Prong collar. WTF?

[SunnyL]

We came across a rottie loose in the woods today. It was harassing my mums greyhound who was on the lead as she's just had major surgery. We couldn't see or hear the owner at all. I went to pull the dog back by its collar when my mum stopped me. It had a prong collar on. So if you pull on its collar you hurt it.

The owner came up eventually and I challenged her to tell me why it had prong collar. Apparently it's an 11 stone dog and is uncontrollable without it. I pointed out that why would any animal come back to you if you were going to hurt it.

I've never seen such a vile thing on a dog before. Why would anyone think it's a good idea? A handfull of biscuits would do the job far better.

If the owner is on here I sincerely hope you think twice about putting an instrument of torture on your pet again.

[Topaz25]

The owners shouldn't have an 11 stone dog if they can't safely train and restrain him. I don't think collars that hurt the dog work because as you said, why would they want to come back if they're getting hurt? I've seen choke collars make pulling worse, the poor dog doesn't make the association that pulling is what's causing the pressure, they just panic and struggle to get away. So sad. Positive training methods are better and safer.

[tabulahrasa]

I agree with you about prong collars - but a handful of biscuits is a bit simplistic...

I see prong collars being suggested on rottie forums especially in the US as Rotties are stubborn and will choose to do something they get an adrenaline rush from rather than do what you want for a reward ( though of course other breeds can be just as bad for that) and a prong collar can be a quick fix for this.

Personally I'd rather just up the training than stick pointy things in his neck...and you don't know how your dog is going to react to pain, it could make the behaviour worse and of course longterm the dog may well just adjust to it and go back to the original behaviour.

But then if they think their dog weighs 11 stone they're obviously either not bright enough to actually weigh him or their dog is so overweight that they're clearly not that bothered about his wellbeing anyway.

[SunnyL]

He was a gorgeous looking Rottie. Dumb as a brick though which made us think he'd had almost no training. Why would you spend a fortune buying such an animal if you're then too cheap to fork out for training sessions. Stupid stupid people.

[Ohbyethen]

God, the neck wounds I've had to deal with from those bastard things. Some people were amenable to my suggestions because it was cruelty born of trusting 'X who has been in the breed for years says', some not so much sadly.
I remember feeling my heart break when the next time one came in, a boxer actually, the metal collar had been replaced by a shock collar. Things have changed a bit on that front now.
I wish it was the case that, like Police officers and tazers, part of the purchase requirement fir those things was having to experience them - but used as you would use them - shoved in a field, with a task that is incomprehensible to you and shocked/stabbed until you guessed. Because ime owners that can't train without these things actually can't use any tools correctly.
I hope your mum's pup is feeling much better soon.

[tabulahrasa]

Oh I've had people "helpfully" suggest a shock collar for my rottie...now even if I agreed with them, he's aggressive with other dogs and iffy about strangers touching him because he has back pain which he's associated with meeting dogs and people (because it hurts then) how on earth would adding in more pain help?

[SunnyL]

I just cannot believe it is legal to own one of these devices. the woman said it was the only way to control an 11 stone dog. Well I'm 11 stone and there is no freaking way I'd want to wear something like that let alone have someone pull on it.

[Lonecatwithkitten]

True prong collars are illegal in the UK, they were immediately taken off large dogs when they arrived from the USA into the quarantine kennels. We presented them to owners on their first visit to dispose of.

[SunnyL]

Seems like it is legal to sell these in the uk. A quick google and I could find plenty suppliers. www.luvmydog.co.uk/acatalog/Herm_Sprenger_prong_collar_LuvMyDog_worldwide_uk.html

Lonecat are there more evil ones in use in the USA then? Apparently Crufts has a stand this year selling prong collars.

[McFlurry]

For a abortive to be 11 stone, it would have to be seriously overweight for a start. The absolute biggest example wouldn't be anymore than 8-8 and a half stone. People who exaggerate the size/weight if their dog peeves me irrationally.

Prong collars, like shock collars. Are tools used by the terminally lazy who can't be arsed to put the effort into achieving a basic level of obedience. Until a few months ago (when we sadly lost one) I was walking nearly 18 stones of dogs (1 giant breed and 1 very large Rott X) on normal flat collar and lead with no problem.

[McFlurry]

Prongs aren't illegal in the UK but aren't widely used, thankfully. Electric shock collars are banned in Wales and hopefully the other UK jurisdictions will follow suit.

I used to be in a US forum for the giant breed that I own. The use of prong collars was rife and they refused to believe me that they weren't widely used in Europe and that good lead behaviour could be achieved with training alone. I, in turn, couldn't believe that theses people who otherwise appeared devoted to their pets, could conscience inflicting pain on them unnecessarily so I had a huge ruck with them and flounced.

[AlpacaLypse]

Are these the same apparently normal Americans who think nothing of cropping dogs ears?

IME a properly fitted head collar solves most pulling problems if you're in a situation with a badly trained big dog.

[McFlurry]

I know. I don't get it either (about the ear cropping etc). The thing is that the breed in question is far from difficult to train and very receptive to reward based instruction because they are by nature eager to please. I'm usually not one to tar a whole nation with the sane brush but if that forum was representative of the US's dog owners, then they are a nation of lazy and cruel fuckers.

[SunnyL]

I walk my dog on a halti. I showed it to the woman who was dismissive and said it would never work on a rottie the size if hers. I pointed out it was a head collar which was all that is used for Clydesdale horses. Funnily enough she had no answer for that. I've posted about her on my Facebook page so potentially others will challenge her if they see her.

What makes it worse is my mum is a very experienced dog trainer. She's just retired after 20 years of teaching. In 20 years she has had absolutely no need to use such nasty techniques but this woman wouldn't believe us.

[tabulahrasa]

Well my head collar works fine - in fact he only wears it now because of him being reactive with other dogs, so I have control of his head.

Without dogs he's fine on a normal collar.

[tabulahrasa]

As in I used the head collar to work on loose lead walking until he stopped pulling...otherwise it just sounds like, well I can use a collar so anyone can, lol

[mrslaughan]

My dog weighs more that 11 stone - halt works fine. it is just ignorance unfortunately.

[Owllady]

God I have had to Google, how bloody cruel :(

[Owllady]

I used a harness rather than a Haiti but my dog is only 13kg

[mrslaughan]

I would question actually if a male rottie would be 11stone, that's 70kg, I would have thought that unless it was really over weight, that would be an over statement.
I am sure it is big and heavy, and may to lead on a regular collar, but I doubt it is actually 11 stone.

[tabulahrasa]

No a male rottie should be at the very most if it was at the top end for size about 8 and a half...mine is 7 because I keep him lean because he has a bad elbow and a bad back - and when I say lean, I don't mean underweight just in the lighter side.

[Lilcamper]

The owner of the website above has linked this thread on his Facebook page. His stand was quite quiet today.

[SunnyL]

Interesting Lilcamper - I'm going to look for it.

In the meantime here is a petition on Change.org to get these things banned. I'm not normally a fan of demanding things get banned - id prefer education normally. But seen as these items are bought by the inherently stupid and lazy I can't imagine it would be a quick and easy route to educate them. Meanwhile dogs are being harmed. Here is a link to the petition

www.change.org/en-GB/petitions/kennel-club-crufts-ban-luvmydog-worldwide-from-crufts

[Lilcamper]

I have signed it already. The bloke is great with copy and paste too

[tabulahrasa]

That's some business strategy...

I could accept that I'm selling a controversial product and that people may disagree with it, possibly address some concerns on my facebook page and run in it a professional way...

But, no, fuck it, I'm going plaster emails all over it and then bitch about them.

[SunnyL]

Jings I've just found his Facebook page. What an unpleasant way to do business. Clearly he is passionate about what he sells and think they are a wonderful product. But I just can't understand why he would take this aggressive nasty tact if he wants to expand his business. What a nasty character he must be.