genuine question about buying dogs off the internet/from the paper

[OracleInaCoracle]

We are on holiday in wales at the moment, and I have persuaded dh that we need another dog but we've agreed that we will wait til christmas (present for ds and gives us time to redo the garden and make sure that its puppy-safe and not just dim and slightly lazy benji-safe) anyway, seems like on every road there is a sign up advertising puppies for sale.

Now, I don't care about pedigree, in fact, I would rather have a spaniel cross (still trying to persuade dh that we would be better getting a young rescue dog) than a kc reg. Surely its better to get these poor pups into a stable loving home, than leave them there? There are always people who don't neuter their dogs/bitches and end up with puppies they don't want. These dogs need homes, why is it so bad to give them one?

I'm genuinely interested. My mil bought her old dog from a puppy farm (which she reported when she got home) and she just wanted to get lucy away from there and into a warm bed with lots of love.

[Tchootnika]

ISWYM (sort of) about buying out of sympathy... But surely if you do this you're supporting irresponsible breeders, who are just going to produce more puppies to be sold, so you'll actually exacerbate the problem.

Many rescue centres also have puppies they're trying to rehome.

FWIW, our rescue dog was abandoned by an owner who'd almost certainly tried to use her for breeding - as, I'm told, is the case for lots of abandoned dogs. As one of thousands of abandoned Staffs, she was a death row dog (because of numbers, nothing to do with her personality, which couldn't be lovelier). Had it not been for someone at the pound who went the extra mile to get her to a rescue, then amazing rescuers - who are overwhelmed by numbers of dogs in just the same situation - she'd have been PTS.

I'd go the rescue route if I were you: you'll still be saving a dog, but without lining the pockets of a dodgy bleeder breeder.

[Tchootnika]

Forgot to say:
Saw her photo/profile on internet and fell in love... And she's great!

[OracleInaCoracle]

Obviously, it would be better if they didn't exist. I have signed several petitions this week against the local farms, but I just want to take them all home. A farm by us is selling kc reg springers at £400 a pup, there are 8 of them. But what would happen to them if they didn't sell?

[OracleInaCoracle]

Oooh, a local rescue has a 2yo springer dog at the moment, wish I could take him now

[OracleInaCoracle]

Oooh, a local rescue has a 2yo springer dog at the moment, wish I could take him now

[Tchootnika]

• if they didn't sell? Good question... You'd need to ask breeders (sorry if I sound trite!)
  

Wouldn't convince me, though. I'd be thinking:
(a) If homes are guaranteed - no problem;
(b) If dogs are being bred at risk of some horrid fate if they're not bought, all the more reason to avoid encouraging those sorts of breeders.

[Tchootnika]

x-post!
Good news (sort of, IYSWIM) re. rescue, though.
Are there specific spaniel rescue organisations? You could be in luck later on if so?

[Joolyjoolyjoo]

Thing is, lissielou, if they DO sell, that farmer will probably get the poor bitch in pup again ASAP, to get more money . I do understand that you worry about the pups, but they would probably just be abandoned and end up in rescue anyway- I'd rather that than some puppy farmer makes £2000 off the poor bitch bred to within an inch of her life

The fewer people buy from puppy farmers, the less attractive breeding will be to them. so definitely support the rescue organisations, who will also help have the dog neutered/ vaccinated, and many will take the dog back if there is a problem, unlike the unscrupulous puppy farmers.

[OracleInaCoracle]

I know, I'm really torn on this, because I loathe the puppy farming trade, and it breaks my heart to see all the dogs who have been abandoned/mistreated/pupped almost to death. But I would rather they found safe, loving homes than the alternative. If I had my way we would have a housefull.

[OracleInaCoracle]

I know, I'm really torn on this, because I loathe the puppy farming trade, and it breaks my heart to see all the dogs who have been abandoned/mistreated/pupped almost to death. But I would rather they found safe, loving homes than the alternative. If I had my way we would have a housefull.

[Tchootnika]

lissielou - in that case, support rescue centres who are already saving dogs bred to exhaustion/abandoned by puppy farmers.
That way you'll be doing good without also supporting/encouraging overbreeding.

[OracleInaCoracle]

I am pushing rescue centres at dh over breeders. We will get our dog from roden if I get my way, I see what you mean about by buying from them you are encouraging it. That is the last thing I want to do.

[OracleInaCoracle]

I am pushing rescue centres at dh over breeders. We will get our dog from roden if I get my way, I see what you mean about by buying from them you are encouraging it. That is the last thing I want to do.

[Tchootnika]

Goood!
Worth pointing out also that often puppy farm puppies' health isn't that great (poorly nourished breeding bitches whose systems haven't been allowed to recover between one litter and the next. ).
I've heard that there can be issues with their connecting people, too, as they tend to be in pens too long without human contact.

(Obviously there's also the possibility that the above could be true of a rescue dog, but at least rescue centres will be more likely to be honest about any issues the dog has, will advise and support you if possible in trying to address them, and won't take your money for profit.)

[mymumdom]

Puppy farm puppies are often badly bred( increased chance health problems later on), poorly nourished and badly socialised.
If everyone steered clear, the breeders would stop doing it, but people thinking the way you do and buying puppies because they feel sorry for them make it worth their while :(

[chickchickchicken]

totally agree with mymumdom

would also add if you love animals/dogs dont contribute in any way to their suffering. the kindest thing you can do if you come across a puppy farm is to report them. handing over money will only encourage them to continue

[DogsBestFriend]

Lissie, as has been said, by buying from these bastards you're encouraging them to breed from the same bitch in another 6 months time. And then again, six months after that. And again six months later...

You're also condoning the culture of puppy farming. Far better that when someone who might also be considering having a dog is told that your pooch came from a rescue or even (if you must, I say this begrudgingly) from a reputable breeder via the breed club than you bought him from some bod on a farm who kept him and his mum in a shed... because chances are that someone will go off in search of one from the same source, thinking they are helping or even out of purely selfish, cost reasons.

Very often puppy farmed dogs which don't sell end up at Many Tears Rescue, as do a large number of abandoned/unwanted ex-breeding bitches and stud dogs from these bloody places.

A dog from a reputable and responsible rescue like Many Tears will be assessed, neutered, vaccinated, microchipped and matched to the new owner and vice versa, bringing with him a lifetime's support and an agreement that the rescue will take the dog back should the owner not be able to keep him, even if that's in 10 years time. A responsible rescue will also home check which is as much for YOUR benefit as the dog's, so they can identify and iron out any potential problems before they start and assess whether the dog you have chosen is right for your family and environment.

Will the puppy farmers offer you the same?

[Scuttlebutter]

Please Lissie, engage your brain not your heart and DO NOT buy a dog from a farm gate. Do you really think for a moment that this is a quality breeder? Look at someone like Midori - she will have a waiting list for her pups before the bitch is even mated. No quality breeder would ever need to put up a sign on the gate.

Trust me, by giving these bastards even a penny you are DIRECTLY contributing to the ongoing saga of puppy farming in Wales. All you are doing by collecting the dog from the farm gate is saving them some money on driving it up the M4 to a service station where it will be handed over to a buyer who bought it from some Godawful website like Epupz or similar.

Let me tell you what I've been doing tonight. I'm currently collating statistics on Welsh Councils and their kill rates. It's miserable and depressing. For quite a few Councils, once the dogs have been in for seven days the kill rates are ONE IN THREE - yes, you read that right. Not all Councils to be fair, but a substantial minority. Just remember that when you are tempted at the farm gate. I won't even start on what a puppy farm is like in terms of conditions and cruelty - we'd be here all night. All I can say is PLEASE DON'T.

There are many lovely breed rescues and all breed rescues who will be happy to home you a beautiful healthy dog who's been assessed, neutered, chipped, vaccinated and health checked, and will give you full behavioural backup.

[Ephiny]

I can understand the feeling of wanting to 'rescue' a pup from a puppy farm, but I would not do it, for the reasons everyone has given.

One way to think of it is that if unwanted pups (and breeding bitches past their usefulness :() do often end up in rescue, then by adopting a rescue dog you are freeing up a space in rescue for one of them. So maybe you are indirectly helping some of those poor pups after all?

[OracleInaCoracle]

Thank you all, I do understand and dh has agreed to look at a rescue dog first. It just breaks my heart to see these plaques at the top of back lanes..

[Tchootnika]

It just breaks my heart to see these plaques at the top of back lanes..

I know, lissielou - it's very sad (and also, for me, very anger-provoking).

Please contact some rescue centres, though. There are sure to be several dogs who'll steal your heart. By adopting one you'll be doing it and other dogs far more favours - and making far better and more useful connections as a dog owner.

What DogsBestFriend says about talking about your dog's origins is so true, as well. My heart always sinks a bit when I meet dog owners whose dogs came from breeders/farms, and TBH, I can't help slightly losing respect for these people (I know this might sound supercilious, but it's my honest feeling - and FWIW, when people have problems with their dogs, these usually seem to be the ones).

[Pudding2be]

Hello

Op their is a springer spainiel rescue, but I'm on my phone and I can't remember the site. You could google it

Hth