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Panorama - Undercover hospital abuse.

(58 Posts)
thenightsky Wed 22-May-19 21:54:30

Anyone else watching this? As an ex-psychiatric nurse I'm shocked this is still going on. I was working in the 80s with some vile staff, but thought it had all been stamped out now.

BedraggledBlitz Wed 22-May-19 21:55:54

I'm so upset. These vulnerable people have been living in hell holes. Hope these bastards go to jail.

Isntthatalwaystheway Wed 22-May-19 21:58:00

Absolutely horrific, sat here in tears for those poor people sad

stargaryenearlyadopter Wed 22-May-19 22:00:48

It's awful, I work in community social care and I honestly say I have never seen anything so calculated and cruel.

RaffertyFair Wed 22-May-19 22:02:48

I had to will myself to continue watching because it was so hard to watch, but those poor people didnt have the luxury of choice. The inhumanity displayed by the staff was horrifying. Sat here in tears.

Alexis21 Wed 22-May-19 22:06:31

I watched the first half but had to go out so missed the end. I will download to watch the rest. I hope the abusive members of staff were dealt with ignorant disgusting specimens.

PeapodBurgundy Wed 22-May-19 22:07:58

We've just finished watching it. OH works for Danshell/Cygnet in a different but similar building. He's worked with some of the people featured in the programme. If it's any kind of reassurance to anyone, things are being genuinely overhauled within the company.

LoadsaBlusher Wed 22-May-19 22:08:47

16 staff suspended !
They should be bloody charged
It’s absolutely shocking
These people are not carers
It was hard to watch this
The recruitment process must be the lowest of the low for these jobs

Alexis21 Wed 22-May-19 22:12:31

^^ this

Starlive23 Wed 22-May-19 22:16:03

I'm speechless...

Flicketyflack Wed 22-May-19 22:18:17

Omg this is still going on angry

What other people are experiencing this unfilmed, unsupported and alone sad

Starlive23 Wed 22-May-19 22:22:15

I cannot understand why those horrible people took jobs as carers. Not a single caring bone I their bodies. Goading that poor girl, I'm so upset for her and her family. Absolutely vile bullies. I'm absolutely aghast.

Handmaid2019 Wed 22-May-19 22:23:20

I've just seen this, absolutely sickened me! I'm a nurse and I cannot believe the nurses there didn't step in, we have a duty to our patients! 😡

thenightsky Wed 22-May-19 22:33:43

When I first qualified in the very early 80s I worked with some shocking nursing assistants with these attitudes towards patients. I tried whistle blowing way back then, but was basically told to shut the fuck up. I'm so very shocked this shit is still being allowed to go on.

willandgrace Wed 22-May-19 22:40:37

There was an advocacy service funded to work in the service, to be these people's voice -how can they and cqc of missed this?

Dramaofallama Wed 22-May-19 22:40:39

I'm speechless but not surprised this still goes on. Having worked within the care sector for nearly 10 years now and with adults with special needs, I have been fortunate that every place I have worked has been fantastic and staff and management very supportive and caring but I know of care homes that have horrific stories behind them - told to me by the individuals I care for and the staff. Funnily enough most of those care homes are rated good by CQC!
Now when I look for work in a residential homes I always ask other carers what they have heard ect than rely on CQC ratings. Word of bad care homes spread quick in the care sector.

staydazzling Wed 22-May-19 22:49:56

I think it's worth remembering aswell that the job centre is known for pushing people into care work, which further perpetuates this problem, the idea anyone can do it,

Handmaid2019 Wed 22-May-19 22:54:35

@thenightsky that's disgusting! I can imagine if someone tried to whistleblow in that place they'd be faced with a similar response! Just heartbreaking.

Dramaofallama Wed 22-May-19 23:01:51

*I think it's worth remembering aswell that the job centre is known for pushing people into care work, which further perpetuates this problem, the idea anyone can do it,*

I fully agree with this!

PeapodBurgundy Wed 22-May-19 23:04:56

As well as an issue recruiting and retaining quality staff, there are serious issues at management level. I know two separate buildings within the company whose management are failing at everything except covering tracks with the CQC. Reports have been made to the CQC on more than one occasion in both buildings, yet the same managers are in place, and both staff and patients are being placed at risk. I don't think issues like these ones will ever be solved until something is put in place to recruit quality managers who actually manage their buildings, and robust recruitment procedures to ensure that floor staff are capable of doing their jobs. These places are so often under staffed, and running largely on agency workers, that they're not being selective enough in who they recruit. It's completely unacceptable.

staydazzling Wed 22-May-19 23:08:04

deliberate and constant understaffing is a big problem and high turnover of staff, due to the abuse the staff suffer is a big problem aswell,

AllPizzasGreatAndSmall Wed 22-May-19 23:13:44

As the parent of a young man who is autistic and has a learning disability I couldn't bring myself to watch it, as i knew i would find it too distressing that people could treat people like him so cruelly.

Dramaofallama Wed 22-May-19 23:15:00

Another problem is also training or lack off.
A lot of companies now have cut costs on this and train staff with online training rather than an actual qualified trainer.
For instance, when I have had to do adult safeguarding - the course was run by an independent trainer and took 6 hours.
When I had to do children's safeguarding at another company (i have never studied or trained in children safeguarding before and the company was aware of this) they gave me an online training course which took a total of one hour!
Guess which one I learnt the most from.

needsahouseboy Wed 22-May-19 23:51:05

I’ve just watched it. It was so very upsetting

needsahouseboy Wed 22-May-19 23:54:20

I’m a nurse as well and there is no way in this earth I’d have stood by and watched anyone be treated like that.

FagashJackie Thu 23-May-19 00:23:14

That was extremely traumatic to watch, I feel for the victims and their parents. How bloody awful.

HagridsBigToe Thu 23-May-19 00:29:30

Absolutely disgusting. And the CQC mostly announce their visits, don't forget- plenty of time to make everything look good and cross all the T's.

Those poor parents- imagine how awful it must be to watch their daughter being treated like that.

Nothing has changed. It's all well and good to say close these homes, but where will these vulnerable people live? Who will make sure this doesn't happen in other settings? I'm sure their families would have them at home if it were possible.

user764329056 Thu 23-May-19 00:34:36

Winterbourne View was the same, abuse exposed by undercover reporter, lots of public outrage, but nothing has changed, abuse is still going on and will continue to as no priority is given to ensuring proper staff receive proper pay and these institutions are changed to safely support their residents. Sadly I really don’t think anything will change this time either, there will probably be lots of promises from self-promoters in various positions but once it’s not a hot topic it will all die down again and be forgotten, just as Winterbourne

Poppyinafieldofdreams Thu 23-May-19 00:39:57

Exploitation of the elderly is rife and a massive hidden scandal. Someone we know had their house stolen we suspect by a care worker when the owner had Alzheimer’s. It’s common place from what I have read. You really need to monitor your parents. The people doing this get away with it. It’s dreadful. Nobody is bothered.

YouBumder Thu 23-May-19 00:41:42

I’m raging.


PeapodBurgundy Thu 23-May-19 03:09:14

Training isn't the issue within Danshell. (Can't speak for Cygnet as the takeover only fully completes at the end of this month, this month's paycheck is still from Danshell). Everything is done at least yearly, and staff will be sent on training again if their practice appears to be sub par. The issues seem to be management in certain buildings within the company either dropping the ball and not adequately monitoring what's happening at ground level, or wilfully ignoring what's happening.
A friend of mine worked at a different Danshell building (not a hospital facility), and was sexually abused by a service user. She was still rotad in to work with this person the following day. Management dismissed her disclosure, and took no steps to either investigate or protect either her or the service user, which if they believed her allegation to be false, they should have done. She ended up taking them to court.
There's no consistency throughout the company. Conditions vary wildly from building to building. Can't say much more than that without over sharing, but there are some serious changes crying out to be made at management level, and until they do, sadistic pricks like the ones in the footage will continue to be employed, and to abuse these poor people.

pink412 Thu 23-May-19 03:37:57

I plan to download and watch later

Tiredemma Thu 23-May-19 06:48:01

I am a senior nurse on an ASD accredited unit. I was appalled and sickened by this. Cried most of the way through the programme. I know 100% that the staff where I work would not tolerate anything like the bullying and intimidation seen on that programme. Cultures like that manifest through shit management. Some of those men made me feel very uncomfortable with their content of conversation and I would question the motivation of anyone who spoke like that and also worked with vulnerable females.
Disgrace. This shit paints all of our units in the same light and this would not happen in my unit.

Shadycorner Thu 23-May-19 07:07:45

I didn't watch the whole programme but saw extracts on the news and that was enough frankly.

I take the points about poor management, underfunding and job centres pushing unsuitable candidates in to care work, but do none of these so called "carers" know right from wrong? Call me old fashioned but what about individual moral responsibility here? There is no excuse for such vile, disgusting behaviour that was totally lacking in any kindness or compassion, never mind professionalism.

WhoWants2Know Thu 23-May-19 07:10:09

I've worked in this sector for nearly 20 years, and it's one of the few vocations I have ever seen where wages have gone down despite inflation because of constant funding cuts by local authorities.

So instead of having good, degree educated staff who stay in the field and make use of their knowledge and experience, they have a constant influx of people who don't really give a shit and are sent by the job centre.

The good staff can't make ends meet and end up getting better pay at places like Lidl.

RighteousSista Thu 23-May-19 07:22:18

Am I the only one who hopes they end up with a custodial sentence for the outcome of their cruel actions so they end up being someone's bitch? I am guessing that being identifiable in the film may cause some problems for them so maybe karma may prevail.

joystir59 Thu 23-May-19 07:23:31

Couldn't watch this. So cruel

Grumpymug Thu 23-May-19 08:12:17

Going to find this and watch it this morning. However this -


Exploitation of the elderly is rife and a massive hidden scandal. Someone we know had their house stolen we suspect by a care worker when the owner had Alzheimer’s. It’s common place from what I have read. You really need to monitor your parents. The people doing this get away with it. It’s dreadful. Nobody is bothered.

Is in my experience, so sadly true. I was a good (senior) care assistant, I cared, I was constantly deprived of the equipment, staff, training and basic necessities to do my job properly.
I whistleblew on 2 occasions. One I was called to an NMC hearing as a witness, because of something the rgn manager did. I want to protect the poor resident and his family, but I was prevented getting him help when he needed it. Luckily I'm smarter than him and the help was made available, and csci (now cqc) made aware. He sacked me on the spot. I was asked back 2 days later by the assistant manager.
I no longer work in care, and many good care workers I know don't either, I burned out constantly fighting for what should have been delivered without question for those in our care. I came to the conclusion that until profit from people's care is capped or ideally stopped, none of this will stop, because the driving force is profit for the owners, and that's leading to utterly shit decisions regarding people's care, corner cutting and money saving schemes. I'd love to see all care homes run in a non for profit way, or profit capped at a certain % and anything else ploughed back into the good of the clients. I wish I'd had the energy and strength to keep fighting, I made a difference to a few people, just not enough, and as the above pp said, no body is bothered, no one listens, something like this comes along and the public are up in arms for a few weeks, and then it dies down and everyone forgets again. It should be a national scandal, government should be taking this seriously instead of pissing around with Brexit. There shouldn't be a next time.

houseofrabbits Thu 23-May-19 09:00:35

I'm watching this on iPlayer. I watched the Winterbourne one when it was on and I can't remember it being as bad as this?! This is absolutely disgusting and I hope everyone involved is charged with at least assault! I'm finding it extremely difficult to watch and I can't begin to imagine how those poor vulnerable adults feel.

PeapodBurgundy Thu 23-May-19 09:06:04

@Tiredemma flowers

Them and others being charged, other staff being disciplined for not following safeguarding and whistleblowing procedures.

PrincessScarlett Thu 23-May-19 09:30:47

I think the problem is more widespread than we would like to believe. Agree with PPs saying job centres push anyone into a carer role. And sadly, I think it attracts the worst type of people.

A friend of a friend used to work in a care home for dementia patients were carers behaved appallingly. She didn't want to say anything as the behaviour came all the way from management. My opinion of her went downhill as I just couldn't believe she stood by and let such behaviour go on.

There are so many amazing carers out there that do a fantastic job but there are too many awful ones.

staydazzling Thu 23-May-19 09:31:58

it's more to do with specific units or companies having toxic work cultures, I was indecently assaulted on my first ever waking night working in care, when I spoke to a superior about it they thought it was hilarious and spread it about, it creates a wierd 2 sided toxic world of secrecy because the people who should be accountable aren't. However I've worked agency and experienced many care homes, good, okay and bad, most fall into ok, one's that are bad you can generally sense tbh. sending people miles away from family is a big problem, also an issue which doesn't get enough attention which isn't fair on balance, I've seen a few cases where residents have been moved homes due to aggressive abusive relatives, so sadly a lot of people being moved about don't always have great family networks to begin with.

Grumpymug Thu 23-May-19 19:16:57

That was just awful to watch. I was expecting a mix of some bad staff and lack of adequate staffing and training that was leading to people not being cared for properly - because that's what I've witnessed in the past, but that wasn't the case. That came from management.
Being honest, some of the restraint techniques don't really work in all situations, however the restraining I saw was totally avoidable in the first place, I was in an emi unit for 5 years, and the residents could sometimes get violent. You only ever restrained anyone to protect another client, and the quickest way to de-escalate a situation was to remove the focus of the aggression - yourself, other clients etc etc, restraint was an absolute last resort to prevent injury. At the point of the aggression by those patients, restraint wasn't needed, the staff just needed to back away. But then if they hadn't been fucking goading them into a reaction in the first place then the aggression wouldn't have happened anyway.
For the assistant manager to basically say "This is what we write, but this is what we do" is just so disgusting. I agree that the restraint techniques don't always work well, and can result in staff getting a split lip, bloody nose, black eye (I've been there) but that's another reason to bloody well make it a last resort! It puts everyone at risk. Staff and patients.
I am also so shocked that this isn't a national scandal, that so far I've found this thread about it and nothing else. There's a longer thread I'm on about breakfast in a hotel than this one!
But I feel powerless, just like I did when I worked in care, because no one listens. The EMI unit I worked on was cqc poor, 6/7 years ago when I left - not only is it still open (and has been in the press for poor standards and ratings) but it expanded a couple of years ago.
What is it going to take to get change?

WhoWants2Know Thu 23-May-19 19:17:53

After Winterbourne, everyone said "This must never happen again!"

And then, instead of putting more systems in place to keep people safe, the tories decimated social care funding.

Guess what? It happened again.

ChihuahuaMummy1 Thu 23-May-19 20:19:36

They are bullies and obviously took the job to intimidate the patients.As far as I know you need little or no qualifications to do these jobs which doesnt help although I apologise if that's wrong.

Grumpymug Thu 23-May-19 20:27:46


I believe how you have to have, or be working towards, an nvq level 2 in health and social care. There's a reason it's dubbed 'not very qualified' though. It's nigh on impossible to put the standards you learn into practice. Not because they're not achievable, but because no where will stump up enough staff and equipment to do so.
That said, the nurses involved have qualifications, as will the management. But yes, you can pretty much walk into a care job without anything, yes there's the dbs check, but all that means is you haven't been caught before. That place was a closed environment, it was a culture that developed through lack of accountibility - because there was no one to account to. It's time the cqc started doing what panorama have done more than once as a matter of course, that'd be a care job I'd willingly take.

ChihuahuaMummy1 Thu 23-May-19 20:32:06

Thanks for explaining @Grumpymug

Cloudpillows Thu 23-May-19 20:36:07

Agree with all comments. It’s hard to be a whistleblower because of the backlash against you and there is no protection. Just nearly mouthed politicians posturing like the gov agencies that are supposed to monitor these places. I have raised concerns in a for profit Sen school/ care home and lost job, career and reputation. Carers, backed up by corrupt management get away with abuse and get off on being put in a position of power over those who can’t fight back. Utterly unemployable in any other setting with limited intelligence and little in the way of education. Abuse will continue while settings like these exist and attitudes to autism continue to be in the dark ages.

TheRealKimmySchmidt63 Thu 23-May-19 21:10:21

Watching this now so awful and horrific they should all be locked up - feel sick watching this - how can people do this!!

WonderBoy Thu 23-May-19 21:13:35

I have just commented on the 'Whorlton Hall Abuse' thread in AIBU. (Sorry I can't link).

purpleme12 Fri 24-May-19 00:33:53

This is absolutely shocking. But it was the nurse involved as well, not just the 'care workers'. I don't know it's managed to go on. The other people who weren't abusing must have seen this. How can they sit back? One of them doing the abuse was apparently an experienced care worker she said

HelenaDove Fri 24-May-19 01:28:22

YY @staydazzling. i posted this on another thread.

There is a way that the Government could lessen the chance or risk of abuse in these homes. All it would take is the stroke of a pen but they wont do it.

They could take care work completely off the table in Job Centres.

So no one who is unsuitable for this job ends up doing it because the alternative is a benefit/UC sanction. .

Until this happens i will continue to rightly assume that they dont give a shit.

HelenaDove Fri 24-May-19 01:36:57

How can they sit back

Fear of unemployment and UC.

Grumpymug Fri 24-May-19 02:07:50

How can they sit back

Fear of unemployment and UC.

Exactly. And the fact that very little, if anything is done, so you end up out of a job and for nothing, and you're not even there to offer what little protection you can. I was a whistleblower twice, got sacked before the end of the shift on one, though in that case there was irrefutable evidence that the person was in the wrong, and I got my job back - but you know what happened then? Nothing ever happened in front of me, I'm not stupid and I know it went on, but in front of me (and a few other staff who were the same) all was by the book. So although it helped that person at that time, ultimately it didn't protect anyone else. That place was on a warning from cqc and has been since - they expanded to include another unit and more beds! How on earth could that be allowed? Who the fuck thought that was in the best interests of the people living and going to live there? An already failing place allowed more people? I'll tell you who, those pocketing the profit!

This is far, far wider than just care workers, it is corrupt right from the top down and that's why nothing will change.

staydazzling Fri 24-May-19 09:16:42

there's a bit problem with deliberate and chronic understaffing from care home managers, and refusal to get agency staff in when dangerously understaffed, I've worked in agency and there is a stigma but I noticed a lot of senior people used the "oh you don't want agency" to justify keeping these places dangerously understaffed for profit,....senior staff can't blame it on the agency workers if they aren't competent enough to delegate properly and get other workers to work as a team., I once said this in front of 2 seniors and a nurse and they just looked rather affronted.

WonderBoy Fri 24-May-19 18:46:25

BBC are reporting that 10 staff - 7 men and 3 women - have now been arrested.

thenightsky Fri 24-May-19 19:03:46


TheRealKimmySchmidt63 Fri 24-May-19 23:57:51

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