Help me with my dog problems, they are many!

[SoupDragon]

Dill.
Cocker spaniel, show type
DOB July 2009

1. Fecking recall.
   He can do this beautifully. Provided there are no other distractions, in which case you can whistle as much as you like, he won't be coming back. I have spent many hours with a pocketful of cheese/chicken/bacon and a clicker. I am too afraid to let him off the wad on walks because of this and...
   
   
2. Jumping up at people.
   Few people are impressed by a wet, muddy, excitable spaniel jumping up at them. how do I teach him this is unacceptable? We ignore him when he does it to us so he gets no attention unless all feet are on the floor. Clearly there is more I need to do.
   
   
3. Pulling on the lead
   No surprises here! Do I just keep stopping when he pulls? This makes a walk tedious and unpleasant for the walker! What else should i be doing?
   
   Off to get him wet, muddy and (hopefully) exhausted [hollow laugh]

[SoupDragon]

I have been unable to get him to training classes as i have no childcare so have been attempting to wing it with a book.

[minimu1]

1. Recall - great he knows what to do and you have trained him well - you now need to do the crucial bit and add in distractions. This will take time and can be frustrating but if you are prepared for hard work and consistency it will work.
   
   Have you got DC's or someone else to help with this. Get one person to hold the dog and you run away yelling excitedly the dog should be pulling like crazy to get to you call the dogs name and come the other person lets the dog go. Do the same the other way around. This encourages the dog to see the excitement in the recall if you do this enough it becomes natural behaviour.
   
   Also once the recall is fun and fast again start to add in distractions so the same thing again but maybe have a third person standing nearby, the dog should run straight to you. If that is too easy have the third person playing with a ball, holding some food, with another dog etc.
   
   Being a gundog a furry toy may be the ultimate distration so build up to that - when the dog can be recalled from that you can move onto trying with the real squirrels and rabbits.
   
   If when out on the walk the dog will not come back do not call just sit and wait it out. You do not want him to learn again to ignore the recall.
   
   You could do this with a recall command or a whistle.
   
   2)Spaniels will often pull unless taught otherwise (what a sweeping statement! prepares to be proved otherwise by all spaniels owners ).
   
   Again you need to break this down. If the dog can not walk to heel in a calm boring environment then it will never do it when out on his favourite walk.
   
   I clicker train the heel off lead in a safe place usually the garden. Lure to the correct position and click and treat every few steps. When I introduce the lead it must be loose so if the dog walks ahead just stop and wait eventually the dog will look at you , click and treat and then lure into heel position and off you go again.
   
   The turning around can work but does as you say spoil a good walk. I train heel as a trick and do not even try to introduce it onto walks until they are good in a boring place. Once it is conquered in the garden try in a carpark, try down the street etc.
   
   3)Jumping up at people is this off lead on a walk or in the house? It is always the peoples fault here! If everybody would just turn their backs on dogs as the dogs jump up there would be no problem! But most people either fuss or say it is fine! When the dog jumps up turn away and cross you arms everybody has to do this when the dog is sitting then praise and fuss the dog.

[SoupDragon]

1. My children have greater selective deafness than he does! But they are very distracting so may be of use :)
   
   The problem with ignoring him if I've let him off the lead and he's not come back is that i am terrified he will jump up at someone. I think cracking recall is the key to his behaviour. If I can be sure he'll come back, he'lll be off the lead and thus not pulling because he wants to go elsewhere.
   
   
2. Nope. my childhood cocker used to walk at a 45 degree angle to the floor because he was pulling to the side :o No denials of spaniel behaviour here! I thought it was to do with them being gun dogs but could never work out why that would be a trait rather than learnt. Dill is really bad on occasions- when he sees another dog he wants to play with, he is pulling so hard he is literally bouncing aping on his hind legs. not good. The only time he's walked to heel is when I had a pocket full of bacon (he walked so close as to not move his nose from my pocket!) so perhaps thats a way forward along with the clicker and a more concerted effort.
   
   
3. Jumping is his natural state of being. As a puppy everyone thought he was a springer but I don't think this is what they meant. He jumps at people on the lead, off the lead, at home... At home it's mainly visitors actually. He rarely tries to jump at his "family" now. He just gets so terribly excited. Looks like i can only work on this one with visitors rather than random strangers at the moment.
   
   I am under no illusions that his shortcomings are down to me, I've just not been able to get a grip on these things. Its not his fault.
   
   I managed to teach him fetch and drop last week and he caught on so quickly. He went from fetching the ball and then playing with it by himself to twigging that he had to drop the ball by me to get the cheese in one session. I therefore can't blame his errant behaviour on the fact that he is all looks and no brain!
   
   
   Thanks. :)
   
   Now, if you could just find a magic way of stopping him from escaping from my garden, that would be fab...

[minimu1]

His shortcomings are not down to you. Instinctive behaviour is hard to change. I would not have him off lead for a while. If he is on a long lead and when you call do not stand still but run away you will become very interesting to him!

If he is on a long lead you can also work on the jumping up all four feet have to be on the ground if the dog is to get any attention at all. It is so hard as just one occasion when someone lets him jump up puts you back but do keep at it.

if you got him fetching a ball fantastic this can really help in recall. Only ever play fetch with him if you have called him to you. When out walking throw the ball behind you and then run in the direction you are going and call his name. This is a great way to speed up the recall.

Generally a dog with a dogdy recall finds it boring but if you speed it up it becomes more fun.

Do you have a play tunnel - that is another way to make the recall fun get him used to running through the tunnel then recall him through the tunnel- most dogs love running through the tunnel so will charge to get to you.

It will all take time and I would in your mind give up this winter to get it sorted. But if you do stick at it things will get much better.

Is he in anyway anxious about anything at all.

Sometimes dogs chase and escape because the buzz they get from running chills them out. If I have a real chaser as a client I would look at anything that may cause them stress, sometimes sorting this can help with the chase and urege to escape.

However generally a gun dog gets a scent and that is it!! Have you thought of getting into working trials and tracking - you would be the top of the class.

[iloverhubarbcrumble]

Hey soupdragon - all three of the concerns you have with Dill are very very common. Think you are being abit hard on yourself!

Our young springer (yes, another spaniel) - the pulling on the lead when we get to the park is horrendous. She has to stay on lead till we cross a road. Straining crazily, on hind legs, oh the sheer embarrassment as all the other dogs walk beautifully along. But she is great at walking to heel on the pavement, and sometimes at the end of a - hesitate to say walk - hurtling about session, she will manage good heel walking back to the car. One step at a time.

Think my main point is to thank minimu - I find it SO useful when you go through these points in such careful detail. Because of course it's relevant to many of us. Great ideas to try. And good luck soupdragon

[assumpta]

Soupdragon, I can't be any help as my Belle a 20 week cockapoo is doing a lot of what Dill is doing.

Minimu1 speaks a lot of sense! Other people are a nightmare when they meet a puppy. They immediately let them jump, mouth and lick, everything I try to stop! In the house Belle just sits shaking her bottom back and over madly for someone to pet her, but when she is out, it all goes to pot.

I have a question for you mini, and anyone that has been through this, is it normal for a 20 week puppy to still be latching on to clothes and skin and ripping clothes that we are wearing at the time? Belle is still going mad in the evening, using the couch as a spring board and us as teethers no matter how much we swap it for a toy or treat for good behaviour. Should we crate for a period of time when this happens? And for how long? Is it fair for her to have to spend 10 or 15 minute slots in there during the course of the evening. She cannot relax or sit still. Pleaseeeeee advise me on what to do. Thanks.

[minimu1]

Assumpta not sure if normal but very common .

The best advice I was given re dog training is if you do not like a behaviour do not let it happen. (often easier said than done).

So in this instance I would put a lead on Belle and not let her jump on the furniture and get at your clothes.

If it is a set time in the day - what triggers it? Is it all of you sitting down or has she just been feed or is it that mad bedtime rush to get the DC settled an she is obviouldy being ignored. See if there is a trigger and then before it happens try to prevent the behaviour.

As you know I am all for positive training but sometimes the dogs still need to know that the behaviour they are doing is not appropriate - this may mean distracting them but sometimes by not allowing the behaviour to happen and praising the alternative behaviour like mad.


Maybe in the evening you could get her last meal, sit on the sofa and just get her to be in the down position, click and treat her. Use all of her meal so click and treat loads and loads of time, give a bit of food at a time only when she is still and in the down position. Gently lengthen the gap between the click each time. You will have to judge this yourslef slower is better so you may need to do this for a couple of days.

Hopefully she will see the sitting room in the evening is the time to be calm and continue to praise her for being calm.

Hope that helps if not do yell this is just plan A!

[SoupDragon]

I say his shortcomings are my fault because I have not dealt with them and he's over a year old. I know that I have not put enough effort into him and he should be better than he is because he is an utterly adorable dog.

"However generally a gun dog gets a scent and that is it!! Have you thought of getting into working trials and tracking - you would be the top of the class."

LOL! And therein lies the problem. I can no longer let him out in my garden off the long line. we have foxes, badgers, cats and an unsecurable border with at least one neighbour. The wildlife make holes, Dill goes out, nose to the ground and he's gone. It takes just one hole in my garden and he is then free to run rampant through every single garden in the block. Add to this the fact that three neighbours have dogs and Dill likes to make his own exits (even tunnelling ) and it is a disaster.

At one point (and i don't know how he did it) he managed to leave behind his ID tag every single time he went missing. I'd find it in the middle of the lawn with no dog attached. He now has an Indigo collar tag which he can't lose.


I was walking him near the Police Dog training centre at Keston and it took all my will power not to tie him up on their doorstep and run away :o Sadly, I had him chipped so they'd track me down.


I actually hate walking him on the lead as he is so desperate to go rooting around in the woods. He absolutely adores it... He'd be fab at agility as he can vault trees, walk along logs, jump through hoops of fire... Well, maybe not the last one. I just don't have the time to do full on trialling though. I think recall is the most important skill at the moment. along with the jumping and DOWN!

Crumble, I am delighted to hear that your spaniel dances on his hind legs because I have never seen another one doing it. My childhood spaniel never did, but he was from a puppy farm Wales and I suspect he had a genetic weakness in his back legs. (still miss him nearly 30 years on!)


I now have a date with a muddy wood and Dill will have a date with a bath shortly after. He stinks.

[SoupDragon]

Dill eats his bedding and has a sock fetish. I keep finding them in the garden. [weeps]


He is currently curled up at my feet in a damp, muddy ball, snoring and steaming gently by the radiator. the smell is, as you can imagine, delightful.

[Batteryhuman]

SoupDragon have you considered an electronic fence system where your dog wears a receiver collar that gives a warning if he goes too close to the boundary and an unpleasant (but not painful - I've tried it) zap if he goes any closer. (eg Freedom Fence) It requires careful training and I anticipate a flaming for suggesting it but IMO it is a good solution where the boundary cannot be securely fenced and the alternative is never allowing the dog outside for risk of losing him.

We had a major badger population and a boundary that was very difficult to secure at our last house. We successfully trained three dogs (including an escapologist springer) to this system without trauma.

[assumpta]

Hi mini, thank you for that advice. Regarding the lead, is that a normal short lead I would use? It is usually in the evening when we are settling down. My dd's are 13 and 10, so she is not being ignored, and in fairness they are not winding her up either. It is usually around the 6 to 8 o'clock mark, and maybe till 10o'clock, but it is relentless, to the point where it is causing arguments among ourselves. We are doing it by the book, but it is not working. We now know that she seems to have a gut problem and have been told that this is probably why she is being quite snappy, if she is in pain or discomfort she is taking it out on us. She has been vomiting on and off since we got her 12 weeks ago. We thought it was settling in nerves, but even the breeder has now told us that this is not normal. The quandary we are in is, how long will this continue for, and is she going to continue to get cross and unpredictable with us? We have already changed her food and she is now on only boiled chicken and rice in tiny portions until her stomach has settled. She is not really drinking at all, so I have been giving her crushed ice, which i hope is ok. She hasnt calmed down much though considering she is not well. The vet seems to
think it is a kind of colitis, but is this curable, or are we
fighting a losing battle? Our breeder is terrific and has
offered to have her back but this would make us feel
terrible, but it may have to come to that. Unfortunately
we have not reached the stage of being able to enjoy her at all, as every evening is a real battle. What would
you all do?

[SoupDragon]

Batteryhuman, I have idly considered it but it wouldn't work, because he simply tunnels or pushes at apparently secured boundaries instead. I suspect the cost of putting the fence in for the whole garden would be prohibitive.

Which reminds me, I need to go and find something to plug his most recent tunnel!

[minimu1]

Assumpta you poor things what a nightmare!

Any consolation I fostered a lab with colitis and although it did take a while to sort out it is pretty much manageable now. I guess you are in frequent contact with your vet - the not drinking would worry me a lot.

So the only food she is getting is the rice and chicken? Hopefully no other treats at all of any sort.

I would make her tired - I know you are on restricted exercise but I would make sure she is tired at 6.00 ish. Then put her on a short lead and feed her evening meal as suggested above.

Do you use a clicker? It really can help to chill dogs out even just the click and treat (there is some research at the moment which is looking at how the click affects the brain and it is showing that it has a calming effect on the hypothalamus)

It is not unreasonable to expect her to be calm in the evening especially if she has had a busy day - she has to learn this is what is done in your house!

About 8.00ish I would play a game with her for 10 mins or so, tuggy or finding a ball etc and then again after this expect her to be calm so back on the lead and sit by you.

This will obviously take time and you may find she needs something to do when you are asking her to be calm - so is there something she likes chewing or a tennis ball shoved in an old sock is good or an old tea towel tied in knots, I know food is an issue but an old cereal packet with a tiny bit of food at the bottom can keep dogs quiet for a while - may meaN a bit of mess.

Do go back to your vet though as she should not be in pain to make her that grumpy - don't be hard on yourself sometimes things are out of your control.

Where abouts are you?
Don't give up and despair though - she is just a baby and she will change and get the idea. I am sorry it is being such hard work for you all though

[minimu1]

Sorry after all that forgot to say - yes a normal short lead

[assumpta]

Mini, thank you so much. I feel so much better now. We have taken her for a long walk in the park this afternoon, and I think I will take her for a nice brisk around the block walk at 6. It can't do any harm. What a good idea about the tennis ball in a sock and the knotted tea towel! Will the ball in the sock not wind her up. She is not having any treats whatsoever, literally just the chicken and rice. I seriously don't mind cooking for her every day if it keeps her well. I am cooking anyway.

I think I will go for the clicker next week once she is hopefully on the mend, as I can't click and treat now anyway. I didn't know if clicker training was a waste of time as you drop using the clicker anyway, and how long does it take to drop it especially if she is with someone without a clicker. I guess I should read up on it.

Yes she is not drinking much, why would that be? This is why I was giving her the crushed ice. I have stuck a long kong in the freezer in a container of water, so I will give her this to lick later. It might keep her amused, while also getting water into her. What do you think?

[minimu1]

Kong sounds a great idea.

If she was feed kibble before and is now eating home cooked food she will drink less anyway so it could be that.

The ball may wind her up but if it does she must learn to play with it on her own so if she is just chewing it etc praise her.

I would still click and treat but use the cooked chicken she is getting from her meals - most clicker trained dogs never forget the clicker!

I drop the clicker once a behaviour is learnt but never drop the clicker! My old 15 year old girlie has learnt this weekend to roll in a blanket to cover herself up! No real purpose to it but just keeps her busy and out of mischief. But then I don't get out much!!!! [grin.

[assumpta]

You said " I drop the clicker once a behaviour is learnt but never drop the clicker", I'm not quite sure I understand what you mean.

Sorry.

[SoupDragon]

Ooh! I think I do! Once the behaviour is learnt, you stop clicking for it but you never stop using the clicker as a training tool.

[SoupDragon]

I am liking the idea of a tennis ball in a sock BTW. Two of Dills favourite things rolled into one.

On the subject of clicking, I was clicking Dill when he was behaving on his walk, but he didn't bat an eye lid and didn't come for the treat. I wonder if his ears disengage when his nose is on full alert.

[assumpta]

Right it has started. She started the nipping biting and snapping mixed in with jumping up on us and the couch 15 minutes ago. I put on the short lead. She started biting it and pulling it as soon as it was put on. We tried telling her to sit then down and gave her numerous things to distract. She continued non stop, so I have removed her from the sitting room and popped her into her crate. I will give her 5 mins and take her for a walk. Let's see what happens then! It could be another long night!

[minimu1]

Soupdragon a definate click and treat for you!


Yes I had the same problem with a border collie who really could not give a dam about the clicker when out and about. I just went back to proofing the clicker more and more and his treat was his ball not food. Click and a chase of the ball soon got him interested.

So with these gundogs I would get a furry toy on a piece of string and click and drop the toy and run away dragging the toy behind - you will soon have a very eager spaniel.

[assumpta]

Took her for a quick brisk walk. It helped us both and we had quite a calm evening!

I now understand the comment you made mini, sorry I won't be top of the class!

She only did a tiny wee this morning, I think if she doesn't drink much before lunch I will give the vet a ring, but she is full of beans this morning.

[minimu1]

Well done Assumpta so glad you had a calmer evening

[SoupDragon]

Yes, an eager spaniel and an owner locked up for looking like a nutter :o

Interestingly, the police dogs on "Send in the Dogs" are rewarded with toys, not food.

[DooinMeCleanin]

Soupy have you stolen my dog?



Ah, no he's till here

Stick with it,it does get easier, but it takes a long long time. Devil dog now walks well on his lead, only jumps up when encouraged to do so and recall has improved to the point where we are letting the long leash trail behind him. But it's taken a good year of training to get to this point (There were many many other problems to deal with, the main one being attacking us when we were trybing to get him to bed )

Ignoring other dogs when we pass them is going good now I have found the 'the best thing in the wold ever' to distract him with (a ball on a rope), but he still gets very over excited when he sees another dog instead of looking at me

We are currently trying to train 'STOP' eg 'STOP chasing the sodding cat/puppy/dust bunny/hoover/invisible thing etc'