stray dog and pups by my gate (repost from chat)

[fallenninja]

There is a box with pups which I reckon are a week or so old. The pups are in a box, but the mum is loose. If im a distance away shes happily nosing around in the box, if I approach she legs it to a few feet away and barks followed my a small growl at me. Ive not gone too close as yet.

Ive rang the dog warden, apparently they will only come if I can catch her as they cant spend their time trying to catch the dog. Rang local dog charity and have left a message, although last time we had a stray dog up here, they werent that brilliant.

Mum looks half starved, so Ive stuck some dog food and water down. Ive left the yard gate open so she can move the pups inside to the shelter of the stable (as its raining) if she wants.

Now what?

[musicposy]

Can you get some sort of shelter over the pups so they stay dry? I don't really know what else, but would have thought they'd be in danger pretty fast if they get drenched. Could you put a bed of some sort in the stable?

Sorry to be rubbish but didn't want not to answer.

[DooinMeCleanin]

The dog warden has to come out, by law your council must have someone who deals with strays however the last they need really is to end up in the pound.

Where in the country are you? We might be able to suggest some rescues that could help. Mum is just being protective, she is unlikely to bite you. If she was going to she would have by now. Leave food and water for her.

You really need to get the pups into shelter before late night and the cold.

[fallenninja]

Im in Staffs.

I said in my oother post I really would prefer to avoid the Dog Warden if I can as the pound has a PTS policy. Hmm the dog warden definately told me he would only come if she was tied up, especially because of where we are she could be gone by the time he arrived. Now normally I would agree, but there is a box of pups here and shes been here 2 hours, and it seems unlikely she will just disappear.

Im happy to have a go approaching, but i dont want to cause her to abandon the pups if i mess too much. How likely is that? The kids are in bed so I could go sit in the yard for an hour and see if shell stop barking at me. Ive even got a bone a I could bribe her with my dogs will be most put out if i give it away but this is an emergency

Ive thought about dragging the pups into the stable but I worry about her not following.

[DooinMeCleanin]

If you put some old bedding, food and water in the stable and leave it open it is likely she will take the pups in there herself.

I don't know any rescues in your area, but I am sure other posters will and should be along soon.

[notmeagain]

I would try dragging the pups into the stable and hope that she follows - if you also put down food for her that may help (as long as that is a safe option for the puppies)

Once you have her in the stable you can then fed her etc and work out your options.

I have lots of contacts in rescue if you need any specific rescue organisation to help

[daisydotandgertie]

I'd also drag the pups into the stable - if they're in a cardboard box, that's exactly.what someone else has done.

I'd set up the stable with food and water for Mum first and then drag and leave the stable in and wait.

The pups are too vulnerable to leave outside at night - and Mum sounds as though she needs some help too.

I would ignore the growling and just do it.

But also know not everyone's the same as me. Any idea of Mum's breed?

[DooinMeCleanin]

Unless the box is big enough for mum to get into with the pups she really needs some bedding so she can the pups out of the box and lay down with them to feed.

[fallenninja]

Right

Mum looks German Shepherdy which is why im now toying with keeping her, i already have 3, whats 1 more? She is a lovely looking dog. Bit skinny, but i reckon fed up she would be OK.

Have dragged the pups box into the stable, thought carrying them might be a tad too much for mum right now. Have put in the stable some food (dry and wet as dont know her preference) some water an old blanket and some hay so she can choose what she wants to have.

I have retreated to garage several feet away, and am here with my laptop and cuppa watching what she is doing. Photos of pups on profile, not very good though. Mum just watched me the whole time.

So far mum has still not come in through the gate.

[DooinMeCleanin]

Ach, one more would be easy peasy. You really need four, to even things up when your walking them or else on arm will become stronger than the other. Two in each hand will nicely tone each arm, she's doing you a favour really

Have you tried your local German Shepard rescue? They're Vallhala's breed so if you PM her I am sure she will know of some breed rescues near you.

[DooinMeCleanin]

Try here You might get some more help or suggestions.

[daisydotandgertie]

Well done!

Glad they're at least warm. Poor Mum. She must be so confused.

I'm sure she'll go to them - instinct is a very powerful thing.

I'm on my phone and can't work out how to see your profile bet the puppies are cuties.

[fallenninja]

They are lovely, but then I think all pups are. Look a bit like black guinea pigs though!

I just cant understand why someone would dump her. They obviously "cared" enough to leave her somewhere she would be found, but then why not actively source help? She must have been someones pet, she obviously has come from somewhere since the pups are in a box, someone hass put them in there and then brought her here and then just left her ... breaks my heart.

[Crosshair]

How awful that someone would just dump them. :(

[daisydotandgertie]

I just don't understand it either. But if an owner is careless enough to not neuter nor manage an unplanned mating then I suppose it's not a massive leap to abandon them.

It breaks my heart to think of the poor Mum. She probably had no care while whelping either.

Glad they've been abandoned outside your gate though. At last a little bit if luck for them.

If Mum doesn't go to them tonight are you able to care for them short-term? The pups won't go that long without feeding .

[fallenninja]

Daisy

I wouldnt know where to start, otherwise I would.

Im hoping shell come to them. So far she has stuck her head through the gate, but when my security light came on she keet running away. I turned the light off about 15 mins ago. The pups are crying for her. She keeps approaching then backing off again.

[misdee]

oh i hope she goes to them.

i am assuming that you are known in your area for your dogs, why else would someone dump a litter and mum of the same breed outside your gate.

[heggertyhaggerty]

I wonder if you could maybe go in the house for a bit, she might be afraid of you?

Sorry, probably nothing to do with it but it sounds like it's worth a try to let her get to them

[daisydotandgertie]

I'm sure she will go to them. Her instincts will be so strong. It might take some time but I expect that within the hour she'll be more confident.

Pups need feeding every 2 or 3 hours day and night - if she's trying to be brave enough to go to them I'm sure she won't abandon them. Sit tight.

[Vallhala]

Bloody hell you have a weekend dog warden?

Feck me, a rare breed!

Right, well done for getting the pups inside. Best thing I think you can do in the morning is get someone from one of the reputable GSD rescues to help out and to convince the DW that when mum and pups are secured THEY will take them on. If you'd like me to I can help you locate some people who will help and who are entirely dog savvy and decent (and no kill!) In these situations we are generally known to get a posse together :o to mount a sort of vigil, give advice to you and to help you catch the mum.

I just want to check something out, will be back in a few mos and will tll you how the law works then etc, need to check a few details and see what I can come up with further first.

[wildfig]

Oh no - my heart's breaking too. I saw the thread title and couldn't not read, but thank goodness it was your gate the poor dog was dumped by. I really hope she'll go to the pups. Can you tempt her in with some really smelly food? And then go inside for a few minutes to see if she'll come? Poor poor dog must be ravenous.

[CoffeeIsMyFriend]

UKGSD will have some people in your area.

Those puppies are lovely. Pretty sure her instinct will kick in and she will go into the stable. The pups will cry and she will need to feed them.

Good luck, and Vallhala will sort you out with a string of names of people to help you out.
If you were closer to me I would have popped in.

[Vallhala]

Good advice here re food, lots of it and as nurtricious and tempting as poss. Try some smelly tinned pilchards if you have any, or similar, in a separate bowl to other food in case she's fussy! thats pilchards in tom sauce with it all rinsed off, or in oil if necessary, also rinsed, not in brine, that will make her ill.

Lots of water too of course.

Poor mite and may the bastards who left her die a thousand deaths.

Then keep out of the way, downwind if you go back to check on her, less chance of her running that way.

Next advice is not to contact the DW further unless he contacts you! What a git.

I've just messaged a DW contact who is also a very good no kill rescuer for advice as its a grey area wrt the law to me.

With STRAYS it works like this:

You, the finder, MUST by law report the finding of a dog to the council. You dont have to hand her ovr though, as long as you:

1. Give the DW no reason to believe that there would be welfare issues in you caring for the dog.
   

1. Give them your name and address and contract to keep the dog/s for at least one month without handing or selling them to anyone else/
   

1. Give back to the owner if located and make reasonable efforts to find them.
   

HOWEVER, these are clearly not strays. Hence I've messaged both my DW contact and the rescue I help at who caught and took in (subsequently rehomed, legally) a presumed abandoned pregnant GSD. I THINK that they had DW involvememnt in this - if so they will be able to advise further, am waiting on replies.

Given that the DW is a git and the pound kills (find me one which doesn't!) I would say sidestep them as much as possible. If this were just a dumped adult dog I'd tell them she'd run off if contacted further by them, and secure no kill rescue for her (I don;t claim to do legal, I do moral, I don't advise others to follow my lead, this is just what I would do). However you can't claim this for a box of pups hence I'm trying to find the best, legal way forward for you and the dogs.

I would regardless seriously and strongly suggest that you appeal to the GSD rescue community (I have one in mind if it helps) to help catch mum and to help you deal with her, the pups, and the DW and law appropriately.

[fallenninja]

Hi everyone,

Thanks for the replies. I left her to it last night, and have just been up to check on her this morning and she is in with the pups.

She hasnt moved them out of the box, Rosie as I have named her has just lay on and collapsed one side of the box. The pups seem quiet now.

Ive replenished the food and water and she watched me the whole time but she didnt move from the pups. I talked nonsense to her the whole time. I think she listened. She doesnt look very old to me either now Ive seen her a bit closer up, between 1 and 2 probably (too young for pups any which way). I will buy her some sardines after Ive dropped kids at school.

Ive also designed and stuck a notice up on my gate asking for info about her. No questions asked. I hope although its probably not going to happen that since they left her by my gate rather than dump her in the woods that they wanted her cared for, and that they might come back and see if she has been moved.

Val Ha hes not a weekend dog warden, they only attend during 9 til 5 Monday to Friday and they have always told us they will only collect if they are "tethered". I have the number of the forestry commision warden, he rang the dog warden and the dog warden rang me back (there were some attacks by a couple of free ranging dogs on dogs being walked by their owners several months ago and everyone kept reporting it at our house but we couldnt do anything cos warden was rubbish - Forestry Commision had some barney with council subsequently I think)

He offered to come and collect the pups between his normal working hours if they were still alive and then recollect mum once she had been contained. I gave him a bit of a short shrift if im honest, as that pretty much signs the death warrent for the pups doesnt it? If the only thing keeping her by my gate was the pups taking them away wouldnt be the best course of action would it. Im also suspecting from her point of view it wouldnt be brill either due too milk production! Im pretty sure he wont bother to contact me unless I contact him IYSWIM.

To be honest now shes here and shes happy in the stable im not that desperate to shift her on, so it gives me some time to contact some rescues (ill try UKGSD if they are a good place to start) I was worried about her being safe / pups dying really but didnt want to intervene if it was going to make matters worse for her.

[CoffeeIsMyFriend]

What you are doing is what a rescue would do. They would organise a foster person to care for dog and pups until they were old enough to be rehomed.

In my opinion - and I am no professional, just a GSD mum to 2 hairy babies, I would carry on as you are, make sure the mum is well fed and lots of good food, chicken, fish etc keep an eye on the pups, contact rescue and let them know that in a few weeks they will need to rehome the pups/mum. I know lots of people who foster for UKGSD and they will give you any advice you need.

You are doing a fab job so far.

[musicposy]

So glad to hear they are doing OK this morning. Sounds like you are doing a brilliant job! Keep us posted.