I want to report a breeder but how and to who?

[StuntCubble]

I went to see a dog today, choice of 2 six month old and ten week old. When we arrived the house (big and very posh from the outside) and walked through the door it was putrid, it was a smell like I've never smelt before. She had lots of dogs, I didn't see them all but saw 10-12 and some in cages with puppies. The 6 month old bit me and was very nervous and the 10 week old was very sweet but I couldn't buy him.

Breeder was talking about accidental litters and the last three litters were accidental and the bitch had had a "dry season" and she hadn't realised, one bitch was three and had already had three litters. Thing which was very worrying was that a lot of the dogs were related and if it were an accidental breeding how did she know that it wasn't a mother and son etc.

The dogs were weeing and poohing everywhere and tbh it seemed like she'd probably only let them out just before we arrived.

I left to think about it but knew I couldn't possibly buy a dog from her, when I text and I did say in the text exactly why I wouldn't be and what I thought of her she became aggressive said my children were awful etc (dc's were polite as could be and sat quiet as quiet whhilst I was there.

I want to report her to anyone who will listen, inland revenue, coucil and rspca but will they care or do anything? Dogs were fed and I guess basic needs were probably met but it seemed so awful

[StuntCubble]

Am starting to feel very bad for leaving him there, he was a dear little boy. But surely by buying him I'm encouraging her to breed more?

[ditavonteesed]

yes you would be, you did the right thing, he will also probably have no end of health and socialisation probleems from his bad start. I dont know who you can reprt to but others on here do and I am sure they will let you know. if not the rspca seems a good place to start. You did the right thing although I can understad how distressing it must be.

[chickchickchicken]

hard as it is to do, you absolutely did the right thing by not buying the pup and lining her pockets. she obviously doesnt care for their welfare - as per living conditions and accidental matings - so is breeding to line her pockets. therefore if you give her money you are encouraging her. though i can completely understand why anyone would feel tempted to even take one away from those conditions

hopefully some of the more experienced rescuers can advise on who to report to and in which order to report in order to give the dogs as much protection as possible. i do know its not unheard of for puppy farmers/backyard breeders to get rid (by whatever method including death) of pups if they think someone is on to them. i have experienced this myself many years ago with someone near me breeding illegally.

[chickchickchicken]

for future reference please also do bear in mind that many of the dogs in rescue would have started life this way (if not in even worse conditions). they were once bought as a pet by people who wanted a dog and either didnt care where it came from as long as the price is right or did care but couldnt walk away without taking a pup. please do consider a rescue dog if you can. lots of people on here can recommend reputable rescues who will assess dog's temperament and health. they will also ensure dog is vaccinated and neutered and will crucially give you support for the dog's entire lifetime (something obviously this type of so called breeder wouldnt care about)

[StuntCubble]

Thank you.

I would consider a rescue but, the one close to us wouldn't consider us as we have young children. It's a shame in a way as I'm so often home and do have the time etc. So sadly I'm limited to buying a puppy/dog.

So is RSPCA a good call, I'm starting to think they probably won't do much but possibly the council may be interested and the tax man?

[ripstheirthroatoutliveupstairs]

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/_chat/1256549-Any-point-in-reporting-this-dog-breeder-or-will-sod-all-be-done
Have a look at that thread.

[StuntCubble]

Thank you Rips

[Vallhala]

Hi Stunt. I'm a rescuer who has reported a few like this. ScuttleButter's our expert on the issue so if she doesn't spot your thread I'd ask you to pm her to get her advice but in the meantime I'll do my best.

Firstly, report all you know to the breeder's local council and to Trading Standards. Ask to speak to the licensing manager at the council rather than the general office staff there and then follow up with an email to confirm all that you've said and they've told you they'll do, together with a request that they inform you of the results of their investigation. It may help to jot down how many litters you saw, how many dogs and bitches, the number of litters born to each bitch that you know of and when/over what period and the ages of the dogs concerned.

By law anyone who breeds more than 4 litters in any 12 month period MUST be registered with the council and licensed and no bitch may be bred from before the age of 12 months, she may not be bred from more than 6 times and she must not have another litter within 12 months of having the last. All pups MUST be vaccinated and they may not leave the mother until they are at least 8 weeks old so if you think any of this is being breached please emphasise it.

The RSPCA? I think they're crap, as do many, if not most independent rescuers but nonetheless please do report though they may well tell you to contact the relevent council.

And yes, contact the tax office and report this as it may well be an undeclared income.

Also put in a FOI request to the council for information on the breeder - ScuttleButter is again the lady to advise further on that.

Finally for now, I've learned various ways of checking up on such breeders and tracing adverts of pups for sale etc as evidence. If you're happy to do so please pm me with the breeders name, address, home and mobile numbers and email address and I'll see what I can find out for you. Then it's up to you whether you'd like to use that to add to what you tell the council or whether you'd prefer me to do it, happy to do so if that's what you want.

HTH and hope the breeder rots in hell!

[Vallhala]

Oh and PS, although your local rescue doesn't rehome to those with children there are plenty who do and who will rehome further afield. Do please have a Google search or let me know where you are roughly and I'lll do my best to suggest some. Smaller independent rescues are your best bet, they are often far more flexible than the big ones.

[silentcatastrophe]

If you are getting a rescue dog, it is really well worth talking to the centre about what you expect from it, especially regarding children. Only one of our 3 dogs tolerates children so we do not expect dogs to get on with little ones. It may apear obvious that you want a dog to get on with your children, but who is the dog for? If you are going to be the one who trains it, feeds it, walks it, and takes responsibility for it, and do not expect your children to do those things, you may find the rescue centres a bit more lenient. Children are a great unknown to many dogs, and rescue centres try very hard to make sure the dog goes to a suitable home and doesn't come back because it's chomped someone. I hope you find the dog for you!

[StuntCubble]

Well she mentioned the last 3 litters that were an accident and there was a litter of v young pups. And she also bred a different breed so I'd say she definitely exceeds the four litters a year. None were vaccinated, even the 6 month old. All had fleas. They could be kc registered but she offered them for less without papers, I guess that means there is no paper trail proof? I'd happily provide you with her address and telephone number (it's a mobile)

[Vallhala]

For the average licensing officer yes, the lack of a paper trail is a nuisance BUT that just means that he'll have to pull his finger out, carry out an inspection and find other ways to check the woman out. The way to ensure this, I'm learning, is to be a bloody nuisance and pester the council office!

As far as a "good" breeder is concerned please bear in mind that KC reg means absolutely nothing - 90% of puppy farmed pups and dogs are KC reg. "KC accredited", which is the latest KC fad, means nothing either, sadly.

[alice15]

And if she offered them for less without papers, the likelihood is that she just registers some of her litters and matches up puppies with any old papers when she feels the need, rather than the papers actually being a proper record of the pedigree and generations of careful breeding, as you would get from a quality breeder. Sadly. I've seen plenty of puppies brought in for vaccination which clearly aren't the age they were sold as (one can age them quite accurately by the teeth, up to the age of 6 or 7 months).

It is a nightmare for the novice to sort the good from the bad when buying a puppy. Some of the apparent indicators can have exceptions. Good breeders can sometimes have quite a lot of dogs, if they have the kennel staff to help with them, and can sometimes have more than one breed (if somebody is pursuing a serious "career" in dog show judging at the highest levels, they often will have a small number of dogs of a very different type from their main type, to broaden their experience of a variety of groups). And, as Val says, KC registration is no guarantee of anything, although I wouldn't touch a pedigree puppy that wasn't KC registered with a bargepole, myself.

The big things that any good breeder will do are - do something else with their dogs other than breed - eg show, agility - so they are breeding primarily to keep their line going for the something else; carry out the recommended health testing for their breed as listed on the KC website; keep the dogs clean and flea free (although anyone with lots of dogs will get the odd flea around sometimes, even if (ahem) they are a vet themselves); breed rarely; belong to the breed club/s for their breed; and ask you lots of questions. And have relatives available for viewing.

It would be worth telling the KC as well as the people listed above, if at least some of them are KC registered. They probably won't do anything, and you will probably only get through to someone in a call centre, but to be fair, if they don't know what's going on, they can't even pretend to try to do anything about it. Well done for being so responsible and sensible, by the way!

[Piffle]

The Tax Office is one place to report them to...
often gets results quicker...

[AllOverIt]

Did you have any joy reporting her?

[BeccaMar]

I bought a puppy two weeks ago from a similar environment.

Tillie was advertised for a "quick sale" via social media. Allegedly flead and wormed. I paid £350 for the advertised Jack Russel Poodle.

On taking her to the vets the next day, she was riddled with worms, lousy with fleas, underweight, small for her age, and hadn't been microchipped or vaccinated. The vet advised the pup was mis-sold as a poodle cross, and is more likely a jack Russell terrier.

The breeder has blocked me and refuses to give more information.

How do I get this investigated officially?

[bunnygeek]

BeccaMar call the RSPCA and report the conditions, especially as you have the breeder's address. If you suspect she was regularly breeding and this wasn't a one off, call Trading Standards also.

[BeccaMar]

The RSPCA aren't particularly forthcoming or useful... I have reported the individual to HMRC as obviously they aren't registered or licensed breeders, and will not be declaring the additional income.

[Toomanyweeds]

HMRC is a good call. Also council and Trading Standards as above.

Did you see the mum? What condition was she in?

Do you have a local FB group or group for dog lovers in your area? Would you consider naming and shaming the breeder?

[bearsdaughter]

also interested in this thread-copious breeding/selling of bought in puppies happening near me.. :(