Dreams Of A Life - Joyce Vincent - Channel 4(149 Posts)
My dh is black and asked me if it would be acceptable if my friends said I needed a real white man? I didn't what to say. We've had opposition from both sets of family and friends but no one actually brazen enough to suggest the colour of the man to sort out my sexual needs.
the guy with dread locks who had Jimmy Cliff stay at his house was very racist.
I have been there Booyhoo. It is pride. Cannot blame her.or us..
The woman in the red jacket lives in Florida USA
I also think there was an element of "she's fine she will land on her feet" thinking about the way people perceived her.
The whole point of the film seemed to be how little anyone actually knew her. She was ignoring people by the end as she was a smart Woman and knew they couldn't accept what her life had become after all the glamour.
I think she created illusions about herself. The reality was too painful.
Maybe I could start a thread..
Did you know Joyce Carol Vincent?
Yes do, SoleSource, there is a website but nothing wrong in covering all bases, an awful lot of people pass through and stop by at Mumsnet.
I think it's very easy to disappear in London. All my friends live in different corners of the city, everyone works crazy hours, everyone has different groups of friends. If someone doesn't turn up to your party, you tend to think they had something better to do. If you don't see someone for 6 months, it's not a huge deal. People move all the time, and it's not like you'd just pop round to someone's flat to see them without calling first.
There are some close friends that I would maybe check up on if I hadn't seen them, but to be honest, there are a lot of people that if I didn't see them for a bit, I'd just think that they'd moved on.
I worry about this kind of thing happening to me. I've never had a stable home, moved around a lot. Don't speak to my brother, don't have children, don't have a stable job, don't have any really close friends that live near me. I have mental health problems and I isolate myself a lot...I have a partner for now, but if we split up, I wonder who would notice that I was gone.
I hope the replies keep on coming
I have started a thread in Chat.
I watched this last night.
I really felt for Martin. He must be tormented by 'what ifs'
The woman in the red jumper came across as sneery, yes she rolled her eyes when she said Joyce had 'the Sade thing' she did seem jealous.
Was it Alistair? the music producer one that she dated? he said she didn't have a good voice, yet everyone else spoke of her singing talent? he sounded quite negative about her. I wonder if he felt guilty for knocking her back when she got in touch and wanted to resume their relationship? That may explain his negativity.
The thing I didn't like about this film was the made up bits that they filled the holes with, I found the bits of her singing in her flat etc cringy, that was total fabrication and done in a way to make her look like a sad loner. she may well have been a loner, but no one has any idea of how she was living really. Its a shame they couldn't speak with anyone that knew who when she was living in Wood Green. that may have given a better picture of what life was like for her in the immediate run up to her death.
The film maker implied that there may have been abuse by her father, some of those interviewed hinted at it too, but was that because the film maker put that to them?
I had read about her family having hired a private detective to find her, that sounds like they thought she was ok, but was hiding?
Its possible that her withdrawal from her past, her wanting to not be found was because she was hiding from the polish boyfriend, if she was in fear of further harm from him that would make sense.
I think if her sisters had contributed to the film it would have made a lot more sense, I understand their desire for privacy though.
I haven't read anything about the sisters refuting the hinted abuse allegations, that may be because they are true or it may just be because they wanted to remain anonymous and were against the film?
Who were the christmas gifts for? they indicate that she was interacting with people or having relationships? did it say where she was working at the time of her death? if at all?
Amazed that her housing association waited 3 years before taking action about non payment of rent, particularly as she had been housed as a vulnerable person ie coming from a womans refuge. I read that they had reviewed their policy on that sort of thing since her death.
Very sad in all, sad that people can be so isolated. she isn't the first person to die alone like that and she wont be the last. Joyce stood out and was deemed interesting because she was fairly young and beautiful. I don't imagine they'd have made a film about her if she were 55 yrs old and not particularly attractive.
Totally agree. Fab post, thank you very much for your input.
Amber, I totally agree that the bits with her singing etc alone in her flat were a bit silly. I think it's an interesting enough story without extrapolating or dramatising.
You're welcome Sole
Yes, it didn't need it really did it? I think it was the mix of film/dramatisation and documentary that was a bit sketchy?
It is an intriguing story though, I would like to know more about her, but doubt we ever will and that is possibly right. Its very personal isn't it, Ive often thought about the way when someone dies the details of their life can become public property.
Carol Morley made a film entitled 'The Outlaw Years' wrt her drunken teenage day in the same format as 'Dreams Of A Life'.
I didn't really think Martin came across that well to be honest. It was almost like he'd put her on a pedestal and thought she was too good for him.
I am a sad loner and I use my hsirbrush to sing into all alone then cry.no.bullshit
Yes Martin seemed to think he was 'punching above his weight' in having a relationship with her, I think that may have led to him allowing her to use him a bit?
Sole, Ive read about that film about her partying days I read a very scathing review someone posted online on a blog or something.
They did say though that to her credit she didn't edit out the parts where her ex friends slagged her off!
I wouldn't mind watching that actually.
Sole, I dont do the hairbrush thing, but sometimes when im walking down the rd listening to my ipod, I imagine I am on stage singing the songs I can't sing for toffee though!
That was " the alcohol years" it's an awful, cringey
Film but completely compelling.
I have had this thought today. Visualised Joyce on sofa infront of television, dead. But she had no idea she was left there because she was dead! Comforting..
I watched this on 4oD a few days ago.
They played an actual recording of Joyce singing (the one in the studio). Sorry, but Alistair was right - she couldn't sing for toffee. However, it's not surprising everyone thought she was a great singer because she looked and probably acted the part, e.g. in karaoke.
Agree that the sequence of the actress singing with her hairbrush was just silly and added nothing to the film - I nearly fastforwarded it. Overall the film lacked something - it seemed patchy and with loads of missing information. The stuff on the whiteboard was intriguing - but why just show it in passing without stating or analysing it? A straightforward documentary would have been more informative.
To be honest, Joyce seemed like the kind of woman who deliberately cut herself off from people. She made friends, or rather latched onto a boyfriend and his friendship group for a while, then after a while she moved on: literally changed her job, area and house. This is why no one questioned when she went missing for years. She hadn't maintained friendships.
Very sad story though.
MamaMary agree. I think the hairbrush scene tried to demonstrate her ambitions of being a singer and herlonliness/upset over her.childhood.
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