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I have just seen some footage on puppy farms. I feel physically sick

(32 Posts)
2T2T Sat 11-Jun-11 21:44:57

how can they be stopped?

DooinMeCleanin Sat 11-Jun-11 22:02:38

People need to stop supplying the demand for them by either rescuing or only going to reputable breeders. You never know if that cheap pup on gumtree is from a puppy farm. Even back yard breeders can breed and breed constantly from their dog and kick it out into the streets when its no longer any use to them. It's very sad.

DogsBestFriend Sat 11-Jun-11 22:34:06

Don't buy from anyone advertising on the free ads/Gumtree/websites like Epupz, which is full of dodgy breeders - adopt from rescue or buy from a registered breeder recommended by the breed club.

Do your research, know what you're looking for and what to ask -including appreciating that a puppy farmer will often invite you to a family home as a "front" for their business and may even have another dog in that "normal family home" to further the pretence that they are a nothing more than a hobby breeder.

Never ever sell or give a dog to someone you don't personally know 100%. Preferably, if you have to rehome, do so via a reputable rescue.

Neuter or spay your own dog, dog theft is rife and stolen dogs are sometimes taken for the purpose of breeding/puppy farming. A neutered dog is less desirable. Likewise chip your dog and never leave him unattended, even in your own garden.

Join the campaigns of PuppyLove and read up on what they have to say.

Education is the key. Tell others what you've learned. Put it on your Facebook, put a link to PuppyLove as your signature on your emails. You'll be surprised at the number of people who come back and say, "Oh! I didn't know that!"

Personally I'd also say don't patronise PetPlan insurance - they knowingly insure puppy farmers, one of the main campaigners against puppy farming I know has a file as long as your arm on this which they've supplied to PetPlan yet still nothing has changed within the company.

Report anything suspicious to the local Trading Standards, to PuppyLove and come back here too as I'll pass it on to the other campaigner who I mentioned above.

2T2T Sat 11-Jun-11 22:34:39

It is more than sad. it is appalling. Made me feel sick inside. Those poor poor dogs sad.

2T2T Sat 11-Jun-11 22:38:17

OMG MY cat is insured with PetPlan!!! I cannot believe that this has not been made illegal. I was kind of aware of puppy farming but not aware of the extentto which these poor dogs and bitches are made to suffer. i saw one video (amongst others) of what looked like cocker or springers charging around a concrete enclosure in their own mess - clearly driven mad with lonliness and frustration. I feel awful.

thebestisyettocome Sat 11-Jun-11 22:43:15

I fostered a dog who'd been a breeding machine as soon as she was able to have pups. She was a brilliant dog and is now enjoying a great life as a family pet. The breeders look reputable on their website and have a good track record in the show ring but in reality they didn't tell people they farmed the dog off to be looked after by an acquintance and bred from her at every available opportunity.

I have also more recently had a pup from a small breeder who is registered etc. She has my dog's mum and grandma living with her and breeds very infrequently. She looks a lot less professional than the breeder I've mentioned above but imo she was a lot more reputable. The point I'm trying to make is that you have to use your common sense/instinct etc.

Am I right in thinking that puppy farming was a government initiative at one time, introduced to provide farmers with an extra income stream?

DogsBestFriend Sat 11-Jun-11 22:53:43

In Wales yes that was the case, best, not sure of elsewhere tbh. The idea was that farmers were given susidies to diversify. ScuttleButter is your expert here, she'll know far more than I can tell you.

It's common amongst puppy farmers for more than one family member to be involved as a way of getting around the laws on needing to be registered as a breeder is required to be registered if they have 5 litters or more in any 12 month period. This however is illegal as any family practising this type of breeding is considered in law to be just ONE commercial organisation even if the sale of pups or breeding itself takes place at more than one address.

Often these thick bastards people are caught out by the simple expedient of Googling their phone number. Go, for example, onto epupz, pick a few breeders' numbers out and Google. See how many who are advertising one breed on epupz are also advertising any number of other breeds elsewhere on the net. Anyone who is selling a variety of different breeds is NOT to be trusted and certainly not to be bought from and encouraged.

thebestisyettocome Sat 11-Jun-11 22:57:11

Yes, I think it was Wales. But them they ship these poor souls out all over the place sad

Scuttlebutter Sat 11-Jun-11 23:01:24

Puppy farming is rife in Wales (to my shame). There are some slow moves afoot to change legislation in Wales tightening the licensing for breeders, but it has been opposed by among others, the Kennel Club. I have been closely involved in a lot of the preliminary work earlier this year - unfortunately we were quite close to getting some legislation and time ran out. Now we have a new Govt. in Wales and the whole thing is back to square one.

Others have already covered the main points, so I won't repeat them, except to say that until you have seen (and smelled angry )how bitches are being forced to live, just so someone can have some cheap pups, it's difficult to describe just how depressing, sad and anger inducing the situation is. It is also not helped by very poor enforcement by Welsh local authorities.

There was some Govt money available to farmers (for building conversion and so on) as part of a rural diversification package of grant support but I believe that has now been withdrawn. Sadly, a recent planning application for a puppy farm building actually used the rural diversification/job creation argument in favour of the application.

I cannot repeat enough though that puppy farming could end tomorrow if the market for these dogs dried up. Every time I see a thread on MN about how someone has just bought a pup my heart sinks and I wonder where it came from, and if the person who bought it knows. I'd endorse the point made above about dogs being farmed out to "beard" families - I actually know several people who do this - it's a nice source of untaxed income for all concerned and also spreads around the attention thus minimising the likelihood of HMRC being involved. Let's not forget, £100 in cash is a lot to someone who is on benefits or struggling on a low income as a single mum - the temptations are very strong.

DogsBestFriend Sat 11-Jun-11 23:07:18

See? Told you that ScuttleButter was the resident expert! smile

I've never heard the expression "beard" families and out of context wouldn't have understood it. <<thick emoticon>> Where did that come from, out of interest? confused

Scuttlebutter Sat 11-Jun-11 23:27:29

Hijacked from mainstream culture where not out gays would have a "Beard" boy/girl friend to appear straight.

DogsBestFriend Sun 12-Jun-11 00:03:38

Blimey, you learn something every day! I'm the mum of teens, they're the self-proclaimed experts in all the new terms but that's a new one on me!

Scuttlebutter Sun 12-Jun-11 00:43:53

<Scuttle is amazed to find herself at the cutting edge of culture, while being a middle aged quilter emoticon > grin

Of course certain well known film stars with very white teeth have beard spouses (allegedly).

chickchickchicken Sun 12-Jun-11 13:00:48

completely agree with all the above and the only way to stop them is for people to stop buying puppies. i have seen cages of breeding bitches and the horror of it will never leave me (and yes i have worked with looked after children and seen some horrific cases of child abuse but this is the doghouse so talking about dogs here. dont think comparing is relevant or helpful to either side of canine/human abuse debate).

of course the buyer will probably not see this but will go to see their puppy in someone's home. it was very popular to breed cavs, westies and jrts in this way years ago (dont know if still is). sadly any popular breed will be exploited

on a recent thread in the doghouse someone posted that it was funny to count how many posts into a thread before someone mentioned adopting a rescue instead of buying a puppy. not fecking funny for the poor bitches who have no life and would be better off dead than living in cages breeding litter after litter so people can buy puppies

this breeding world is a reality and is far far more common than the reputable breeder who may only breed from her bitch a few times in her lifetime and has a year long waiting list for her puppies.

2T2T Sun 12-Jun-11 15:46:07

it is just so awful. I see on Many Tears site they ahve lots of ex breeders needing homes. Many of them are blind and scared. I feel like I would like to take them all in and offer them love, companionship and kindness until their dying day. I know I could but as we don't have a resident dog I am not eligible. It makes me feel so desperately sad.

2T2T Sun 12-Jun-11 15:47:22

so if hyou saw an advert in paper from a private seller. Does that mean they are usually from a puppy farm???? Do the farms have people who are willing to knowingly advocate this horrendous cruelty. Please tell me this is not the case sad

Scuttlebutter Sun 12-Jun-11 16:56:16

Reputable breeders (like Midori who posts on here) only breed rarely, don't usually advertise and will have a waiting list of people who have been vetted and are waiting for pups.

Breeders who are only out for a fst buck (whether puppy farmers or BYBs)will advertise, often on sites like Epupz or similar, or will sell via a pet shop.

Nobody is willing to stand up to advocate cruelty - what you will see is lots of people buying pups who prefer not to think about where the dog has come from, or even misguidedly think that by buying a pup they are somehow saviing it, rather than perpetuating the trade. The farmers and breeders involved see the dogs as no more than a cash crop and do not represent the best sort of animal farmers either. The economics of it are what drives people - have studied it in detail and won't bore you with it here, but you can put up with a lot of smell for a big wodge of cash. Farmers also rightly think that the chances of being caught are virtually zero so there is no penalty for poor practice.

2T2T Sun 12-Jun-11 17:01:50


2T2T Sun 12-Jun-11 17:02:05

What does Midori breed?

DogsBestFriend Sun 12-Jun-11 17:18:15

BYB - Back yard breeders. AKA the bod down the road who mates his dog because she's pretty/should have a litter before being spayed/"its nice for the kids to have pups around"/his friend's got a nice dog of the same breed and he thought they'd make cute pups together/couldn't be arsed to spay his bitch and, ultimately, to make a few quick bucks, without any health checks or consideration of the stud dog's relation to the bitch/suitabiliy, and who will once he has your money generally not give a toss what happens to the dog.

As opposed to those who breed only after stringent health checks and with a similarly well chosen stud dog in order to improve the breed line, who will vet the new owner, take back the dog if ever the owner can't keep him and advise and support all the way.

DogsBestFriend Sun 12-Jun-11 17:18:47

ANd Midori breeds Golden Retrievers. smile

chickchickchicken Sun 12-Jun-11 17:24:18

BYB = back yard breeders
Midori breeds golden retrievers iirc.

best says up thread "The breeders look reputable on their website and have a good track record in the show ring but in reality they didn't tell people they farmed the dog off to be looked after by an acquintance and bred from her at every available opportunity. "

this is so true. unfortunately there is a misconception that a non reputable breeder (ie most of them) will somehow look dodgy when in fact they make it their business to portray an image of 'we only wanted to breed from her once before she is spayed, it was an accidental breeding and we just want to make sure we find good homes, etc' even to using a 'stooge' family for visitors to see that the pups were breed in a family home

chickchickchicken Sun 12-Jun-11 17:25:31

dogs best friend - x posts. i am just a daydreamer slow typist

chickchickchicken Sun 12-Jun-11 17:27:49

2T2T - with regard to many tears and the ex breeding bitches. why dont you contact them and explain what you can offer? are you near enough to them to suggest a visit and a chat in person?

TheMonster Sun 12-Jun-11 17:27:50

We got a dog once that had been used in a puppy farm in Wales. She was a wonderful pet. It made me very sad to think what she had been through before being thrown out onto the streets.

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