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Oh please help - I feel like a failure - new puppy has regressed!

(117 Posts)
Kingsroadie Tue 07-Jun-11 08:04:50

sad Sorry everyone - me again! So...puppy is 9 weeks old today. He had a good day yesterday but as soon as my husband came home he weed only in the house. My husband was taking him outside and he wouldn't wee (I told him he needed to stay out longer and say "busy" to encourage the pup to go - which is what I do and he does wee). This morning he got up with the puppy and took him outside and he wouldn't wee again but just sat barking and so he brought him inside thinking he was starving and gave him breakfast. But as soon as he finished or halfway through he did a massive wee inside. I can see the problem is that my husband doesn't stay out for long enough but it seems the puppy is reluctant to wee for him and doesn't have a problem for me! (Again, I am at home all day so deal with him most of the time).

But the main thing I am a bit worried about is the night. After a few rough nights in the first few days (we have had him for 10 days) , he then slept 11-6/6:30. However, Sat night he woke at 3am (my husband got in then so clearly woke him up) and last night he woke at 5:15 ish barking his head off. He had done at least one wee in his crate, which he has never done before. He didn't bark during the night but I was up 3 times in the night with my daughter who was teething and can only think I was so shattered I didn't hear his initial barks and perhaps by the time we heard him it was too late? I just feel like it's a massive cock up (I have read from other threads that lots of pups do mess their crates a couple of times) and that I am a bad mother!

He did a poo but not a wee outside and then my husband put him back in crate where he barked for approx 30 mins. (Am starting to get concerned about the neighbours as they will definitely hear him!). He clearly didn't need the loo but wanted our attention and to get up. Anyway he eventually stopped and then woke barking at 6:30. This is confusing me as if in the day we want him to go in his crate and not bark yet in the morning we go to him when he bars surely it's mixed messages? Is the way forward to set an alarm once so I let him out around 4/5am for a wee then back in crate (when he will bark which I feel guilty about for the neighbours as he is very loud) and then another so that I go down to him at say, 6:20 before he wakes and barks? All the grown up dogs I know just wait in the morning until their owners go down (within reason) but am sure that's something that comes with age....

Sorry for the essay but just feeling a little despondent and confused! I am trying to do the best thing for him but just am not sure if it's working. Any help greatly appreciated - thanks a lot.

PS. Can he have small rawhide bones at this age?

daisydotandgertie Tue 07-Jun-11 08:35:02

Kings - don't worry! You haven't failed. At all.

Puppies are hard bloody work, and just when you think you've cracked it, it all goes to rats again.

You are absolutely doing the best for him. And doing very well tbh.

It sounds as though your DH wasn't quite patient enough when he took him outside; and perhaps the dog thought the change of person was exciting and forgot why he was out there. It's happened in our house more than once. It won't be that he is reluctant to wee for your DH - maybe he was more distracted?

Can you see a pattern in what has happened during the day when he has a disturbed night?

About weeing and crying in the night. It is perfectly normal and I've never met a puppy who can go through the whole night without weeing or pooing at all. Some owners decide to allow them to mess in the house at night and the rest of us resign ourselves to getting up in the night to take them out. Their bladders and bowels just can't hold enough capacity to last that long - and their muscles aren't strong enough to control it either. They're in that need a wee right now stage and can't predict when a wee/poo is coming or hold it in for long when it arrives.

He's only been alive for 9 weeks. There's a long old way to go before he's that lovely dog who lies in bed waiting for you to get up.

Take a bottle of wine to your neighbours if you're worried about upsetting them - explain to them what's going on and that it won't be forever.

What breed of pup do you have?

Kingsroadie Tue 07-Jun-11 08:45:04

Thanks very much daisy - I hope you might be along soon! smile

Yes I definitely think my husband need to wait longer - I have explained this to him. I think he expects the puppy to have more control than he has and than is reasonable at this age. I am more realistic! And I explained this to my husband and that the puppy is a baby and would he get upset with our daughter if she did that? No, of course he wouldn't.

I suppose am just worried about making a rod for my own back/bad habits re the barking in the morning. Do you think I should do the setting alarm thing to let him out before he barks so he learns not to bark? But equally they bark for a reason - this is where I am getting confused.

We actually know our neighbours - we live in sw london so all terraced houses and therefore they can hear it. They have been very nice about it (they have a dog too) but I don't know them THAT well yet (ie we have coffee and chats etc) and I sent a text yesterday apologising again and explaining etc. She didn't reply but she could well have just been v busy - the first time I texted she was very lovely telling me not to worry at all etc. She is also 33 weeks pregnant which makes me feel even worse!

He is a cockapoo (or a mongrel in other terms grin) and seems pretty sharp in most respects. Hopefully!

I just get confused as I come on here and loads of puppies seem to be able to sleep through the night at this age - minimu has made me jealous with some of her puppies - think I found a thread where her 9 week old slept til 8am! And I think she said she never gets up to them in the night. (I think - minimu if you read this and I have got it wrong sorry!) She must be some form of dog whisperer I think. Suppose behaviorist isn't far from that...! Come and whisper my puppy?

clam Tue 07-Jun-11 08:53:40

Hi again. Ours is a cockapoo too! Lovely nature and extremely cute.

Kingsroadie Tue 07-Jun-11 08:58:13

How funny! When did you say you got him? Ours is chocolate.

Spamspamspam Tue 07-Jun-11 09:13:32

Kings reading the other thread from yesterday it sounds like you puppy is not getting enough down time during the day. My puppy is 5 weeks older than yours and she is an energetic dog but she also needs to sleep in the day, this has definately helped her night time sleeping. We got her at ten weeks so she was older than yours and she was quite hectic, particularly the first sunday we got her she had a dreadful night. I might try and pull up my thread from then, but I think this was also the night that I waivered on the going to her at night and she got me up three times and didn't go to the loo so definately was a bit worked up and wanted attention. When I looked back to what she had done in the day I realise this was the first day since we had her that I hadn't made sure she slept enough in the day, in fact she was pretty much on the go all day because that was the first day we had all been at home together and my daughter wanted to play with her all day!

Can you try and ensure he sleeps a bit more during the day? Relax things down for him a bit? I know you have a young daughter and it sounds like they are in the same area when you are at home, is there anything you can do to change his/her pattern to quieten things down for him?

My pup's routine is usually a walk at some point in the day - I change this according to my work/daughter's school activities etc. Puppy usually sleeps most of the day or relaxes with a toy like now, I am at computer working and she is playing with a toy on her own either in the room I am in or she will take herself outside and chill out in the sun. I will take her out every hour or so or when she wakes up for a wee/poo and I might do 10 minutes of training or a play around the garden and then she usually comes in and goes back to bed whilst I work. At times I go out and leave her on her own if I need to go shopping and she sleeps then. If for some reason I am out for the day she goes in the office with my husband and follows the same routine with him.

So she has a completely calm day. At about half four when daughter comes home from school she either has her walk or she has outside play depending on what else we have done that day, she might get a second short walk, this is her manic time grin. This is usually enough for her and she then snoozes all evening and goes to bed about 10.30 during the week 11.30 at the weekend.

Kingsroadie Tue 07-Jun-11 09:30:39

Hi Spam thank you for your advice - yes that's what I think too. TBH he just will not fall asleep by himself (well, very rarely) and I think I will have to put him in his crate to ensure he does go to sleep, otherwise he doesn't, unless I sit with him which obv isn't practical and I don't want him to only sleep when with me. He is in his crate now as he had a 10 minute doze (on sofa) and that is it since he got up this morning at 6:30. Nearly three hours later and he has been racing around like a lunatic and bashing into things. The crate books say crate before the pup gets manic and hurts himself or someone. He is making a bit of a fuss but hopefully will settle down and go to sleep. He seems to wake up as soon as someone walks past him (even if not directly past) and if the cats come past (they have to as their food is also in kitchen/diner and litter trays are outside which is only accessed through here too.)

My daughter is actually a very quiet little girl and doesn't try and play with him at all really. She is pretty self contained but all her toys (toy kitchen etc) are set up in kitchen diner and am not too keen to move them into the sitting room but tbh she wouldn't stay there by herself for long (btw open plan so I could watch her) but equally the puppy would howl if I stayed up there with her...

He has now settled down and is sleeping. It may be that I need to crate him regularly to ensure he gets enough sleep?! Why do I have the only puppy who just won't go to sleep by himself?

We still have another two weeks before I can talk him for walks but he does play in the garden (well, loosely garden, more like patio!)

i do regular 5 minute training sessions and do play with him to stimulate (and tire him, although he races around enough for that too)

Spamspamspam Tue 07-Jun-11 10:10:18

Oh I do feel for you, it's such a dilemma in the early days trying to work out the right thing to do isn't it?

Daisydotandgertie gave me some excellent advice early on about not overstimulating my puppy during the day so I feel a bit mean that I was so defensive on the other thread about crate training - sorry DDandG!

However you have a bit of a catch 22 here...your pup really does need some down time and it seems the only way to get your puppy some time alone and to teach him to sleep on his own is to get him used to being in the crate so he is not being distracted and stimulated by things around him.

Personally if I was in your situation I would try and crate him regularly at the moment so he can rest. I know DDandG's views about him barking and wanting your attention and I totally understand that in some cases you can get it wrong and scare a pup. But I can honestly say after a few times of just ignoring our pup she did just get in crate and go straight to sleep even if we were all about, she has learn't to zone us out grin. He sounds like he likes his crate so I don't think you have made him associate the crate with punishment or bad things, he just needs that final bit of confirmation that it's his place and he won't get hassled in there and he can totally relax by himself.

My puppy is fast asleep in the sunshine, decided she would prefer that to her bed today but she has taken herself to sleep, there are plenty of things to get up to if she chooses but she wants to sleep so she obviously needs it. She woke up at 6.30 had a wee/poo in the garden, had her breakfast, had another wee/poo in garden, had a play with my daughter for 10 mins, has mooched about a bit sniffing and picking up the odd stick, has had a couple of little snoozes, has played with a toy but gently, just mouthing it and has now fallen asleep where she will probably stay for the next couple of hours - just to give you an idea of the level of activity our pup has and she sleeps through every night. In the early days I thought that more activity in the day would result in a good's nights sleep but I was wrong as far as our pup was concerned.

Again this is just my experience - I am no dog expert (have allways had horses!) just trying to help based on what I advice I have taken and what I have learn't and gone through.

daisydotandgertie Tue 07-Jun-11 10:22:06

You haven't got the only puppy who won't go to sleep by himself! I've never had one that will. People laugh at me, but they need the same sort of management as a baby. They need managing and encouraging to sleep for their own good. A routine is really, really helpful.

Also - don't wait another 2 weeks to take him out. You'll have to carry him, but this is an ideal time to socialise him and get him used to short journeys in the car. The window for socialisation is actually quite short, so take advantage of it as much as you can. The more he is exposed to now (in short bursts, obviously), the more solid, happier adult dog you'll end up with.

Carry him to the park and sit on a bench for a while, to the high street/shops etc and sit for a while. Make sure he has met men in hats, men in helmets, children in a playground, busses, lorries. As much as you possibly can.

Don't miss this window if you can manage it. It's so very important in the development of a dog. It's the time they have very little fear, so are happy to encounter almost anything. Make the most of it!

clam Tue 07-Jun-11 10:54:22

kingsroadie He's a golden f1, 9 weeks old last Saturday and we brought him home last Wednesday.
For the record, my smug-fest has ended, as I just came home from a run (out about 45 mins) and he was barking the place down! Will have to run faster next time!

Spamspamspam Tue 07-Jun-11 10:56:25

We did and do that DD&G - as you say it really helps with routine, much like babies!

Not sure if you have any puppy classes near you Kings but ours said she could go from second injection, although a friend of mine tells me their village let's them go from first. We erred on the side of caution and took her a week after second injections, she loves the classes! We took her out in the car just up the road to the park then sat with her on a bench, we took her to watch people play bowls, watch tennis, watch children playing football, I take her out on bin day so she saw the bin lorry which is really noisy, I took her to some local stables to see the horses, took her to the local farm to see some cows, I even took her to look at some alpaca's. Whenever I had her in my arms she got so much attention from people - it really helped her confidence. Once she could go on lead I have been to lot's of different places at different times, some places are busy with walkers, dogs and cyclists and she has learn't to be with me and not go chasing off after these moving objects, some walks are in very quiet open land where she can have most of her time off lead. I have a friend who has a puppy and pup comes round for playdates, I have taken her to other people's houses who have dogs, other dogs have come here, we have had lot's of visitors including two young babies for the day on saturday the house and the change in her confidence is amazing.

What I do have to watch for is not overtiring her so I am very mindful of the clock, particularly on walks as she and we could go forever, she has so much fun and never looks tired!

She is allways keen to rest up once we have been out or she has had a playdate, usually she goes straight for a drink and then takes herself to bed.

Kingsroadie Tue 07-Jun-11 12:08:49

Thank you everyone - I am reassured that it hasn't all gone totally wrong!

He has been in his crate sleeping and we went out for just over an hour actually and he was absolutely fine when I came back and I came in calmly etc then after about a minute let him out and he did a wee straight away. Then fed him etc. He was excited to see us but is much calmer than before we left.

You are all right - I was beginning to think this but wasn't sure about crating so often when I didn't strictly "need" to. But actually, given he won't sleep otherwise, I think I do need to! I thought it sounded a bit ridiculous but actually he is just like a baby and gets overtired and hyper and needs to be put to bed regularly.

daisy - I do take him out if I have someone else here (and at the weekend) but it is nearly impossible to take him and my daughter out as he needs more than one hand really and she needs picking up and wants to walk etc. He has his second jabs on tues and our first puppy class is on Monday (have checked with the vet and so has the trainer - all other pups have been fully vaccinated), so we do that too. What are everyone's thoughts on going to other people's houses who have fully vaccinated dogs? Obv once he is off the lead I will take him out to lots of different places asap. As we live in London he will see lots of cars/buses and different people straight away. Our park also has diggers etc in it and lots of dogs and children.

Clam - poor you!

Thanks so much for your advice everyone - I really appreciate it and am feeling much happier!

daisydotandgertie Tue 07-Jun-11 12:38:42

Take him! He'll enjoy it and it'll help him learn to 'talk dog'. He can go anywhere you are confident is clean - and vaccinated dogs will be perfect company.

You honestly are doing so well. Puppies are bloody hard work and it does get worse before it gets better.

It might be an idea to google bite inhibition by Ian Dunbar before the nipping starts too. It will help you learn why everything has to go in their mouths and how to handle it before it starts.

Clam - don't worry about it grin. It is hard learning your puppy and working which barking is just because and which is for a reason but after a few weeks it sort of all comes good and you just know which is which.

All I was trying to say - clumsily, probably - is that very new pups are pretty defenseless and don't really do manipulation to start with and definitely not in their first week at home. Yes, they learn quickly, but not that fast!

I honestly believe that being gentle, calm and consistant is always good with dogs of any age and has got me fabulous results with my gorgeous black girlies.

Kingsroadie Tue 07-Jun-11 13:13:31

Okay I have actually already taken him to a friend's house with a puppy and an older dog and he loved it (both vaccinated). Just wanted to get opinions as someone I know was a bit worried about it for me.

Yes I have been reading the Ian Dunbar stuff thanks - he is already bloody nippy but I say ouch when he nips etc and walk off or cross my arms and look away. But I understand they almost need to mouth you a bit for you to be able to show them it's too hard?

He is passed out on "his" sofa in the kitchen now after an hour of Play and loo and food. I also got my daughter to feed him a few treats when I asked him to lie down / sit. I thought it might help him associate positive stuff with her and also that she isn't his equal and he therefore can't maul her, he has to respect her like he does with me.

daisy - a bit like newborns cry for a reason! I have seen most people have an "oh my god moment" when they first get a puppy. Thanks so much for your support!

He hasn't had a single accident so far today (I have taken him out a lot - wee after crate, then food then poo and wee and then 20 mins later another wee).

Kingsroadie Tue 07-Jun-11 13:32:01

And just quickly - do you think better to set alarm for say 5 am and take him out before he barks (then crate til 7) or Just go to him asap if before 7 (the first time - obv if he then barks it's not because he needs the loo) and take him out, no fuss etc then back in crate til 7? Thank you!

Kingsroadie Tue 07-Jun-11 13:32:35

That is, if he barks before 7...

midori1999 Tue 07-Jun-11 15:31:12

I actually think puppies are very, very quick to learn what gets them what they want, which is why they are so very easy to train when they are very young.

I would never, ever open a crate to a barking puppy. If he genuinely can't hold on (sometimes if they won't, the crate isn't small enough) then it's better to decide if you're prepared to ignore him and leave him to toilet in his crate, or get up before he starts barking and let him out to toilet without talking to him or making eye contact, then popping him back in. If you want to keep him quiet from toilet time until you get up, then stuff a kong the night before and leave it in the freezer, then put it in hsi crate with him when he goes back in. You can put his breakfast in it if you want and it should give you at least another couple of hours or more.

It is early days, so don't expect too much consistency, especially if this is your first puppy. The more relaxed you are about things the easier you will find it. I have to ensure my puppies, whilst getting plenty of my time and attention, also work around me as I have other dogs to take care of and walk and they have very different requirements to a puppy, so the puppy simply must learn to get itself to sleep, amuse itself, spend time alone etc at times.

It sounds like you're doing great so far, so don't be too hard on yourself.

Kingsroadie Tue 07-Jun-11 16:20:14

Thanks a lot midori - it's very useful to have lots of different perspectives on it. I was originally going to ignore as he has managed 8 hours so I thought well, he clearly can do it so I should ignore. But he just barks and barks and barks ever so loudly (neighbours - although they are very sweet about it and have a dog I still feel guilty!). And of course yesterday went to the loo in the crate too.

Now re kongs - what do you suggest I stuff with? He isn't great at them so far - tries a little bit with his tongue then gives up! And he usually goes for a poo not long afterwards so if I gave him it in his crate wouldn't he then bark to go to the loo?

I am a fairly laid back parent and my daughter is very good at playing on her own but the puppy just won't sleep unless I crate him it seems (or sit with him on the sofa at first).I tried the ignore him and he will sleep approach and it hasn't worked - he just ran around like a bat out of hell and jumped and barked and nipped. Splendid! I don't spend all my time playing with him but if I go the other side of the barrier separating kitchen diner from sitting room he goes right up to it and whines and whines... ?! Should I just do it and ignore him? Or give him a grace period as he is so young still and has only been here 10 days?

Sorry a million questions again!

midori1999 Tue 07-Jun-11 16:28:20

I would ignore any whining or crying tbh, but try and prevent it happening in the first place, so keep some spare toys that he can only have when he's alone, or give him a large, raw bone to munch on at times when he's alone. If he learns now that crying gets him attention then he will keep it up as a way of getting attention and he will be persistent at it. Obviously you don't want to have to leave him to cry, hence the trying to prevent it in the first place. Fine to go back int he room when he is crying (and that might stop it too) but I would just completely ignore him until he's been quiet for a while again.

It's fine if he'll only sleep when he's in his crate. It's fine to use it an somewhere to 'force' downtime. Again, just try and pre-empt any crying and give him something to occupy himself in there until he falls asleep.

If you're worried he'll need a poo after a kong, just don't put too much in it. You can smear a little bit of peanut butter or boursin cheese or similar around the edges and then freeze it, it will still take him a while to eat, especially if it's a large kong and a small puppy and he has to lick right down to the bottom to get it.

I wouldn't give raw hide to a puppy tbh (I am sure you mentioned it earlier up the thread?). It often causes diarrhea and is a choking hazard too.

Kingsroadie Tue 07-Jun-11 16:32:24

Thank you very much.

Have just put him in crate again as he needs a sleep!

Thanks for kong advice - he has a small puppy kong at the mo.

Useful re rawhide too - thanks. But I can give him a raw bone already? Great!

Kingsroadie Tue 07-Jun-11 16:33:49

PS - WOW I have put him in crate (threw a treat in) and he is now asleep. Within 30 seconds... Yipee!

Spamspamspam Tue 07-Jun-11 17:26:53

There you go!!! Well done and keep it up, you will find your life so much easier when you know he will go in crate and be comfortable and relaxed.

Kingsroadie Tue 07-Jun-11 20:43:59

Okay I don't want to speak too soon but I think we might have cracked the crate thing. He has been in several times today and has not cried once and has remained quite when we have either come downstairs again or come in the front door (we have been out twice today). And he EVEN went in by himself once for a rest. Good puppy! He has also slept a lot more today and I think I will give it one last chance tonight on the sleeping before deciding whether to set an alarm or not.

Happymm Tue 07-Jun-11 21:22:03

Sounds a bit of day Kings! Feeling your pain too. Our pup is also hit and miss with DH. She's still a little nervous with him, (though he's a big tall chap)so refuses to toilet with him at the mo, plus DH doesn't give her enough time. As I'm similar to you and with our pup all day, when DH comes home he is trying to make a fuss of her, is feeding her, and also lying down on the floor next to her whilst she snuffles and lick at him, which seems to be helping.

Think you're right with the timetable of crating. I was being a bit lax as was home so letting her sleep where she fell, but have the last couple of days been much more routine about it. And think it's true that like babies the more sleep they have the better sleep they have. We're lucky in that our puppy does go all night now without shouting out or toiletting in her crate-though we've made the space very small. I took Minimu's advice and after the first night just didn't go down to her and it seems to have worked <fingers crossed>

Let's see which of us has a problem to post tomorrow!grin

Spamspamspam Tue 07-Jun-11 22:20:24

Sounds great Kings, well done. I am sincerely hoping you and Happymm both have good posts tomorrow, however I just wanted to add one last thing...

Whilst I was getting myself, family and puppy into a routine I found I had good days and bad, much like babies you have a good day following a routine and the next day it all flies out of the window! Your puppy might be so rested today that he is a bit more energetic tomorrow and might not sleep as much so it will be a couple of days/weeks adjusting to exactly what he needs.

There have been two days when we haven't taken the puppy out and have only had garden play, once when she had an upset tummy and was tired and not well and another time when I thought I had over stimulated her the day before. The days in question were fine but the next day puppy was more energetic than usual and needed a bit more energy burning to keep her calm in the house.

I am sorry to keep banging on with my experiences but as a new puppy owner I like to swap and learn with others grin and just thought I would let you know what happened to us.

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