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The doghouse

My dog has to go... :(

45 replies

AllIWant85 · 29/07/2012 07:31

I have a 4yo JRT who is my life. We got him from a rescue centre 3 years ago when I was suffering from depression and he put me back together. He was the calm influence I needed to slowly sort my head out and on those really low days he was right beside me curled up, silently supporting me.

He's always had a few issues - he had separation anxiety which we resolved with crate training, he is dog aggressive (which we sought help with) and very protective of me and the house. On the whole though he is the most loving dog in the world.

When we found out I was pregnant we knew things had to change. My DH started doing more with him and for him. We changed where he slept, we tried to teach him to calmly greet people instead of bouncing all over them and licking them. All this was going fairly well although the over excitedness was still there.

Fast forward to this week at I give birth to DS. We knew the introductions would have to be gentle and gradual. The first couple of introductions he was in a state of anxiety. He panted rapidly, cried and constantly pulled on his lead to get to the baby. The next day he was allowed a bit closer and he sniffed and licked the baby again whilst on a lead as he was too excited. Yesterday afternoon went to do the same and he sniffed and licked the babies feet and then sat near. Then all of a sudden he just lunged at DS and went to bite his head. It was only the quivk reactions of DH that stopped him. There was no batking, growling, etc. DH took him back to his bed and resettled him.

We returned from the hospital on Thursday, the dog was brought home Friday morning. He hasn't eatrn since then, has been very agitated and is farting like a troooer, all things he never normally does. He is quite obviously unhappy. My DH took DS out yesterday and I spent some time with the dog and it was lovely.

Now though, after the incident, DH says he has to go. He says we will never be able to trust him and how would we live with ourselves if he injured DS. I think deep down I know he's right, I can't fully trust that he wouldn't attack. I also know its no life for him to keep him locked away most of the day.

I haven't stopped crying. I don't want him to go, he is like a child to me and I owe him my sanity, my life. I feel guilty for even considering returning him, I want my dog. I don't know what I hope to achieve from this post, I guess it helps to write things down. Please don't flame me, I am feeling very fragile at the moment.

:( :( :(

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IDismyname · 29/07/2012 07:37

AllIwant - you poor love. I am a dog lover and a mum, but have thankfully never been put in your position.

All I can think of is: to talk to your vet and see what they have to say.

Buy a muzzle (today) to give you some breathing space and allow dog and dc to coexisit for the time being. Pets at Home are open on Sundays. Just do it asap.

Do you have space to kennel the dog outside? I know the separation may be too great for him, but that may be a compromise...

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EasyToEatTiger · 29/07/2012 09:24

How terrifying for you. Is it possible that the dog may have thought the baby was a toy? Something very precious to be coveted? One of our dogs was very shocked by the arrival of a new baby and his eyes nearly popped out of his head. Neither of our older dogs especially like young children. Babies are very small, very vulnerable and very unpredictable. If you are bent on keeping the dog, it would be sensible to seek professional help. www.apdt.co.uk/ This article from Your Dog may be useful. www.yourdog.co.uk/Dog-Training/cure-for-a-fear-of-children.html Some info about the author www.petbehaviourcentre.com/page5.htm These people might be able to help too. www.apbc.org.uk/ You may need some help specifically about terriers. Hopefully you will get all the information you need, and move forward in a way that suits all of you.

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AllIWant85 · 29/07/2012 09:24

I have a muzzle, I use it when walking in a area busy with dogs. The priblem is even if I muzzle him he's still so agitated I wouldn't be able to have him off lead in the house incase he jumped on the baby.

A friend has him for up to a week at the moment as at least he can eat and not be locked up constantly. If things go how mt DH wants them to then I will only see him on my own once more and that will be it.

I'm hurting so bad, I can't stop crying.

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AllIWant85 · 29/07/2012 09:48

Thank you for the links, I shall have a read through.

:(

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kilmuir · 29/07/2012 09:50

Why does DH have the final say

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EasyToEatTiger · 29/07/2012 09:50

Please get some professional help. It sounds as though neither you or the dog are happy. It is not always obvious how to live with a different species. There should be someone on the end of a phone, even on a Sunday! I hope you reach a satisfactory way forward.

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fishybits · 29/07/2012 09:59

I love my dogs very much but if either of them showed any aggression towards DD or was obviously unhappy since her arrival then I would contact a no kill breed rescue and have them rehomed.

You are not going to have time to "work with" your dog and your dog going to bite you son without warning would be a deal breaker for me.

It would break my heart but it's what I would do.

Good luck Sad

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AllIWant85 · 29/07/2012 10:35

My DH doesn't have the 'final say'. I do however, value his opinion and take his thoughts and concerns into consideration.

My initial reaction was contact a behaviourist to come and assess the situation. My DH contacted the rescue centre we got him from and we are awaiting a call back from their behaviourist. Part of the agreement of rehoming him was that if for any reason we couldn't keep him then he had to be returned to them.

My DH says even if we worked with a behaviourist, would we be able to ever trust the dog. I want a decent quality of life for both the baby and the dog, not a home with segregated areas to protect one from another.

Part of me thinks it's the fairest thing to do but then a massive part of me can't bear to let him go, he fixed me when I was broken and now it's like I'm ditching him.

Although the attempted bite is serious, I can't say what made him do it. I don't think it was aggression but maybe I am naive. The bit that is hard it seeing him suffering, not eating anything, constantly panting, crying, and generally in a constant state of agitation.

How can you ever say goodbye to something you love so much?

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D0oinMeCleanin · 29/07/2012 10:37

There's a few things that stand out to me. One is that you are so anxious about it all and sound like you have been before the baby was born. It is very possible that the dog is picking up on and reacting to this.

Secondly your baby is only a newborn. Keeping them separate using stairgates should be easy at this point. Your baby can't move.

I would visit your vet asap and get the dog checked out. The vet might recommend some meds to help ease your dogs anxiety, otherwise try a DAP collar or some spray.

Contact a behaviourist who will be able to give you some insight into why the dog is behaving as it it and how you can help ease his fear.

Lastly your DH does not get final say. It should be a joint decision, although personally if my demanded that my dog goes and ruled how and when I could say goodbye I keep the dog and loose the H.

This doesn't have to be the end of the road for you and your dog OP. With careful management and training you will be able to find a way forward that allows you to keep the dog safely.

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Lucyellensmum99 · 29/07/2012 11:17

I agree with doin, i am really sorry but i think your anxiety is causing the problem. I was terrified when i had my DD2 as we had a rescue rotweiller Shock and when i found out i was pregnant (DD1 was 15) i said that the dog had to go, but DP refused and i don;t think i could have gone through with it. He was good with the baby, just ignored her actually, we didn't do the whole introduction thing - apart from telling DD2 when we bought her home from the hospital "thats yazz, he stinks" and didn't force the issue. I was very anxious about it all and had quite a few "words" about it with DP.

I definately don't think you have to make a rash decision now, as doinmecleaning says, you can keep them separately with no real problems. Is he dog crate trained? happily crate trained so that he has a place of refuge?

Do get a behaviourist, ensure they are accredited and not just spouting the latest fad in dog behavior theory, you need to get it right. We had a behaviourist for our rottie, the first guy we had, VERY expensive, and it became apparent very quickly that he was spouting shite (dominance theory and all that tosh) we were then recommended an ex police dog trainer who was used to rotties, we really just used him as an independant eye to say, yes, that dog is worth perservering with - he was, i am so glad we kept him, sadly we didn't have him for much longer as he died young but im glad that we got to be his forever home as he had such a bad start in life and was close to being written off by battersea as they couldn't find him a suitable home.

I think you have a dificult few months ahead of you with your dog, but he has given you so much, i think he deserves a chance, and whilst you need to keep your baby safe 100% no question, i think you can manage it safely.

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Lucyellensmum99 · 29/07/2012 11:20

oh and yes yes yes to DAP diffuser, my rottie was MENTAL when we got him and we installed one of those and he settled down almost overnight. I wish you all the luck in the world and hope this gets sorted out for the best.

I have a JRT who mended me when i was depressed so i totally understand why you can't bear to be parted from him.

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AllIWant85 · 29/07/2012 11:35

He is crate trained, we trained him with one to deal with his separation anxiety which worked really well. The problem with stairgates is he can jump them. That leaves me with locking him in his crate upstairs (his bed) where he is whimpering because he knows the baby is in the house.

I think I want to get a behaviourist to 'assess' him first,at least then I know if it's a lost cause.

He isn't the best behaved dog and he can be unpredictable but I still love him. I didn't think this would be an issue. He's had exposure to children (granted not newborn) and he's always been ok with them. I thought he'd be excitable to begin with but would gradually calm down when he realised the baby was staying. A bit like when we have a visitor he's manic for 5-10 minutes then completely chills out after the initial greeting is done.

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D0oinMeCleanin · 29/07/2012 11:42

You can buy dog gates which are higher than child safety gates.

How is he when the baby is in the pram? Would it be possible to walk him alongside the pram? This might help ease your anxiety and his.

Also it sounds like he has been in his crate a lot since you brought the baby home and locked away from the family? This won't be helping things. I'd be tempted to just use doors to keep them separate for now and make sure you are spending time with the dog.

You could keep a muslin that has been near the baby in his bed, so he gets used to the scent of the baby.

Most importantly work with and listen to what the behaviourist says and make sure the dog gets enough exercise, hard with a new baby I know, but vital for making it work.

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EasyToEatTiger · 29/07/2012 11:48

You are separating him from the rest of the household. Although it may seem sensible it is really very unkind to the dog. You say he's a JRT? Can he go in his crate near you? If not, why not? If he's near you and the baby, and you are giving him treats when he's good around the baby, you all benefit. Dogs hate being left alone. It's solitary confinement. In human terms, it is a severe punishment. I think too, that you are possibly very anxious. Are you ok after the birth? When we live with other species, it is a huge responsibility and when things go wrong, apart from a very few cases, it is the humans who cause the problems! Very few people have perfectly trained dogs. Often people think our dogs are well behaved, but in the broader scheme of things, they are certainly not!!

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EasyToEatTiger · 29/07/2012 11:51

Sorry I sounded so harsh. I hope you are alright. You do sound terribly upset and worried and I apologise for probably not listening.

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AllIWant85 · 29/07/2012 11:56

We do have the dog gates as they were bought to stop the dog getting to the front door when we had deliveries/post etc. I think they are 15cm higher than the standard baby ones? He still clears them,he is a determined little thing!

We have been doing gradual exposure. Bringing him into the room with us (on a lead) and then getting on with whatever we are doing to try and make it seem normal. All obediance training seems to be lost though! He won't even sit which really is his bread and butter command and never normally fails.

He has a muslin, I've shown him all the baby clothes before washing and allowed him to sniff the nappies before binning them.

I haven't tried walking them together yet,he is a little wary of the buggy but maybe if we all went out together it wouldn't be quite so daunting. My DH has been doing all the exercising at the moment. Delivery didn't go well for either the baby or me so mobility is a little tricky at present.

My DH took DS out yesterday so I could spend some time with the dog which was lovely.

I really appreciate you taking your time to try and help me,it's helping to process my thoughts and get ideas of what to do.

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AllIWant85 · 29/07/2012 12:00

I'm under no illusion that he is not perfect. He is a problem dog with lots of issues which we manage in our lifestyle but this one was unexpected.

I could get another crate for downstairs and put him in there with DS and me, I didn't think of that.

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EasyToEatTiger · 29/07/2012 12:08

It can be difficult to pay attention to everything, especially if you are still in pain. Can you sit down? I bet your dog is relishing a bit of time together. It is really important to remember the other members of the household when you have a new arrival. It can be quite a shock when the baby actually arrives, and you are thrown into a completely new way of life, which probably includes the kind of tiredness you thought only happened to other people! If you are worried about the dog and the buggy, perhaps your dh could go out with the buggy and the dog but without the baby? Does the dog enjoy ball games or toy games? If so, he would be well entertained by them, and less interested in the contents of a pram!

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EasyToEatTiger · 29/07/2012 12:14

Congratulations on the birth! I hadn't read that it was so recent! Most dogs aren't born baby-killers. We used to have a babycage for the dcs when they were tiny. The dogs were not interested and they felt safe too

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D0oinMeCleanin · 29/07/2012 12:21

Oh yes congratulations on your new arrival Grin

Does your dog have anything to do in the crate? He is probably getting very bored and frustrated. Invest in some kongs and other treats and chews to keep him busy. Chewing toys are especially good, dogs release their anxiety by chewing things.

Yes to moving the crate closer. Try and make sure you spend time every day with the dog. Even if it's just in the yard/garden fling a ball about while you have a coffee or something.

Is there anyone close by who would do an extra dog walk for you, so he is getting more exercise and attention?

From the dogs POV you have brought home this thing that's very noisy. It smells a bit like you. You seem to be frightened of it. He is not allowed near it and all of sudden has to spend most of his time alone, in his bed, bored and lonely while you deal with the noisy thing. You can understand why he's worried about it, can't you?

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AllIWant85 · 29/07/2012 12:40

Yes I can completely understand his reaction. Obviously I am concerned that he could hurt DS, intentionally by attacking or otherwise by being over excited. The other big concern is his welfare aswell. I've never known him not to eat and to be so obviously agitated constantly, I worry that I'm just as cruel locking him in a room with us when he's obviously distressed.

He loves fetch and we play it regularly in the garden. We can't out on walks as he has to be muzzled due to the dog aggression. I have Kongs which I stuff with kibble and some peanut butter, pigs ears which he loves as a treat and rawhide chew sticks which he won't eat but loves to play with!

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EasyToEatTiger · 29/07/2012 13:33

The dog will eat again when he's hungry and things have settled down a bit. As long as he is drinking, he'll be fine. It sounds as though you're doing a great job with the games and the treats. These can be very useful tools for distraction. Your dog is very unlikely to intentionally hurt a baby. Dogs have a sense of fairness, so it can be very important when you are with the baby to treat the dog as well. It is probably such early days, but a sling is a great thing. You can strap the baby to your front and do the dog things as well. Are you able to wear a sling? If the dog jumps up, it is jumping up at you, and then it just becomes a behaviour that needs to be dealt with. It sounds slightly as though the baby has arrived in the house and the dog has been ousted. We can deal quite easily with jealousy amongst dogs by simply levelling the playing field a bit. If you want the dog to remain as part of the household, you will find a way! Dogs and babies are not exclusive!

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RedwingS · 29/07/2012 16:56

Congratulations on the new arrival! And it's awful that the first introductions with the dog have gone so badly, but it doesn't mean you have to rush into a decision.

I'm glad the rescue has a behaviourist, and hope they call you back soon. If they don't, get back on the phone to them; and if you have insurance for him, check your policy because it might cover the costs of a behaviourist.

For now it should be fairly easy to keep baby safe. It's a big shock for the dog and a behaviourist will be able to tell you how to work with him and how easy/difficult they think it will be. Dogs can learn not to jump pet gates. And all the training can go to pot at times of stress, but it's still in there and will come back once the dog has had chance to calm down. Remember that lots of people manage to have dogs and babies in the same house.

Also, you've been through a lot recently (physically), probably need some time to rest, and shouldn't be making a decision you might regret at a time of a major change in your life. Maybe friends and family can give you a hand with the dog, or look after baby a bit so you can spend time with the dog (or just do some housework for you so that you can have a rest!). You have lots of options to pursue with a behaviourist before you have to consider rehoming.

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123caughtaflea · 29/07/2012 23:32

AllIwant, I send you all my sympathy. It is hell. I know. My son was quite a bit older when he arrived (adopted) and my dog had been my baby for the previous five years. A month in, she bit him. On the arm. With hindsight, it was a warning and I had expected too much of her in terms of accepting him. So yes, my fault. But she had to go. Before anyone flames me, because my son was not yet adopted and a looked after child it really was my dog or my son. The social worker was quite clear that were the dog not rehomed my son would be removed. So it had to happen. Fortunately, the rescue she had come from took her back and rehomed her fairly easily - just not to a house with small children - and six months later, when we were ready, they placed a JRT with us, who is, in fact, fantastic with my son. (An absolute whatsit for escapology as he proved again tonight, but you can't have everything).

I cried until it hurt and I was cried out, went to sleep, woke up and cried again. And so on. It really was a bereavement. But there was nothing I could do. As this is the doghouse and I know having rehomed the dog won't go down well, I repeat - whether or not anyone agrees, the social worker did have the final say and it was son or dog.

OP - you may be able to do something. You have had excellent advice here. But if not - well, it will hurt enormously, but it does have to be your baby first. I wish you all the best.

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TooImmatureTurtleDoves · 30/07/2012 11:50

OP, my dog behaved in a similar way - he's a whippet-Staffie cross, first day DD came home, she cried and he jumped up beside me and got hold of the foot of her babygro (which luckily was a bit big). We all shouted at once, which I know isn't good, (me, Mum, DSis) and Mum pulled him off. He then displayed fear behaviour - lots of high-pitched barking or crying. I was devastated - thought he'd have to go, petrified he would hurt DD.

We put his crate in our room so he could hear DD cry without being able to do anything, and he settled surprisingly quickly at night. A dog behaviourist suggested that we make positive associations with DD's noises. She said not to feed him a main meal, but instead to get some really good treats (cheese or chicken worked best - he completely ignored dog treats) and train him while DD was crying, while making a huge fuss of him. It really did work, and quite quickly. As soon as she made a noise and/or he got agitated, someone would get up and say 'X, time for treats! What a good dog!', give him something and then start making him sit/lie down/shake paws/etc. It worked on 2 levels - the food being one, but it also gave his brain something to do apart from worrying about the baby.

It was very, very time-consuming. DH or Mum had to be doing it constantly for the first week. Luckily Mum was staying for a week and we had a dogwalker who took him out for long walks, so at least he was getting plenty of exercise and was out of the house for 2 or 3 hours and the pressure was off.

Now, 4 months down the line, I can leave DD on her mat without worrying. The dog tries to lick her dry when she comes out of the bath and is completely relaxed. My only worry is that he's still a clumsy clot without much awareness of where he's putting his feet, so I need to watch out in case he stands on her.

Good luck, OP - PM me if you want any more details.

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