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puppy cries constantly when in separate room

(34 Posts)
Dru77 Sat 23-Apr-11 09:32:48

We've had our puppy 6 days now and she is happy sleeping in a crate in our bedroom. During the day she never chooses to go in her crate downstairs and if we try to leave her in the kicthen, even if we are only in the living room, she whines and barks constantly. We've got a plug in DAP diffuser and I know it's only been 6 days but we HAVE to be able to pop out now and then but if she going to bark constantly then how can we ever leave her?

I know we're supposed to get her used to being apart from us in small stages but she literally can't cope with being left for 30 seconds and we have neighbours! Advice is to ignore the noise but what if it NEVER stops, is there a cut off at which you should go back in and calm her down as she gets in a right state. At the moment we're tyring to get her used to simply being in the kitchen with a baby gate keeping her in. We don't put her in the crate as she's even more distressed if we do that.

RumourOfAHurricane Sat 23-Apr-11 10:06:07

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Dru77 Sat 23-Apr-11 11:20:02

The crate is in the bedroom because on night 1 we left her in the kitchen (didn't want to use a crate initially) and she whined ALL night. I have no problem with her being in the bedroom as eventually I would like her to have the run of the house (when we're at home) and be confined to the kitchen and part of the garden when we're out but I can see that having her with us at night is probably causing some issues in itself. We did try to leave her in the kitchen crate last night but at the first sign of whining we went and moved her to our room. I'm worried we'll annoy the neighbours and she sounds so pitiful when she cries (and it literally never stops).

New resolve to leave her in the kitchen crate tonight regardless of noise! It just seems counter intuative that the crate is supposed to be her happy place yet we force her to stay in it overnight. It is filled with nice things and kiongs etc but she'll go in there to eat them then come straight out. Currently curled up asleep under the dining table rather than in her crate.

RumourOfAHurricane Sat 23-Apr-11 12:47:12

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Dru77 Sat 23-Apr-11 12:56:19

She's 10 weeks and a mongrel (1/2 lhasa apso, 1/4 poodle, 1/4 schanuzer). All this reminds me of 'controlled crying' when the kids were babies!

midori1999 Sat 23-Apr-11 13:03:18

It might be that it's all new to her or it might be that she's very quickly realised that if she cries/barks then you come to her or give her attention. She does need to learn to be left alone and sleeping in her crate downstairs might help, but only if you are prepared to leave her if she does cry.

I would leave her crate upstairs now personally and work on crate training her during the day. Leave nice things for her to find in her crate but I would only give her the kong when she is shut in. Have the crate next to your chair if you need to. Get her used to you walking around the room within sight when she's in the crate and then one day try something new, tasty and smelly in her kong (Boursin or other garlic cheese is good) and casually pop out of the room while she's occupied with it. Just pop out for a couple of minutes and then whatever she's doing, just come back and sit next to the crate without talking to her. I would also always open the crate again before she's finished her kong so long as she's not crying or barking. Then, each time she becomes happy with you leaving the room for a certain time, just increase it a little. Once she's ok for fairly long periods try giving her something super tasty like a raw bone and leaving the room for an hour to read a book. Keep something that she's only allowed when she's shut in her crate.

Once she's settled when you're in the house you can leave her for short periods but I would limit it to 2 hours until she's older personally.

dittany Sat 23-Apr-11 13:05:49

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RumourOfAHurricane Sat 23-Apr-11 13:11:26

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dittany Sat 23-Apr-11 13:14:33

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minimu1 Sat 23-Apr-11 13:16:15

Ignore ignore and ignore it WILL stop - the longer you take to ignore it the harder it will be for the puppy to learn to be alone.

Warn the neighbours and ignore -I bet you she will do it for no longer than a few days if you do this.

This is not true separation anxiety but just a puppy that is learning the ropes. However it could easily turn into full blown separation anxiety if you react to her whines.

Dittany crates are fantastic things for dogs and if introduced correctly the dogs love them. They are safe places where the dog can truly relax it learns that it no longer has to guard, herd protect its owners. It just chills out totally and then is a much happier dog. Of course you do not keep a dog and shut it in a crate. It goes into the crate when it needs sleep and rest, so as a puppy quite often but as an older dog it wil go in the crate less but can be trusted to make the decision itself when it needs to chill out.

Wish people would get over this idea of crates being bad - they are a place of security for a dog.

RumourOfAHurricane Sat 23-Apr-11 13:18:37

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RumourOfAHurricane Sat 23-Apr-11 13:19:28

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midori1999 Sat 23-Apr-11 13:21:12

Crates are meant to be used overnight/for short periods of time to help toilet train the pup, as well as prevent behaviours such as chewing which could be dangerous for the pup. They also provide a safe 'den' or bed for the puppy or dog, where the dog is likely to feel more secure than in a normal dog bed, especially if the crate is covered over. They can also be used to keep a dog safe during car travel.

Crates aren't something to be used like a 'prison' for the dog, or purely for the owners convenience and they must not be used or shut the dog in as a punishment.

I only use crates when my dogs are puppies as I don't have room for 4 plus crates in my house. I have kept one up for the last puppy though as he is a little insecure. He spends almost all of his waking time at home in there (door open, it's only shut at night) and two of my adult dogs like to cram in there with him too, even though there's not enough room. They love their crates!

Dru77 Sun 24-Apr-11 08:31:39

Well we're abandoning the downstairs crate for overnighgt. Tried to leave her in it last night and she barked/whined for 5 hours without stopping. Finally by 4.30 am I went down to let her out for the loo and bought her back upstairs as I was so desperate for sleep. I know you're supposed to ignore them but for 5 hours whilst they get themselves in a complete state?

We made some small progress during the day yesterday so will concentrate on that for now.

midori1999 Sun 24-Apr-11 09:06:12

If you're not happy to leave her to cry at night, then gave her in your room. However, currently all she is learning is that she needs to cry for a very lo g time before you come, so you'll make her worse. Choose where you want her to sleep and stick with it. Glad you're making some progress in the day though.

minimu1 Sun 24-Apr-11 09:19:51

Sorry you have made the situation worse - you sometimes have to stick it out for as much as three nights but then that is it. You have now taught her that she can cry and will be taken out of the crate. You will have a crying whining puppy for ever now!

RumourOfAHurricane Sun 24-Apr-11 09:21:35

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RumourOfAHurricane Sun 24-Apr-11 09:25:56

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chickchickchicken Sun 24-Apr-11 09:58:05

<Choose where you want her to sleep and stick with it>

i agree with above. ive never used crates and am strongly against leaving young pups to cry so mine have always stayed near me. they are however contented older dogs (14 and 4) and are happy to be left. it really is choosing what method you prefer and sticking to that so pup doesnt get anxious

ScroobiousPip Sun 24-Apr-11 10:04:03

Blimey, this all sounds a bit like controlled crying for babies. Aren't puppies hardwired to want to be near their mums (or a mum subsititute?) for survival reasons? Why on earth would you leave a little puppy anymore than you would leave a little baby? Perhaps an older dog would be more appropriate if you don't want to put the hours in?

Dru77 Sun 24-Apr-11 11:47:38

But surely there's a compassionate time limit on leaving them to settle themselves? 1, 2 hours maybe I can agree with but with no sign of calming down after 5 hours? Should we have left her to get more and more frantic? She had already wet her bed by that point so is it ok to leave an upset puppy in a wet bed in the name of 'training'? What were we supposed to do in the morning when we got up, if she was still crying should we have left her in there until quiet, what if she NEVER got quiet, should we leave her in there for days and days? At what point do the neigbours call the RSPCA because if I heard that much traumatic noise coming from a house then I sure would!

I find all the crate traning advice in books so contradictory in practice; the need to take a puppy out for regular toilet breaks conflicts with leaving a puppy when it's crying. Which should take priority?

DontdoitKatie Sun 24-Apr-11 11:58:36

Why don't you just let her out.

Crate training sounds horrible, and totally for the owner's convenience not the dog's well-being.

chickchickchicken Sun 24-Apr-11 12:06:02

as long as you are consistent go with your heart

definitely take for regular toilet breaks after every nap, food, play, drink, every half hour or so. treat and praise with lot of excitement every time pup goes outside. at least in this weather you can spend most of the day in the garden and therefore be on hand to reward any wees/poos immediately

personally i didnt use a crate and i didnt leave to cry. both my pups were toilet trained in a few days so had access to us in the rest of the house from an early age. i actually think this made them more confident. i couldnt bear to see a young pup in a urine soaked bed crying.

midori1999 Sun 24-Apr-11 12:14:57

Crate training is as much for the dog's well being as the owners convenience. How many puppies do you think have ended up at the vets with serious problems because they have chewed/swallowed something they shouldn't have? Something that people assume is normal for puppies, but really doesn't have to be and can be fatal.

As for puppies needing to be near their Mums, I have reared enough puppies to know that Mum soon decides when she is going to ignore their cries and not go to them if they are crying and it's well before 8 weeks old. I allow my bitches free access to their puppies and by around 5 weeks they do not want to spend the night with or even near them and will often ignore tham at times despite that and they are all excellent Mums. I also crate train my puppies and make sure that each puppy spends time away from both Mum and it's litter mates, especially in the period leading up to them leaving me and given new owners advice on what to do when they take the puppy home (crate at night, preferably downstairs, radio on, hot water bottle in crate and blanket/toys which had been left with me to collect litter smells in there also) and not one puppy has cried for more than a couple of minutes of the first night in it's new home. I believe breeders do play a big part in how a pup settles once it has moved.

OP if you are not happy leaving her to cry, then that is fine, look at my first post above with how to deal with this and crate training without much crying at all.

midori1999 Sun 24-Apr-11 12:17:51

Just to add, I strongly suspect one of the reasons she is now crying so much is that you went to her in the first place when she cried, so have already made it worse for you and her.

It is very, very important to remember that puppies are not babies and do not need to be treated as such. An older dog with seperation anxiety is a miserable and insecure one and sadly (although I have no doubt at all you have the best intentions) I think this is what you are setting yourself up for.

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