell - Poodle cross btw....

[NCISaddict]

Could you try putting the radio on to drown out the noise from them? Moving him to the other side of the house? Perhaps get a dictaphone with a time stamp so you can record him and know what time and for how long he barks. Then you have evidence to take to the council. Would you be able to ask your other neighbours about the alleged noise.
Our neighbours complained years ago after a single episode of barking after our dog had got out of the kitchen and upstairs so was on my bed barking at everything she could see. We asked the neighbours on the other side and they said they could never normally hear her. I still worried though, it is horrible.

[ilovemilton]

It is so worrying and horrible!

He is normally such a quiet and lovely dog...he's going to be upset by new constant banging, no matter how well trained he is!

My fence is being kicked and shaken. The noise in the alleyway is impossible to escape once they start, the banging echoes through the house; and I think I mentioned earlier, I heard him shouting in his garden whilst I was using my hairdryer at the front of the house. I don't actually complain about his noise, the council and police told me I can't anyway...so how can my dog be punished for it?!

[whojamaflip]

The council can do monitoring when you aren't there - they would either be on the public road or footpath or on the neighbours property. They aren't allowed to come onto your property without you there. The noise equipment is usually set up in the house of the person complaining as it is trying to prove that the noise is a nuisance and affecting their enjoyment of their home and is prejudicial to their health. If the officer does do observations from the neighbours then the neighbour is not going to be able to wind the dog up while they are there.

Agree with pp in that you need to be sure that the dog is well contained in that it cannot get at the neighbour and substantiate the allegation of not being able to use the alley. Is it possible to put some sort of barrier to keep the dog away from the fence - maybe a run of chicken wire several feet inside your garden so that he can't get close to where the neighbour is walking?

Also if you go out is the dog allowed access to the garden or is he shut indoors? If he is allowed to come and go as he pleases I would seriously consider shutting him in a room as far away from the problem area as possible - if he's harder to wind up then he's also harder to disturb.

As regards the officer at the council - ask to speak to the person who signed the letter - if they are in available then request a call back by the end of the day. Then if still no contact phone and ask to speak to their boss - usually gets a reaction.

[NCISaddict]

If you set something to record the dog then you'll also record the noise the neighbours make which would be useful.
I know that Moose who's a regular in the doghouse has recorded her dog when he had separation anxiety so hopefully she'll be along soon and can tell you where she got her recorder.

[moosemama]

Hi, I record my dogs every time I have to leave them, as our elder one had separation anxiety after we lost our old girl last year, our neighbours left a rude note on the door informing me he was making a noise and I started a behavioural programme with him straight away. (Have to say, my neighbours were fine once I'd been round to apologise and explained what was happening.) Then we took on a pup that had a bad start and he also turned out to have a degree of SA, so we're back to square one now and not wanting to inconvenience my neighbours further, my dogs haven't been left at home alone for more than an hour in over a year.

I record them really for my own piece of mind, so that I know whether or not they've made a noise and can modify their training and apologise to the neighbours if necessary (it hasn't been so far, but only through a huge amount of effort on my part). I started doing it because I was getting incredibly stressed about whether or not they'd made a noise while I was out and I was likely to get a visit from the neighbours to complain any minute - for me it was better to know, forewarned is forearmed and all that.

Anyway, yes, I currently use an older version of this dictaphone, but we are just about to install an IP camera with two way audio, like this, which is a cheap option for being able to monitor exactly what they're up to when I have to go out, from my mobile.

An alternative would be to pay for a service where you set up a camera and your videos are all recorded and stored via an online/cloud service, such as the Y cam, but they are more pricey and you need to be careful to ensure you get sound recording.

Your neighbour sound like they are deliberately causing trouble for you - did you get on with them prior to this?

[Owllady]

God this sounds like what happened to me
I recorded whilst we were out and the neighbours were throwing stones at the window to wake the dog up and then hiding behind the hedge (where no other people could see) and antagonizing the hedge. He would get in the bay window and encourage the dog to bark in our bay
It really was quite shocking and still makes me feel sick to think about it

The action I took was
Never put the dog in an adjoining room to their house
Never put them in the room with the bay
Environmental health suggested leaving the t.v. on in the adjoining room and the radio on where the dog was kept (as it reassures the dog and kills any other noise to a degree)

They won't take your dog off you

[Owllady]

Antagonizing the dog, not the hedge :o though I am sure the hedge wasn't happy either

[ilovemilton]

Thanks moose, great idea! We kind of got on before this, although they had phases of making odd comments. To top it off, when they made their complaint, they said I could let the kids carry on playing because they don't mind their noise!

[ilovemilton]

Owllady, there is no room where you can't hear him banging in the alleyway...but I like the idea of music.