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HPV jab

(160 Posts)
TeenageWildlife Thu 10-Sep-09 15:24:22

My DD has been told that they are about to do these jabs at school. She is 17 so they have spread the initial target recipients. I have done some research on Gardasil and wil be encouraging her strongly NOT to have it. I am shocked by the number of deaths, the fact that it has been withdrawn in Spain, and especially this What do people think?

OmniDroid Thu 10-Sep-09 15:52:45

My first, and strong reaction is that the report linked to is utter rubbish. But then I work in UK public health, so you may write me off as biased.

Checking the text of the video, on a brief read through I think:

that I haven't a clue about this stuff to do with Class 2 and Class 3 detection devices.

That I totally disagree with the conclusion that HPV does not cause cervical cancer - the reasoning seems to be that because most HPV infection is self limiting, it is not a risk at all. Which is scientific garbage. Most smokers don't get lung cancer, but I'm not about to believe anyone who says smoking isn't a cause of lung cancer.

That the reported increase in cervical cancer was (a) a subgroup analysis - a scientific disaster area and NOT reliable and (b) observed only in sexually active women with persistant infection, ie not the group vaccinated in teh UK, young and hopefully pre-sexually active, girls.

I don't know about it being withdrawn in Spain- will go and look.

ajandjjmum Thu 10-Sep-09 15:53:11

My dd had it some months ago. She was fine. I did think long and hard, but at the time no deaths had been firmly attributed to Gardisil - don't know if that's changed?

OmniDroid Thu 10-Sep-09 15:59:43

Oh good grief, I've read more of that article now. It's utter bull. They claim the vaccine is useless because it doesn't clear HPV infection - it's not supposed to clear it, it's supposed to ensure you don't become infected with it. And the 4 quadrant table is rubbish -

Quadrant II: Non-Sexually Active, Receives Gardasil Vaccine
Outcome: No medical benefit from vaccine.

Quadrant III: Sexually Active, No Gardasil Vaccine
Outcome: HPV presence is self-limiting and does not lead to cervical cancer.

are both WRONG.

said Thu 10-Sep-09 15:59:49

All the stuff about Spain seems to suggest that a batch was withdrawn. Not listened to YouTube video but that would be teh last place I'd be looking for real info, tbh.

said Thu 10-Sep-09 16:02:04

And the UK is using Cervarix not Gardasil I think

Sidge Thu 10-Sep-09 16:05:23

They're not getting Gardasil they're offered Cervarix.

mmrsceptic Thu 10-Sep-09 16:08:39

I think you are right but your source is weak. You will find stronger sources and personal stories at

I'm afraid that because she is seventeen that even if you don't sign the consent they will try to persuade her to have it.

My daughter will have this vaccine when grow a curly tail and fly.

mmrsceptic Thu 10-Sep-09 16:09:50

excuse me:

CMOTdibbler Thu 10-Sep-09 16:46:20


Number of deaths reported to US vaccine surveillance =34
No. found to be linked to Gardasil =0
Where a reason for death was found, this included drugs overdose, diabetes, known epilepsy, known heart problems, flu among others. Full CDC investigation here

Spain withdrew one batch

HPV makes changes to the DNA in the cells it affects. These are permanent whether the virus is eliminated or not. There is a known mechanism by which this predisposes to cancer. The Wiki entry for this is reliable and comprehensive. This is why you need to protect against HPV before you are ever infected with it to lower cervical cancer rates.

I spend every day of my working life battling cervical cancer. The toll on womens health is huge, and treatments are very invasive. Your daughter has a chance to reduce that risk significantly.

mmrsceptic Thu 10-Sep-09 17:06:41

a few more facts

TeenageWildlife Thu 10-Sep-09 17:15:53

I think that this is a really interesting debate. My daughter is 17, but she won't listen to what THEY want her to do, she will look at the research and allow me to influence her decision. So I feel a great weight of responsibility in this.I found a website hosted by the mother of a girl who died after the jab.
And found this "Their report does not specify how many women in total have been vaccinated, but says that of the 10,000 who received the inoculation a total of 458 were hospitalised and 29 have died.
Other symptoms include loss of consciousness, fainting, convulsions and pains."
My DD says they do not do a smear now until 25 - this is in the NHS leaflet. My feelings are that they should be doing these sooner and more often. I had HPV at 21 and it was found and dealt with. 25 is too late.

TeenageWildlife Thu 10-Sep-09 17:19:00

And if is is Cervarix, then I don't like the look of this

mmrsceptic Thu 10-Sep-09 17:19:17

Can't you just go and ask for a smear? if you've had unprotected sex?

tbh never mind the vax, don't understand the urge to encourage girls not to insist on a condom

v odd

TeenageWildlife Thu 10-Sep-09 17:55:51

That is the discussion I've had with her. She has not had sex yet, but I did say use a condom and if later you are in a realtionship where you don't, then get regular smears. The issue of the vaccination is still an issue though.

CMOTdibbler Thu 10-Sep-09 18:57:57

CDC report that as of August 31st last year, over 20 million doses of Gardasil had been distributed in the US. Reports to their monitoring system run at 50.7 reports per 100,000 vaccinations total, 3 per 100,000 are of a serious nature. And as I previously noted, many of these are not connected to the vaccination. These are in line with other vaccinations, apart from more fainting immediatly after the vaccination.

Smears are not effective in the under 25's as they get much higher false positive rates.

I would absolutely encourage protected sex, and not smoking (the toxins are massively concentrated in the vaginal mucosa), but it only takes one contact to infect someone with HPV

lljkk Thu 10-Sep-09 19:11:23

And at the end of the day, most of us will end up having unprotected sex (if only to make babies). Abstinence all round before marriage might be the safest strategy... but did someone earlier say something about pigs flying?

mmrsceptic Thu 10-Sep-09 19:17:55

yes, I did say pigs would before I let my daughter have this

and guess what, I haven't changed my mind smile

mosschops30 Thu 10-Sep-09 19:24:14

TW - I sincerely hope that your daughter is not relying on you to guide her when you look for research on YouTube ffs!

I dont understand why anyone would want to prevent their daughter from having this vaccine.

I am very pro-vaccination, my children have had all the vaccines available, most shit like this is just that - SHIT (see MMR!) It makes me angry when unqualified parents read things on the internet and take it as gospel against years of medical research by medical professionals and scientists.

mmrsceptic Thu 10-Sep-09 19:26:45

mosschops, that's an awful thing to say

can't believe i'm even responding to your post

mosschops30 Thu 10-Sep-09 19:36:47

Oh Im sorry hmm which bit was awful??

Sidge Thu 10-Sep-09 20:44:58

I would consider the increased fainting rate an inevitable consequence of the target vaccination group - you approach a large group of teenage girls and tell them to line up for an injection and just watch them start hyperventilating wink

(despite the fact that many of them have multiple piercings and even the odd tattoo grin)

It is a personal choice, but I would consider a 17 year old capable of making an informed decision following a careful evaluation of reliable and peer-reviewed clinical and scientific evidence, not some loon on YouTube. Maybe you could have a look together at some journals? Does she have access to a library at college/school where she can read medical journals?

fluffles Thu 10-Sep-09 20:51:02

the reason that smear tests are not done before the age of 25 now is that they get too many false positives and girls who are in fact perfectly healthy end up having cells removed from their cervix unneccessariy which can then weaken the cervix and cause problems in subsequent pregnancies.

i don't understand why so many people seem to believe that the doctors who make public health decisions about vaccination are in fact trying to kill our children rather than protect them????

and if you do insist on not trusting the people who are qualified to make these decisions then the least you can do is actually base your decision on scientific evidence and statistics rather than anecdotal evidence and hearsay.

mmrsceptic Fri 11-Sep-09 02:28:58

yes, sidge, we always used to collapse after our rubella vax hmm not

nice put down of the female sex

there's plenty out there apart from youtube

but they will definitely put the thumbscrews on her, so make sure she's got a few facts at the ready for that conversation

juuule Fri 11-Sep-09 08:40:07

Given that the HPV vaccine's protection is only effective for four-and-a-half years, according to the nhs website, I'm not sure what the benefit of having it is, particularly at age 12. Even if it was only a small risk associated with receiving the vaccine, I'm not sure why it would be worth taking it.

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