Is this normal teen stuff? Procrastination

[Jess74]

I have a 13 year old dd (Yr 8) so new to the world of teens. She is generally pretty good apart from the fact she is constantly procrastinating. That applies to homework and at home. Her grades have dropped a bit as she's just not doing enough. When I try and talk to her about it she says she feels 'mentally worn down', 'panic' and very down. Most of the time she's fine but definitely has a tendancy to overthink and dramatise. For example, her hamster died a few months ago and she wouldn't let me remove the cage for months and kept sobbing over it . I just took it out in the end and she was way better afterwards.

She also says she finds school stressful and the environment overwhelming and noisy. I'm not good at this stuff as we're very different and I'm just not as sensitive or emotional as her. She hasn't started her period yet so I wonder if it's due soon and that may be part of it.

Last night was a classic example of what she's like. All weekend I knew she had homework due this week and tried to get her to do it but she refused and kept telling me it wasn't due until Thursday. Last night she starts walking around with a face and eventually at 7pm admitted the homework was due in today and she hadn't done it, so I then sat with her until 8 getting it done. I very much left it to her but just talked through the main points. She had to read a 4 page article so I suggested we read it out loud a paragraph at a time each to make it easier. She read her bit like she was back in year 4, claiming she had a migraine and making stupid, sloppy mistakes on the piece of work. I held my tongue as there's no way it's as good as she can do but I think she needs to learn that for herself. I'm happy to assist her, but I'm not doing the work for her and neither am I going to make her redo it when it's a load of shite as I think she'll learn more from feedback from the teacher. She magically recovered as soon as the work was done.

Then she was very tearful before bed and said she just hated homework as home is for relaxing. And told me she often feels panic when she can't do something at school, finds the environment overwhelming etc. She's very fussy about friends and only likes small groups and is always calling herself an introvert and how she doesn't like this, that or the other. Does this all sound like normal teen angst to you? As I say, I'm really not great at this stuff so I want to help, but I sometimes feel she's being manipulative as she'll whinge for Britain before and during homework and then be fine afterwards.

She doesn't have a set timetable for homework but I'm thinking of having one for 4 days a week with 3 days off. Sometimes she gets more from school so she'll have to be flexible but that would be enough for most weeks.

[Claredogmum]

Have a look at the James Williams books about sensitive children. That's what popped into my head when I was reading your post. Might help with some aspects of her behaviour especially if she finds school overwhelming.

[PenguinPandas]

I have one 13 year old DD and one 12 year old ASD DS and its inbetween the two.

13 year old has lots of drama and strong emotions, also leaves homework to last minute but will then do it fine. Isn't bothered by noise, doesn't find school overwhelming, not an introvert.

DS who is ASD is bothered by noise, finds school overwhelming, can't make a decision for ages, is introverted, can get obsessed with animals. He doesn't act in a dramatic way at home though nor gets involved in dramas at school, can get upset at school. So not sure if its NT or not, its sort of borderline. It's a hard age to tell though as my DD is so volatile at the moment and all her friends seem to be.

[TinselTimes]

It’s a hard age to tell I think, but aspects of it remind me of my sister (who is autistic but high functioning and masked it very well) and of my own school experiences (I’m dyspraxic).

I’d suggest reading up a bit on “highly sensitive children”, “sensory overload” and aspergers as it presents in girls.

I’m not saying she has any actual condition, but the techniques and strategies that I use for overwhelming environments, for example, might help her learn how to manage better.

Maybe a calm talk about how she’s finding things difficult and what strategies she can use to help? At 13 she needs to be working out how to manage rather than just leaving homework etc.

[Jess74]

She hates noise and always has done. I'd. Never considered asd. Is procrastination and panicking part of that?

[TinselTimes]

Can be - if she’s generally struggling with noise and sensory overload then her anxiety will be pretty high so that could lead to panic and the procrastination is a way of avoiding/delaying the things that make her panic.

[PatriciaHolm]

Sounds exactly like DD (14) who i strongly suspect has aspergers.

It is hard, but we've figured out some strategies that help - quiet weekends as much as possible, sitting with her whilst she does homework, and not stressing about some of it too much - focusing on the important bits. She tends to work better after dinner, so we try to facilitate that if possible. Her attendance is about 90% which has raised flags at school, and we are working on it but sometimes there is no getting her in.

[PenguinPandas]

DS (ASD) really struggles to make choices, took him a month to decide his birthday party and he ended up only inviting two friends as couldn't decide who to invite, just kept saying I can't make a decision but didn't want me to make it either. Will stick to same choice a lot rather than change. Thinks homework shouldn't be given as home is not school, school is for school work, school said this is very common in ASD. Not particularly a panicker but can get very stressed and wound up at school re tests like one he could only do one question of first five so refused whole test and sat with hands over ears in corner. The class average on test was 20 percent and he couldn't deal with that. Normally have obsessions, his are numbers, soft toys, animals and plants. Also often restricted diet which is plain, eats loads of bread, hates sauces and mixed up food.

[Jess74]

Sensory overload is looking possible then. She doesn't have obsessions as such. She does go on and on about sheep (don't ask ) and has lots of toys and figurines about them and is an avid follower of a band. I'm not sure about ASD. I'm going to see if I can find a podcast about it to keep me company whilst I tackle the pile of ironing. Thank you all.

[TeenTimesTwo]

DD2 y9, finds school stressful and very tiring. Doesn't get much homework. Has some SpLD.

My rule of thumb is that h/w has to be done by the end of the weekend, using Sat and Sun mornings as needed. Plus some done in the week if possible. (Not possible if maths).

I know she won't be able to do it at 6:30pm on a Sunday.

However doesn't always work. She isn't very good at articulating emotions and can go into fight or flight if either she just doesn't want to do it or if she thinks she can't do it. Sometimes I find it hard to know which it is and make the wrong call on how to handle it.

She can only do 20-30mins at a time before needing a break.

While looking up ASD, also look up dyspraxia (which my DD1 has), there is overlap.

[Jess74]

Thank you all. I'm sad to say things have taken an unexpected turn. I told her I'd been reading a out feeling overwhelmed by noise and lights as she describes and suggested some strategies. She then told me she feels sad every day and she's been self harming. I'm so shocked, I don't know what to do.

[TeenTimesTwo]

First thing in the morning contact the school by email saying has been self harming and asking pastoral to call you.

Maybe keep her off school to chat, take her to a café or whatever.
If you are keeping her off say that in the email. Maybe say for them to call you the next day when you have had a chance to talk to her.

At least now she's opened up, which is a start.

[TeenTimesTwo]

[PenguinPandas]

So sorry to hear that - I would tell school and see if you can meet with senco and see if they can get counselling, otherwise GP or private. ASD in girls, there's a lot of self-harming sadly if its that, girls tend to take it out internally, boys tend to react much more visibly and outwardly so generally get picked up earlier. I would just keep listening to her and see if she has ideas what can help - my son has a reduced timetable with some lessons in a quiet room with a TA though you have to push for this as resources are tight. If you think it is some kind of special needs the special needs board here is very good and I think some of them have experience of children self-harming.

My DD threatened it but has never gone through but talking helps her but in a gentle way and listening. With her it was too much pressure at school so we changed schools and she's happier now. Lots of girls that age do self harm - there's a lot of pressure with school and pressure to have boyfriends etc and drama between girls. She must want help though to tell you so that's a good sign.

[ketteringtownfc]

Oh no, OP very sorry to hear that, your poor DD. It's great that she was able to open up to you, though.

My first port of call would be GP ASAP. They can refer onto CAHMS for counselling and assessments. Try and write down a list of symptoms she's been experiencing (from the procrastination, finding school overwhelming to the self harming). Next stop is the school to arrange support. Young Minds are a great charity for young adult mental health, I believe they have a helpline for parents/carers. Childline/NSPCC also have good resources.

Your DD's experience sounds quite similar to my own - I was very anxious at school and worried intensely about everything. I found the world very confusing and felt like people were tugging me in all different directions. Lots of people wanted to see me succeed, but on their terms, IYSWIM? What would have helped is having someone to listen and take me seriously, which it sounds like you are doing a great job of. I was much happier towards the end of school and did get good grades, but it wasn't until university that I felt anyone really understood me.

I know that problems like the procrastination can be frustrating but they are so often symptomatic of issues deep down. Luckily she is not near exams so she can focus on her time management and study skills before GCSEs kick in, once her health is sorted. Lots of for you both.

[Jess74]

Thanks all. She's adamant I'm not to tell anyone, not even her dad. I've said I can do that for now but it's not a long term solution. She definitley doesn't want school to know so I'm really not sure what to do. Crikey. I didn't see this one coming!

[HappyStripper]

A lot of this sounds like me as a teenager. Consider anxiety and depression as well. She may be neurotypical and have a mental illness. They’re very common in teenagers and frequently dismissed as teenage behaviour. Her self harming should be taken incredibly seriously as well.

This may not be your intention but it feels like you’re slightly mocking some of her actions, such as her being upset over the hamster. Please try to make sure she doesn’t feel like you are when you talk to her. That can make her feel even more isolated and less willing to share things in the future if they’re going to be dismissed as silly.

[TeenTimesTwo]

I think you have to tell her dad. It is too big to keep secret from him.

I also think you have to tell school to get the help she will need there.
But you can put off telling them until next week and you have got more info and formulated a plan.

Telling people makes it seem real, your DD won't be able to pretend it isn't happening.

[PenguinPandas]

I would tell her Dad and school though explain she asked for it kept secret. I do think school need to be aware so they can watch for any issues and they maybe able to offer counselling or some subtler help like improving confidence or help with emotions sessions. I would maybe explain to her that you're sorry but you needed to tell the school as you need help helping her. You could also phone someone like Young Minds for advice.

I thought the hamster grieving showed depression, would say she has depression whether she's ASD or NT I am not sure. The sheep thing is very like my ASD son especially if its like the worship of the sheep but band is very teenage.

[Jess74]

Thanks all. I think I'm still trying to work out a plan. She was sobbing as she fell asleep and said she feels lost, hates school and doesn't know herself. We've agreed to see how she is in the morning and I'll let her have the day off if she needs it but I'll have to tell school why. That's not a threat, it's partly because I'm going to have to do it at some point and partly because her attendance is a little low due to a two sickness episodes last term (very rare for her). I will tell DH tomorrow, I just couldn't do it to him at 10 at night. I need to talk to him in private and when I've got my head straight.

To whoever said about mocking her. I know it sounds that way in my first post (before I knew all this) but I can assure you I've never made her feel that way. I can be one thing to her face, but think something else.

Anyway, back to the plan. I'm going to start off by calling young minds. If she doesn't go in tomorrow I will call the school and try and see my gp. If she manages to go in I'll just call young minds for advice for now. Thank you for the recommendation. This is awful. They certainly didn't have a section for this in the baby books!

To those that have been kind enough to share their stories of feeling like my dd as a teen, can you tell me how things are for you as an adult? I am just hoping this is a teenage blip.

I've started to think back. There are a few other things, someone said something about the grieving for the hamster. She also lost a grandparent about 4 years ago and focuses on that alot. Of course she would do, but it has often felt very excessive. She will pay lots of attention to certain dates and will still cry all these years on. I realise 4 years isn't long, but it's proportionally alot of her life. She also has huge issues with friends. She rarely sees anyone outside of school. But she is always telling me the group at school are leaving her out etc. She keeps saying she doesn't get people.

[Jess74]

I've started another thread on chat so don't want to duplicate, but I wanted to update you all, I've got dd referred to Cahms via her GP and spoke to young Minds who were brilliant and have sent me some resources. I am going to tell the school tomorrow or Friday, not sure which. Thank you for your help and support.

[TinselTimes]

That’s good news. Thank you for updating us, and hope things improve.

[PenguinPandas]

Glad to hear you are getting support and well done on organising that so quickly. If you ever want a general chat on the secondary threads there's a starting secondary support thread 2 which has mainly year 7 kids in but I also have a year 8.

[Jess74]

Things went badly this morning. I don't know if it's because her feelings are heightened after telling me what's going on but I literally had to take her to school to get her there. She normally gets the bus but took ages to get dressed, then stood at the door crying. I was rushing to a work meeting but postponed it and drove her there. She gave a few examples of how she's being left out but to be honest I don't think they are. They fell out recently and she sent them all a message saying she was done with them, spent a week on her own and then made up with them. This was instigated by them so that doesn't strike me as people who don't want her about. She says she doesn't like them as the group is too big. There's 5 of them! Its like she's looking for ways their leaving her out, like a paranoia. She's always had friend issues, in that she struggles to make them and keep them. Is this all part of mental health problems do you think? I told her we aren't going down the road of school refusal (a girl in her class does that) as I felt she's pushing for that. How the hell do I deal with this? I still haven't spoken to school. We have agreed she'll stay at home tomorrow and I'll call the head of year to tell her about the self harming. This was the only way I could get he to agree for me to tell them as she said she didn't want to see the teachers the day their told. I can understand that.

[PenguinPandas]

Hopefully the school will have support they can access - DDs school offers counselling to friends of DD who have self-harmed but varies by school.

The drama with school friends and paranoia is very normal, at least DD has exactly the same. I do sometimes need to get DD to think of how much of this drama she is causing herself and its normally her fair share.

The not wanting / keeping lots of friends could be asd / social anxiety or depression. School maybe worth asking their views on. My DD has stabilised since making friends with more boys. School maybe able to suggest things re friendships.

My DS does refuse school at times and I work with the senco to overcome this and have been fairly successful with adjustments. It maybe worth talking to senco as they deal with emotional problems, you don't need any educational issues, son hasn't got any. They do tend to record any time off for MH as unauthorised, at least our school do though they haven't taken any action from that. If you want as well school can access things like Family Support Workers who can work with your family to help, never done that so don't know how much use it is.

[PenguinPandas]

Our school also has a buddy system for kids needing support, DD didn't find that useful, but think all these things are worth trying. Also ask her what would help. My DD wanted to change schools, which I did and it helped but she was at a grammar before and lots of pressure and changed to a comp. Changing from one comp to another without any real evidence its the first comp don't think would help.