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1st attempt at recall training :(

(23 Posts)
Notonaschoolnight Sat 06-Apr-13 15:09:09

I watched the kiko video man has pup on longer lead he shows pup a treat and throws it short distance, pup gets treat and watches owner has another treat in hand so pup goes back to owner, owner clicks and says"come" and repeats.

This look great so this morning we went into empty basket ball court, pup sat I treated and showed her another treat and threw it small distance (1m ish), she made no attempt to get it at all. Tried a couple more times but it was like she hadn't a clue where it was and had no intentions of using her eyes and nose to find it.

Methinks I'm going to have to find another way

Floralnomad Sat 06-Apr-13 16:01:01

My dog won't work for treats does yours like balls or toys ? We use balls here as my dog would do anything for a ball ,they are extremely high value .

poachedeggs Sat 06-Apr-13 19:46:27

Two thoughts. Treats have to be mega exciting to compete with other smells and excitement. And dogs have to be hungry enough to want them.

Perhaps try again, a bit longer after a meal, and with tiny cubes of cheddar, chicken or hot dog?

PointeShoes Sat 06-Apr-13 19:56:25

Chicken or small bits of cheese should work. Get the pup really excited. And focused on you before trying anything, stand in front of the pup, with it looking at you then throw the food or toy. And keep the pup on a short lead while you do it, throwing it a short distance away. Then let the dog get food or toy. Go with the dog on lead and gentle guide and be excited about getting it. Then go back to where you were saying, come. Running backwards bad patting knees may help, and reward quickly with another treat.

PointeShoes Sat 06-Apr-13 19:57:23

Try it before tea time , when she's abit more hungrier perhaps too.

3kids2cats2dogs Sat 06-Apr-13 20:05:30

my rottie will do anything for anyone if sausages are on offer, I buy the frozen mini type cook and freeze them taking a few out each night for training next day...saying that as I put in another post my little JRT will do nothing he is told no matter what is on offer (apart from walking today for the first time in 12 months without trying to hanging himself and barking all the way which I think may have been a complete fluke) he will take a treat drop it and carry on doing what he wants to do, but don't give up, im not I AM going to have a quiet obedient jack Russell if it the last thing I do smile good luck and keep at it x

needastrongone Sat 06-Apr-13 20:15:45

I found that recall training worked with really delicious treats like liver, cheese or chicken.

I waited until our puppy was pottering in the garden a few feet away then shouted his name and 'come' in a highly excited voice, praising tons when he did come. I gradually increased the distance I was away from him until I was a long way away, our garden is vast. I didn't ever toss the treat away though I am sure that works.

Also got the kids to stand a few feet away from each other with a high value treat and shout the command enthusiastically too and praise highly, each in turn.

We trained the recall command profusely. Our puppy will always come back when called and off lead but we treated this as initially our biggest and most important command. He has once shot off and not come when called with a very big distraction but I went back to basics with the training after he did this . He will come even when playing with other dogs.

Big and huge caveat is that he's yet to be a teenager so I will slink back and eat my words in a few months time I have no doubt!!!!smile

fanoftheinvisibleman Sat 06-Apr-13 20:27:10

I'm having the same problem. Chicken, cheese, chunks of cheese, toys or balls hold no interest when out.

I'm starting to think the only high value thing I could offer is if I could pull a dog or new person out of my pocket grin

idirdog Sat 06-Apr-13 20:31:10

Don't start this game outside play it first indoors where there are less distractions. Throw the treat nearer to you to start with and then run away from the dog calling is name. Don't throw the treat away to start with, generate the distance by you moving from him.

Also get clicking. Just say his name, he looks at you click and treat, do this many times a day in the house, don't worry at this point for a recall command.

Also click and treat him when he is near to you or in the heel position.

Gradually build up the distractions

needastrongone Sat 06-Apr-13 20:32:15

Laughs at fan.

Also note puppy is a huge wuss and usually within approx 5 feet of his family member (and especially me!) at all times anyway!

Notonaschoolnight Sat 06-Apr-13 21:48:25

Thanks everyone I've battered my head with this so I shall reread in the morning and try and use everyone's points for a plan of action, but my first thought was that the treat was fine (I only use chicken, cheese or hot dog) but not hungry enough is a valid point shed not long had breakfast, and ill use your replies to work on a new method tomorrow

Notonaschoolnight Sat 06-Apr-13 22:02:16

Idirdog your suggestion is something we do in the house and into the garden and as I back off and reposition myself she's mostly following me a unless there's something more interesting to do in the garden, I'm wondering if that's due to not being hungry enough god knows. If she was doing this reliably, what would you do next?

gymmummy64 Mon 08-Apr-13 12:02:36

My dog will eat anything, any time, but I still need to up the ante on the treats to compete with other distractions. So, sometimes I'll take a mixture so he doesn't know what's coming next. I also pop stuff (not cheese!) in the microwave for a few moments before we leave so my pockets are smelling extra meaty. I vary the treats from day to day. One definite success recently was venison sausages from Tesco - they really smelled very strong and very different. I guess none of that is very useful if he's not food motivated though!

idirdog Mon 08-Apr-13 14:08:23

Recall needs to be looked at more than just calling your dog back to you. See it from the dogs point of view, they need to understand that much more fun and better things happen when they come back to you. So with puppies you can start from day one working on recall but not in traditional ways.

I tend to work on the following with puppies, foster dogs and new dogs to me:-

1. Click and treat just for name in the house

2. Have a reinforcement zone dogs get treated for being close to me always.

3. I teach all my dogs to play tuggy (yep even the ones that hate the tuggy the 9 year old resuces that hate toys etc .....all dogs will play tuggy with the correct instruction) The advantage of playing tuggy is that the reward is much more value and lasts longer than one piece of cheese. For some dogs the tuggy may be a treat bag that holds food but all dogs will play tuggy- I can give advice on this if needed)

4. I teach all dogs to love having their collar held - the reason for this is that you can then teach restrained recalls and ups the fun for the dog. Gently hold the collar, and have someone calling the dog - you can be excited and say ready , steady the dog will be slightly pulling on the collar (which is great) then let go as the person calls the dog, chase the dog to the person calling them. This begins to get a fast response to the recall

5. Recall circle - Use your DC's give them all clickers and yummy treats in turn call the dogs name and click and treat when he goes to them in turn.

6. Hide from your dog do this indoors, get someone else to hold him by his collar and run away then call him, he will come charging, you can build up to this in the garden. When he finds you have a major game of tug. I would actually start this one with a game of tug so that the puppy is already having fun and wants to find you.

7. Another game to play is to gently push against the dogs chest and run away, with a tuggy the dog will run after you in a second for the game, the slight restraint to start with of course makes the dog want to be with you.

8. For a food orientated dog in a long corridor throw a treat and the dog will get it and then run away with a tuggy the dog will chase you. Do this in a long corridor is possible first so there are less distractions, then you can take this game on the move.

9. Another great game to help with recall is the circuit game. Have something you can run around, so this may be a kitchen unit or around the sofa or around a small bush in the garden. Play tuggy to start with then run around the circuit the dog will chase you and reward with tuggy game or food. Tuggy is more effective.

Generally try these games out and do them a combination of them each day. Only a few minutes but several times a day you will soon have a dog that will want to stay with you all the time, you will have conditioned the dog to know that when you call great things happen and who wanted to play with those other dogs anywaysmile.

So general rule of thumb recall to the dog means he will have more fun with you, always always reward a recall with either a game or food for a long time yet. Do not reward slow recalls but look at why they are slow, dog does not understand, there are too many distractions, you have not practised enough on each game indoors.

gymmummy64 Mon 08-Apr-13 14:51:52

Wow, brilliant post from idirdog - just reminded me when I was first working with Gymdog's recall, I actually didn't spend much time on actual recalls. He was quite happy to play 'recall' when the mood took him and he fancied a treat, but it didn't go any further than that. Just doing more of the same really wasn't getting us anywhere.

My turning point was when I realised that when we were on a walk I was completely irrelevant to him. That was what needed addressing first. Second was him referencing me which he also didn't do. So, I would make sure we had eye contact every time he emerged from a bush or reached a corner in a path or came to a choice of routes. Third was the distance he would go from me - it was much too far and also needed addressing. I did all of those things on a long lead for a long time! Once we'd worked on all that the actual act of me calling and him coming was the easy bit and being offlead soon followed.

So although my dog is an adult rather than a puppy I thought I'd share those thoughts as it really made me look at the whole thing rather differently and the change in my mindset really worked.

Notonaschoolnight Mon 08-Apr-13 17:00:37

Brilliant ideas thank you once the kids have finished their fish fingers were doing a recall circle!

needastrongone Mon 08-Apr-13 17:03:26

Excellent post by idirdog (I am on my laptop so not calling you Idiot Dogsmile). So useful, I will bookmark. You clearly have excellent knowledge and thank you for sharing.

Gymmummy - I found your second paragraph really interesting too smile. My 6 month old Spaniel does exactly all of these things naturally and that's fascinating in itself. When out, he references me constantly, makes frequent eye contact, checks back continually and rarely strays all that far (half a field if following a scent but much less usually). Which is probably why his recall, at present, is really good. I hadn't appreciated he does these things until you wrote them down. Well, I did in the house as it can be a bit wearing sometimes, he frequently just watches me specifically very intently, even if others are trying to play with him. He likes to keep an eye on me!

Out of interest, do you thank other dog owners for being respectful of the fact you have a reactive dog? Today on our walk, we passed 4 reactive dogs. Immediately that I saw each dog in the distance and clocked that they were leashed or being leashed, I called my puppy or said the 'wait' command and leashed him myself until at a safe distance. I also ended up very obviously changing route so as not to infringe their dogs space, meaning we actually took quite a boring route. Usually, folk are grateful for this but today not at all! Moan over smile

However, puppy got high value treats for this behaviour, plus extensive following of the 'leave it' command, given the amount of horse poo around today, so his belly is full of cheese anyway smile

gymmummy64 Wed 10-Apr-13 14:06:54

strong I find other owners vary hugely. I certainly thank owners who call their dogs away but they're probably in the minority. I met one this morning who looked at my dog and said 'dogs don't usually attack bitches, it'll be fine'. confused The number of times I've heard 'it'll be fine' is ridiculous. How can they possibly know? They don't know my dog or how he might react, I can't understand why they would want to risk things. I always prefer avoidance whenever I can.

CoffeeShoppe Wed 10-Apr-13 14:16:46

I used a whistle and it was so quickly learned.
Bought an ACME 510 from amazon
Start by being indoors, do a peep peep or whatever sound you want, then give the dog a treat. a piece of cheese or sausage, anything tasty.
/do that several times, so the dog associates the whilstle with a treat. /then move to the garden and do the same. Let the dog walk off, peep peep and he will fly back for his treat. Then do it when on your walk. It was so simple, honestly.

Notonaschoolnight Wed 10-Apr-13 17:01:13

Funnily enough coffee I bought one too and yes she flies back to me, so much better than relying on my voice.

needastrongone Wed 10-Apr-13 17:12:55

I have that whistle - but always forget to take it with me smile Must teach whistle recall though too.

gymmummy64 - strange that. I leash my puppy always if the other dog is leashed. Today I leashed my puppy when walking past a family who had a toddler, although they soon told me not to as they had 3 dogs of their own at home and she was used to them! If in doubt, whether dog or person, I'll stick him on the lead. If they then intiate contact, he has to sit before being fussed. Can't understand 'it'll be fine'

I haven't figured out how to stop him sniffing out treats in peoples pockets though! Being a sniffer dog, he can sniff a person with a treat very easily, then he jumps up of course, for the treat. People with treats in pockets usually don't mind this, which then undo's the training NOT to jump up smile

Ho hum...

CoffeeShoppe Wed 10-Apr-13 17:22:27

I keep the whistle permanently in a skinny pocket of my wax jacket, so it is always there, along with various treats. The cheese did it for me. My dogs will do anything for a bit of cheese. Any old sausages left over from mealtimes, i always use as training treats rather than anytime treats. I make sure they are super tasty and the recall comes naturally with pigs like mine grin

Shouting and calling is very much hit and miss, plus in woodland or at a distance the voice doesn't travel so far.

BUT my dogs are nowhere near perfect, on the lead in particular it is pull pull pull and nothing I can do will change that! I much rather leave them off the lead and they will stay closer. Not always practical if you have to do some roadwork though, because if mine saw a bird, whoosh they are off!

CoffeeShoppe Wed 08-May-13 00:28:57

Have no idea why i put ACME 510 !! I mean the 210.5

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