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8 week old pup..second night...crates/so much conflicting advice. Help please.

(23 Posts)
Megglevache Sun 02-Mar-14 20:48:36

So far our cheeky little monkey is weeing and doing it lying down all over the place. He went on a pad once ..he will not wee or poo outside so far.
im starting a proper feeding schedule tomorrow so will be more on top of things.
hes teeny so obviously will not be able to go great length of time dry in his crate. How regularly should I wake him too wee/poo..

all the dog owners we know have put puppy pads IN the crate which very much conflicts with everything ive read online.

any advice is welcomed.

thinkingaboutfostering Sun 02-Mar-14 21:17:05

I bought a crate that was the correct size for my dog once fully grown. In it I have given her a bed and it also put in a large tray (which I got from garden centre) and in that I placed newspaper. I found that she would still sometimes go on the bed in her crate but not as much as without the paper. She's now 15 weeks and is dry overnight about 60% of the time. I didn't wake her at night she would be let out at 11pm and then would be let out at about 7am. During the day I would put her outside about every half hr but still had lots of accidents in the house. Just about coming out the end of it now I think and she's making it outside90% of the time.

Lilcamper Sun 02-Mar-14 21:19:26

Toilet training is all about creating good habits. Young pups have very small bladders and very little bladder control so they need to be in the right place when nature calls.

To toilet train successfully in as short a time as possible you must take your puppy to the garden:

When they wake

After eating

After taking a drink

Before, during and after a period of activity

When you come in

Before you go out

Before bedtime

During the adverts

And every twenty to thirty minutes in between unless they are asleep. During periods of activity change that to every ten to twenty minutes.

Stay outside with your pup. Do not nag or distract him just mooch about and he will do the same and eventually eliminate. Quiet praise is sufficient. Once pup has eliminated you can either stay out and play or go back indoors. If you stay out for a game then he will often need to go again before you go back indoors so stop the game and stay out for a while longer to give him a chance to go again.

If you have to take him back in and he hasn’t eliminated outside then either confine him to his crate, sit him on your lap or tuck him under your arm (small breeds only) as you go about your chores and try again in five minutes.

It is imperative that you do this, especially if you have started off with newspaper down or puppy pads because your puppy may prefer to pee indoors and he could simply be waiting to be taken back in. Give him zero opportunity to go wrong.

If your puppy toilets in the house it is because you haven’t toilet trained him yet and didn’t take him outside when he needed to go. When this happens take a rolled up newspaper and hit yourself over the head whilst repeating the words “I forgot to watch my puppy. I forgot to watch my puppy” If your puppy laughs at you when you do this – praise him.

Common mistakes during toilet training.

Using newspaper or puppy training pads. Whilst it may aid the clearing up process it can be very confusing for the pup that is taught or permitted to toilet in the house to make the transition to going outside and will often result in a pup that when playing in the garden will simply hold on until they are back indoors because that is where the toilet is.

Leaving the door open. This does nothing to teach the pup to toilet outside only.

Reprimands for toileting in the house will result in a dog that believes you disapprove of what he did not where he did it and is damaging to your relationship with your pup.

Giving treats for toileting in the garden, again the dog is being rewarded for what he did not where he did it. Whilst this is not going to be as big a problem as the reprimand, the clever dog will learn to do lots of little wees and never fully empty their bladder. The insecure dog may wee indoors to appease you if you get cross about something else because they know that this is something that pleases you and gets rewarded. NB using both reprimands and rewards is very confusing for your pup.

Expecting your pup to tell you when he needs to go out. Once a pup understands that outside is where the toilet is then he may start to let you know he needs out. However if you are not there to ask or you fail to notice him asking then the housetraining will break down. Far better to have a dog go out to the toilet on your schedule once they are house trained.

Giving your pup an ensuite in his crate. Do not encourage your pup to toilet in his crate by putting puppy pads in there. If you have to leave puppy for a while and he is going to need to go then best to have the crate inside a larger pen or blocked off area and leave the crate door open so that he can get away from his bed to toilet.

N.B. Areas indoors where pup has had an accident are best cleaned with a dilute of biological washing powder. Avoid using disinfectant as this contains ammonia and can encourage pup to pee there again.


Young pups will need to go to the toilet once or twice in the night for anything from a few days to a few weeks.

If your pup is sleeping in a crate in the bedroom with you then they will wake and should let you know they need to go out. Carry pup to the garden to eliminate and then straight back to bed again. A few nights of this and it will take you longer to find your slippers because of sleep deprivation and consequently pup is learning to hold on and will soon be sleeping all night.

If you choose to leave puppy in the kitchen or utility room to sleep then do not shut them in a crate and simply clean up in the morning without comment.

Why punishment does not work for house training.

A typical morning in the life of an 8 week old pup.

7:00am Puppy pees in the garden – Owner present. Gets praised

7.30am Puppy pees in the kitchen – Owner present. Gets a reprimand

8:15am Puppy pees in the lounge – Owner not present. Nothing happens except relief

9:00am Puppy pees in the lounge – Owner present. Gets a reprimand

9:30 am Puppy pees in the kitchen – Owner not present. Nothing, just relief

11:00am Puppy pees in the garden – Owner doesn’t notice Just relief again

11:30am Puppy pees under the dining room table – Owner not present. Nothing happens

12:15pm Puppy pees in the garden – Owner present – gets praise

What we think we are teaching puppy is that it is good to pee in the garden and wrong to pee in the house but what the pup is actually learning is that sometimes it is rewarding to pee when the owner is present and sometimes it is dangerous. However it is always safe to go when the owner is not present and that so far the safest place is under the dining room table.

NOTE. - Never deny your dog water in the mistaken belief that this will aid toilet training. It won't. It will make the urine stronger, it may impact on your dog's health, i.e. cause kidney problems or urniary tract infections.if the dog drinks greedily and excessively when it is available knowing it will be taken away.Dogs must have clean fresh water available all of the time.

fanoftheinvisibleman Sun 02-Mar-14 21:21:45

I broke the online advice too and put paper in. We got him at 8 1/2 weeks and he was clean overnight after a week. We never woke him but we are only in bed for 6 hrs.

thinkingaboutfostering Sun 02-Mar-14 21:32:31

I disagree Lil particularly with the reward thing. I know that that was when the turning point was made with my pup. She was never rewarded for going in the house but was when she went outside. Immediately she started to get it. It often wasn't possible to get her outside before she went as she would wee whilst playing (she has perfected the art of weeing whilst running) but the instant she cottoned on to the fact that she would get a nice bit of ham if she went outside she did. Her accidents are usually when I'm not in the room to spot that she is asking to go out or because she nervous that I've left her.

anchovies Sun 02-Mar-14 21:37:37

Lil's advice is exactly what we did with our puppy. Was extremely painless, we set the alarm in the night and literally plonked her outside. We bought a temporary small crate so the whole thing could be her bed which meant she never ever went in her crate. Sold it on eBay when she got too big for it smile

anchovies Sun 02-Mar-14 21:41:01

We used to do 11pm before bed, 3am and then the morning I think. I have a feeling she cried if she needed to go though because she didn't want to go in her crate.

Megglevache Thu 13-Mar-14 08:05:50

Hi All
Thanks for your advice- he's now going into his crate at about 10pm (taking himself off there) and waking at 6am- roaring

He always wees in his crate(on a pad and his bed) no matter how many times I have come down during the early hours to let him go into the garden to relieve himself.

He's doing the odd poo in the garden which is great but he pees everywhere- he just eats those training pads (even in his crate) I've tried a towel with a bit of wee on- he just chews and runs around with it) He has no particular area he favours- he just goes EVERYWHERE.

The whole of our downstairs is open plan and we can not reign him into one area- pads or sprays do not work. Any ideas.

PS- he's totally nuts but we all love him.

Boring pics attached (yes I am turning into THAT kind of dog owner grin)

tabulahrasa Thu 13-Mar-14 09:02:26

What is he now? About 10 weeks?...

I know you get people who tell you their puppies were trained in days, but, I'm pretty sure they're the equivalent of parents who tell you their children were potty trained at 18 months.

Just keep taking him out, loads of praise and treats when he does it outside and ignore it inside.

I'm pretty sure mine was 12 or 13 weeks before he stopped peeing in his crate.

needastrongone Thu 13-Mar-14 09:11:50

Agree, my puppy is nearly 16 weeks. We haven't had many accidents in the house at all. That is NOT because he's amazing and I am the best dog owner in the world, just that we did as Lilcamper advised.

The advice is from Sally Bradbury, who is an extremely respected and well known postive dog training and behaviourist.

I reckon this last week or so, our puppy really does 'get it'. I can leave him now, uncrated for 3 hours (twice a week to work) and he's dry. And he is able to wait until we go out, or ask to go out.

Our crate is only big enough to have the bed in though, so I think that helped at night, as he's always been dry from 9pm til 6am, and dogs don't like to soile their beds generally.

needastrongone Thu 13-Mar-14 09:12:22

ps - he's lovely, we have a cocker, but working.

kilmuir Thu 13-Mar-14 09:21:14

He is very young. I would be getting up at 2 to put him out for a wee. Our puppy is now 15 weeks old. We had a week of going out 4 hrly at night then gradually got later and longer.

Megglevache Thu 13-Mar-14 09:52:37

hello- thank you for your kind words.
I was setting alarm for every 3 hours to take him out and all he did was jump up at me and want to play (which I didn't) When I took him to the garden he'd run around grin
he had to go in his crate for the school run and he did pee on his mat.
I'm wondering if I should get a raised plastic bed thing to go into his crate?

and yes I suppose I am taking far too much notice of people around me who insist their dogs were dry at 8 weeks grin
He is 11 weeks.

Racerider Thu 13-Mar-14 13:27:37

Does he wee when you take him out ? If he does that's good news.
I took mine out every 10 min at first unless she was asleep. I wrote it down, or set kitchen timer to remind me. Was hard as weather was yuck and it is a full time job but it passes quick.
At 15 weeks she doesn't really ask to go out yet but we take her out often and we don't have many accidents ( less than one at day ).
Puppies change REALLY fast, his bladder will grow and he will get more control.
FYI she is in crate 10.30pm-6.30 am and we take her out once at around 2 am - she's dry at night with this routine.
Also remove water bowl in evening ?

insanityscatching Thu 13-Mar-14 16:06:47

Eric is 11 weeks and has meals at 9am, 1pm and 5pm. He has walks within 15 minutes of meals which means all poops are caught outside. I get up at 6am and he pees then and again at 8am. then he goes in the garden once or twice between walks He has his last walk at 9.30 pm and another pee around 11pm and is clean then until 6am.
If I watch him constantly we get no accidents, it's only when I am distracted that I miss his cues circling and sniffing.We have found a definite improvement now that he is going out walking (only around the park next to the house) tbh I think the new smells seem to encourage him.

Lilcamper Thu 13-Mar-14 16:58:53

Race rider you should never remove water. The only time it is acceptable is if the pup is fast asleep in the crate. It can cause all sorts of health problems. See my long post above.

mumnosbest Mon 17-Mar-14 10:03:11

I'm by no means an expert but have proudly toilet trained my first pup so thought I'd share smile

We struggled for ages and got to the point of wanting to murder the dog give up. Someone here advised getting rid of puppy pads and paper and taking him out in the garden on a lead every 20 mins or so. He slept in his crate from 11-6ish and was dry within 2 weeks. Still leaves the odd parcel if I'm not quick after his breakfast but I will learn smile

Goldencity1 Mon 17-Mar-14 15:17:15

Lilcamper has given you toilet training 101 - absolutely the way to go. The only thing would say is my retrievers did get a small treat/praise for going in the "right" place in the garden....

Personally I hate those puppy can you expect a pup that has learnt to "go" on one of those to realize that what you really want is for him to go outside? IMO all they learn is that there is a toilet indoors...

Mind you, it is easier if you have all tiled floors!

nuttymutty1 Mon 17-Mar-14 15:39:27

Puppy pads have smell on them to encourage the puppy to wee so if you put them in the crate you are encouraging the puppy to wee in its crate. This will only confuse the puppy.

Remove all puppy pads and follow the advice above.

zeedogwhisperer Thu 03-Apr-14 16:20:23

Guess he still needs a lot of serious practice. Try to observe the after meal poo/pee act.

DEXXIE Fri 20-Jun-14 02:01:49

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

KiwiJude Mon 28-Jul-14 01:18:48

This thread is going to be very handy for me in a couple of weeks when we pick up our little man. It's 11 years since we had a puppy in the household. Have brought a smaller crate for while he's a puppy and will get a bigger one when he is bigger. So excited! smile I do remember DH being unpleasantly surprised at some of our last puppy's toilet antics the first couple of nights (he'd never had a dog as a pet before), I think he's well prepared this time smile

SpicyPear Mon 28-Jul-14 07:58:32

Yes the advice in lilcamper's post is spot on. We did use treats though - I'm not sure I'm on board with that rationale for not using them.

It sounds as if pup is over stimulated when put out in the night so not going. That is your problem. Either take out on a lead or what we did was put up a puppy pen in the garden and pop him in it on a boring patch of grass so there wasn't anything else to do in there but pee.

You may end up stood there for some time to start with until he gets the idea of what he is out there for.

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