Talk

Advanced search

How to stud a dog out?

(20 Posts)
MakeAnotherCuppa Mon 13-Jun-11 21:34:27

we have a king charles spaniel, had him for a few months now he is 11 months old and georgous! people we meet or speak to ask if we are going to stud him, he is our first dog, he isnt KC registered, not sure how to go about it if we were to stud him?

Pro's/cons, advise please, thanks

midori1999 Mon 13-Jun-11 21:48:32

Why would you want to 'stud him'?

Lizcat Mon 13-Jun-11 21:48:52

Mostly people who are looking for a stud will be looking for a KC registered dog and usually one with a proven show career. Cavaliers who are used for breeding ideally should have had testing for Mitral Valve disease, syringomyelia and some eye conditions (cataracts and multifocal retinal dysplasia).
As yours is not KC registered his progeny could not be KC registered.

MakeAnotherCuppa Mon 13-Jun-11 21:57:24

im not sure if we do 'want' to yet, i wanted to know a little more about it first as there are quite a few Cavaliers around our area that we bump into while walking and owners seem to ask if we have thought about 'studding him'.

thanks Lizcat for that info smile

DogsBestFriend Mon 13-Jun-11 22:07:38

Cons:

Your dog/his parents are unlikely to have had the relevant health checks. Neither is any bitch he'll service because no reputable breeder would touch him. You're opening yourself up to generation upon generation of physical and temperament problem-striken puppies. Cute does not equal good breeding material.

There are thousands of young, healthy dogs dying in pounds each year for want of homes. You will be adding to this by breeding yet more pups. PLEASE, if you do nothing else tonight, watch this 4 minute video. That's shot in Ireland but the only difference between there and the UK is that our dogs have 7 days in the pound before they can be by law, and so often are, killed.

Who will you sell the pups to? How will you check the new owners out? Are you going to sell to someone who will take that pup and raise it in a puppy farm where she is locked in a shed in her own shit all day every day and bred from every 6 months?

Is the bitch's owner willing and able to take a dog back - or dogS back - if ever the owner can't keep them. at ANY time in the pup's life, come what may? Thats what a good breeder does. That's what ANY responsible rehomer does and why decent rescues and organisations like the Dogs Trust, Blue Cross and RSPCA demand that you return to them an unwanted dog you've adopted, even if that dog is ill or if it's in 10 years time. Are you/they willing and able to take back a destructive, fear aggressive adolescent dog or one who is suffering from seperation anxiety and who howls as soon as you leave him, upsetting the neighbours? Are you/they willing/able to take back a dog who turns out to be aggressive or who has epilepsy and who needs supervision and expensive medication for the rest of his life? Will/they you still be there in 15 years time to take back a dog bred by you?

Are you willing to accept that the bitch owned person you stud your dog out to may be a puppy farmer? Certainly that they WILL be at best irresponsible - decent breeders don't just become that overnight and they definitely wouln't breed their bitch with a non-registered stud owned by a novice.

Are you aware that an unneutered dog, apart from being likely to add to the already unwanted and dying dog population, is more likely to stray and be lost, a bigger target for dog theifs (and dog theft is rife, see DogLost website for proof of this), is statistically more likely to be dog-aggressive and a target for other male dogs with an aggressive bent as well as being at risk by being unneutered of a variety of conditions including cancer?

Pros:

None.

Sorry, this is harsh, but it's a fact and one which rescue struggles with and breaks its heart over on literally a daily basis. Go to your local council dog pound, see the healthy young dogs in there who have been picked up as abandoned strays and who will be put to sleep after they've been in that pound for just 7 days. Look them in the eye and tell them why you're going to breed yet more puppies just because your boy is cute - though I'm sure he is - and tell them that they are going to die because you're giving the sometimes unaware and sometimes uncaring public the alternative of a cute but non-health tested pup brought into this world by a novice without the experience to get into breeding properly. (If indeed they should do it at all, which for the reasons outlined above I think they shouldn't although I accept that decent breeders are justified in arguing with me. As a rescuer I have equal justification for disagreeing whilst taking my hat off to the Midori 's of this world who do it the right way.

Neither you nor I can change the attitude of the uncaring who will buy a pup from the owner of the bitch in your situation. We can both however change the attitude of the unaware - me by explaining what I have above, you by not breeding from your boy... and that way we can both save the lives of several pound dogs, now and in the future.

MakeAnotherCuppa Mon 13-Jun-11 22:18:57

wow... ok.. firstly he is a rescue dog, it took us months to find our dog, not because we were looking for a specific type of dog (or looking on looks) but because we had to know the dogs history as we have two young children.

thankyou for your comment you have given me alot to think about

chickchickchicken Mon 13-Jun-11 22:23:15

one of my dogs is very pretty and i have had lots of comments similar to yours. even after he was neutered i would get 'how could you have done that without letting him have puppies first?'

the reasons i could easily make the decision to neuter and not to breed are all eloquently outlined by dogsbestfriend above

chickchickchicken Mon 13-Jun-11 22:30:49

if he is a rescue dog isnt it a condition of you rehoming him that he is neutered and not bred from? all rescues i know insist on this

searching for the right dog can indeed take months, quite rightly so when you all may be spending many years together

imo it is wrong to say you had to know the dogs history as you have young children. it is possible to adopt an older rescue dog that is suitable to live with young children and has been assessed by reputable rescue as being suitable. sadly when people think as you do it means they overlook a lot of rescue dogs

DogsBestFriend Mon 13-Jun-11 22:41:24

Cuppa but you didn't know the dog's history! How could you? He was a pup, could have turned out any way. Even with the best will in the world a pup can have problems whereas an assessed older dog without problems/with problems being sorted before rehoming is far more of a known quantity. Yes, problems with a pup are rare but they do happen. A decent rescue would have made you aware of that, would offer lifetime support and would never allow one of their dogs to be bred from.

It's for those reasons that I'm horrified that a rescue could have allowed a dog out to a home unneutered or at least, if he was too young when you adopted him, allowed you to do so without eliciting from you via written contract a promise that you would have him neutered and allowed adoption without following up to ensure that it had been done. That is not a sign of a good rescue, far from it. I'd be interested to know which it is from the point of view of a rescuer, so that I can ensure that I never place a dog in need of a rescue place with them. If you'd be kind enough to let me know (pm in confidence if you prefer) I'd be grateful. It would help me to prevent sending dogs to their rescue as "my" rescued dogs would unbeknown to me end up being sent out to new owners unspayed/unneutered and thus go towards adding to the endless, heartbreaking cycle of unwanted dogs being killed each week.

This is NOT your fault but that rescue is very, very wrong.

midori1999 Mon 13-Jun-11 23:27:28

For all the reasons above and more, it's a really bad idea.

MotherJack Mon 13-Jun-11 23:33:50

MakeAnotherCuppa.... I can't put it any stronger or better than others on this thread - just please don't stud your dog. the world does not need any more dogs who are not professionally bred. Really, really, really.

Have a look at my profile - have a look at Bear (RIP darling boy). He was a KC registered Stafford from one of the best lines possible 13 years ago. His dad had won the most challenge certificates of any of his breed, His lines were carefully considered and his mum only ever had 3 litters due to her truly considerate and careful owners who were delighted to receive Christmas cards and updates from their offspring... and yet he was cursed with trichiasis, lumbar sacral disease and several issues surrounding his gut, made worse by the medication needed for his lumbar sacral disease. For the last few years of his life, he cost me around £100 per month to keep him well and happy. And that was after considered breeding.... and yet people would approach me too and ask if I would "stud" him with their bitch. No questions, no nothing - it was just because he looked so beautiful <obviously biased grin>

Please, Cuppa.... Get him neutered and you will never have to worry about the pros and cons. Take the thought from your mind. smile

DogsBestFriend Mon 13-Jun-11 23:48:26

I have to point out here, Cuppa, that Midori, who has stated her opinion above, is a breeder. And one of the few, rare, responsible ones out there. We don't agree on breeding, Midori and I - I wish it wasn't allowed at all until we have resolved the problem of unwanted dogs being killed in pounds by the hundreds each week - but I do respect Midori 100% for being one of those rare breeders who will vet prospective owners, who has a list of them before breeding so she knows that they really want a dog and not that they'll just take one on a whim if they know their friend has cute puppies for sale, who will take a dog she's been involved in breeding back at her own expense even if he's 12 years old and suffering from expensive to medicate hip dysplasia and who will only breed from a dog which along with his/her parents and ancestors is to the best of all veterinary knowledge free from physical and temperamental defects AND who is a breeder who will only breed to imptove the lines of the breed of her choosing and thus eliminate as much as is humanly possible any bad traits or health issues.

I've given the biased, rescue based argument from the POV of one who disagrees with breeding. Midori has given the POV of one who agrees with breeding under the right circumstances and who nonetheless agrees with me.

walkersmum Tue 14-Jun-11 06:21:01

All of the above and are you going to mentor the owner of the bitch, help with the mating, keep the bitch with you until the time is right etc.

It isn't a case of 'letting them get om with it'.

I haven't had a dog at stud for quite a few years, it's a big responsibility. No good breeder would use a dog with no history.

Please don't do it.

CoffeeIsMyFriend Tue 14-Jun-11 08:22:06

I agree with dogsbestfriend and while I have 2 beautiful GSDs bred by a responsible breeder - they will take back any dog, vet potential owners etc etc (probably same sort of thing as Midori does).

Nobody in their right mind would breed from a non KC reg dog. And ifyou rescued him surely it is in your contract to castrate/spay your dog/bitch?

MakeAnotherCuppa Tue 14-Jun-11 10:28:37

ok ok im not going to do it! i didnt realise all of this and which is why i asked in the first place,

no, gettig him spayed wasnt in a contract - didnt sign 1 confused
we did go to alot of rescue centres that all did- we found it very strange that this 1 didnt, i also realise you cant no all the history however this pup came from a family with 2 children and he was great with them, so it put our mind at rest a little, we wasnt actually looking for a pup it was an older dog we were looking for but no dog seemed suitable, as we have children, alot of the rescue places wouldnt let us have a dog ,with children under 5 years.

we will be getting him done soon and we WILL NOT stud him.

CoffeeIsMyFriend Tue 14-Jun-11 10:31:04

Excellent decision cuppa It really is the best thing to do.

Sorry if it all seems a bit harsh, but there are a lot of passionate rescuers and breeders on The Doghouse who do their upmost to stop backyard breeding.

coccyx Tue 14-Jun-11 10:31:37

good to hear that

GrimmaTheNome Tue 14-Jun-11 10:45:17

Good. smile

Enjoy your lovely boy!

DogsBestFriend Tue 14-Jun-11 15:42:03

smile

And what Grimma said - enjoy him!

DogsBestFriend Tue 14-Jun-11 15:43:39

PS - from the sound of it you didn't take your dog on from a rescue but from a pound. Not insisting on spay/neuter and not insisting on you signing any contract sounds far more like pound practice than that of rescue.

Join the discussion

Registering is free, easy, and means you can join in the discussion, watch threads, get discounts, win prizes and lots more.

Register now »

Already registered? Log in with: