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How to crate train at night time for crate hating separation anxiety rescue dog :-/

(27 Posts)
Willowisp Tue 21-Feb-12 16:48:10

My mum has a rescue dog who appears to have severe separation anxiety. She is trying to crate train him during the day but has been advised by dog person 'he must sleep in crate at night'. So if he won't go in other than to get a treat it out, how is he expected to sleep in there happily all night ?

At the moment he's been in the kitchen, screaming for an hour & the other night he pooed in there. Whether this is right, I suggested he sleep in his bed, not the crate ( as he won't go in it) in her bedroom at night, just to build hid confidence (& also so that my mum doesn't give him back)

anchovies Tue 21-Feb-12 16:59:14

He definitely won't sleep in there happily all night if he's not keen on going in it during the day!

I would let him sleep wherever he is comfortable (as long as she is ok with it.) Our dog slept on our bedroom floor for ages until he eventually graduated to his bed in the hallway just outside our room. If she wants him to sleep in the crate at night, she needs to get him happy in there during the day first, how's she crate training him?

Avantia Tue 21-Feb-12 17:06:09

I wouldn't bother with the crate at all . Leave him sleep in his normal bed .

I do sometimes think this ' crate ' thing is over rated .

Got rid of our crate within months as dog was not happy - she was far happier in her bed .

daisydotandgertie Tue 21-Feb-12 17:20:39

Bin the crate.

Not all dogs are happy in them, and IMO, she'll stress an already anxious dog even further by continuing to battle on with it. Let the dog sleep where it is happiest and where is acceptable for your mother.

The poor dog may well have awful associated memories of crates; honestly, does the dog person who has insisted on crating got any idea of what actually happened in the dogs previous life? Kindness cannot be over-rated.

Willowisp Tue 21-Feb-12 18:09:06

Thanks, exactly what I think Ref the kindness. IMO he's a broken dog & will chill once he realises he's going to be ok. (he is 7mths old & has had 7 homes).

My mums concern is that he will chew or toilet around the house if not crated because he is wanting to be with her all the time.

Well her crate training consisted of leaving the door open & him ignoring it !

As from yesterday she was throwing bits of chicken in it, which he waswhoa bing & eating OUT of the crate. Hopefully from this morning, she'll be feeding him breakfast & tea in it.

Avantia Tue 21-Feb-12 18:15:18

oh poor dog - 7 homes in his short life - I hope it all works out for him and your Mum .

Keep posting in the Doghouse for any advice - lots of knowledge on here re rescue dogs.

daisydotandgertie Tue 21-Feb-12 18:29:45

Oh bless him. He has to be so, so confused about what's expected of him. Seven homes in seven months is just awful.

Of course he wants to be with her. He's trying to forge a bond with her, and hasn't the first clue how to do it. If you think about it from his point of view, nothing he's tried so far has done the trick so he's going to be pretty anxious about what to do to get it right this time.

I really, really think the crate should be abandoned as a bad idea. I'll lay money that he'll have very negative crate associations from the type of life he's had so far.

Your DM isn't planning on crating him during the day while she's at home, is she?

Can you not persuade her to just stop the crate training and listen to what the dog is telling her? He needs to be with her, to form a bond and start to trust both her and his new life. I so so hope she doesn't give him back just because she's worried he might pee in the house or chew something. In the nicest way, she should however have adopted a dog if she is that anxious. It's not fair on him.

Willowisp Tue 21-Feb-12 18:46:04

Yes, I feel terribly sorry for him. She wanted a poodle & as soon as he was at the rescue they phoned my mum. The after advice hadn't been great, they actually said to her, don't have him. I think she thought a cuddle & home would do the trick....

I'm very cross about it because she did no research into poodle characters & is saying he is hyperactive because he is jumping up for a cuddle. He was actually ok yesterday when she told him off the sofa & he fell asleep in his bed (not the crate).

I've suggested training classes to engage him, the trouble is my mum is all about the talking but not great at listening..

minimuu Tue 21-Feb-12 19:55:45

I would not write off the crate - many dogs with separation anxiety learn to feel safer in a crate than out in the big room however some don't. I would need to see body language etc.

Your mum will have to build up to leaving the dog and to seeing if he is happier in the crate.

Poodles are great dogs, very clever and smart but do have a mind of their own and will need to be convinced what is the right thing for them to do!

feesh Tue 21-Feb-12 20:28:01

Is this the poodle that was at the pound and they took him off your Mum for a week for 'training'?

Willowisp Tue 21-Feb-12 22:12:06

Hi Feesh, yes it is.

She collected him on Friday & whilst she's enjoying him, she is finding the crate-ing hard, along with his separation anxiety (won't go in the garden on his own).

As mentioned earlier,mhe wasn't going in the crate, but it turns out that today he has been in eating his meals in there (yay !) I think he may have also had a nap.

Tonight she is going to let him sleep on the bed so she can sleep & tomorrow she's going to her vet for training classes & also to see if he can prescribe some sort of calming solution.

daisydotandgertie Wed 22-Feb-12 09:56:29

Give him time. He's had an awful life so far so it can't be any surprise he's worried.

It took our old rescued golden retriever weeks to fully relax in to our house and she was 8 or 9 when we got her with only one home until then. Before that, she was very, very clingy; on red alert all the time and very quick to become physically stressed. There was no question of crate training her - I think she would have collapsed!

A good, kind routine will help a lot - and a bright dog like a poodle should pick up on it quite quickly. She's only had him 4 or 5 days - I fear she is expecting a bit much. He's still a pup and will need a lot of teaching before he is settled and 'easy' company.

Ephiny Wed 22-Feb-12 10:57:03

I wouldn't insist on the crate if it's causing him stress. If he'd be happier just on his bed I don't see the problem. Either way she needs to build up the time alone slowly, he will get there in the end.

He really needs time and a lot of patience, I think. It's only been a few days, he's just a pup and he's had so many 'homes' in his short life he doesn't know where he is or what's going on, or what's going to happen next. Once he realises that this is his home, and he gets to know his daily routine, he should start to settle a bit more. But that takes time.

I think your DM needs to accept that there may be some chewing and toileting 'accidents' to start with, that's pretty normal with a new pup (and indeed happened with my older adult rescue dog).

Willowisp Wed 22-Feb-12 12:10:34

this morning my mum rang me in tears....she didn't crate him & made up his bed at the end of her bed & gave him some chews. He was up & down throughout the night & when my mum got up this morning, he'd pooed in her lounge & the kitchen.

She says he has to go & that she can't cope. Of course I am very angry eith her & had a go at for. Once I got that off my chest (which I realise isn't very helpful ) she says she's made a mistake & can't cope.

I've offered to go down to her house for a few days but she says no. I've asked her to ring the vets for some sort of calming remedy (is it skull cap & valerian ?) & to ask if there is anyone who has experience with broken dogs.

I am on the verge of offering to take him & probably would but we are picking up our rescue dog on Sunday. (which is from a reputable rescue with at least 2 people on the end of the phone for problems)

I've ring poodles in need to see if they could perhaps take him.

I feel that if he goes back to the 'rescue' home he came from he will be shoved in a kennel. Am wondering where she stands legally with regard to a proper rescue home taking him where he will go into a home to be fostered ?

As Feesh said the rescue 'trained' him for 7 days & gave him to my mum. I have asked my mum what training it was & she is unsure.

Where does she go from here ?

NFTA Wed 22-Feb-12 21:10:27

oh no - poor poor poodle sadsadsad. Is he destined to spend the rest of his life not having a proper home with someone who can put in the time and patiencesad. Not dissing your Ma but this is soooo sad. I cannot bear to think waht the poor dog is thinking. I hope your Mum can get around this and keep him. for a month or so's pain she could have a beautiful loyal trusting dog as her companion. Please persuade her to keep the beautiful poorr dog. What must he be thinking? that humans pass him aroudn like a parcel. The rescue must be pretty shit if they have rehomed him to your Mum without assessing what she is is prepared to put up with. Poor pooor little doggy sad

NFTA Wed 22-Feb-12 21:11:58

he must be so confiused! I be tevery home ahs had a different set of rules and expectations. Show your mum this thread and let her see it from teh outside looking in. it won't be long before the dog learns to trust. by summer she could have it sorted and this beautiful dog could finally feel able to relax and enjoy his life

Willowisp Wed 22-Feb-12 22:01:58

Just to let you know, been a bit of a day, but I contacted a breed rescue who have been very helpful & have got a local fosterer to take him into their home. He will be looked after with 2 other poodles & a foster mummy who is very experienced.

The good thing is he is out of the kennels & with someone who will very hopefully rehabilitate him with love & kindness.

Avantia Thu 23-Feb-12 07:03:34

Sorry to hear that it ll went wrong with you Mum and dog, better news however on the foster home.

It seems a very strange 'rescue' that you Mum went to in the first place.

Hope it ll works out well for dog.

daisydotandgertie Thu 23-Feb-12 08:11:16

I've tried really hard not to comment, but can't help myself.

This behaviour makes me so, so furious. Poor bloody dog.

I hope your DM doesn't get another dog. Dogs make mess and demand attention, one way or another, for their whole lives. If you want a dog, you have to accept it. I'm not entirely clear how anyone can be surprised by that.

ChickensHaveNoLips Thu 23-Feb-12 09:45:35

We had Jasper at least 6 weeks before he was relaxed and knew the basic 'rules' of our house, and he was only 13 weeks when we brought him home. He pooed and weed with abandon, ate things he shouldn't have, cried, fussed, jumped on the furniture etc. It was hugely stressful at times, but worth it. I don't think any dog will come in to a new environment and instantly know how to behave or settle down. It might be best if your mum doesn't get another dog.

Willowisp Thu 23-Feb-12 10:02:20

It's fine & thanks for commenting & I agree wholeheartedly with you.

I have to say I completely over estimated my mums ability to cope & unfortunately she has no experience with distressed animals.

The rescue I called asked a lady to go round & I was hoping that she could help her cope, but DM was completely out of her depth. The screaming at night was too much for her & she didn't know what to do to resolve it. The various places she called kept throwing pack stuff at her, which might sound ok but when you have a traumatised scrap of a thing, the reality is different.

This lady spent over 2 hrs with them & poodle dog engaged instantly. When they left he literally skipped out with her.

My DM gave him a much better life than he had in those miserable kennels, she cuddled him, cleaned him up, took out his stitches (the vet forgot to use dissolvable stitches) & played with him.

The great thing is he out of the kennels & starting his little life with someone that can make a difference. The fosterer is going to stay in contact with DM & has said that it'll be months before he is ok.

ChickensHaveNoLips Thu 23-Feb-12 10:56:52

Poor little fella sad Glad he's with the fosterer, though, if she knows what she's doing smile

OoohMrCoyne Mon 27-Feb-12 00:18:10

We've had our rescue dog for a month exactly and it's been far tougher than I thought. He's hard work, needs a lot of attention, has issues to be resolved and can be very grumpy and snappy. But I love him to bits. Three close family members have suggested I give up and take him back to the rescue centre. It's tough and it sounds to me like your DM just wasn't prepared. Luckily the support of this forum, my vet and the rescue centre means that I can see a way ahead. X

AllergicToNutters Mon 27-Feb-12 09:40:30

well done ooohmrcoyne - hats off to you for your perseverence smile

Rebecca0115 Thu 27-Oct-16 15:49:10

I took my puppy from a dog foster home about a year ago. I love him to bits; he has a great personality, and I feel that he loves our family so much. BUT he barks A LOT. . So, leaving home is always a challenge for us.
My husband and I were thinking about taking him to 'doggy school', but then again, it’s extremely expensive, and the nearest 'doggy school' is far away from us. Maybe you have some advice? THANK YOU!!!!

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