No idea how to handle this: massive hostilities between DD and DS, dangerous aggressive driving!

[thunderbee]

[Apologies this has posted as a massive block of text; I can't get the box to format]. If you manage to wade through any of this and reply, very grateful!Currently I have no idea what to do, would be grateful for any advice.17 yr old DD and 16 yr old DS (2 of 3 teenage siblings) locked in hugely hostile silent treatment since Friday, when DD was out for friends' 18th, and DS bumped into their mixed group in town and joined them. (Both siblings in the same school, DS socialises with a lot of the boys in DD's year, so this is isn't per se an unusual thing). DD didn't want him with her group and he refused to leave, and was, according to DD, 'being an aggressive prick' to another boy in their group. DD told me tells me that this was all prefaced by another party she had been at - another 18th - the night before, where she got off with a boy; DS, having heard about this on social media, apparently texted her to tell her she was 'disgusting' (god that makes me angry just writing it down). Boys in DD's year teasing DS for his sister having got off with someone from what I can tell, but I have DD's word only for this though, no evidence and I haven't asked to see. DD was really upset by this, completely understandably and so didn't want DS out anywhere near with her and her friends; the boy to whom he was being aggressive was apparently the boy with whom DD got off. DS refused to leave ,and in fact stayed with the older group even when the couple of friends of his own age had headed home and even after DD had come back (in tears). Lots of stuff kicking off on social media apparently, and DS 'shaking with rage' (why?) in school at the boy (2 years older than him) whom DD kissed etc. DS when asked about any of that night says, 'I'm not saying anything, there's lots I could say but DD won't want you to know and I'm not telling'. Fast forward to this morning, when I knew 0 about this back-story (which DD has told me just now). Odd atmosphere between the two of them was all I'd picked up on;. DD driving DS to school as they both have an early club. DS, usually really slow to get ready, there on time waiting for her to bring the car up. He puts his bags on the back seat and slams the door, and in a nano-second DD drives off at a ridiculous speed, leaving him on the pavement completely stunned - if his hand had still been on the door handle he would have been really badly injured, and at that pace in a 20 mile area if someone had stepped out in front of DD she would have caused huge damage. I was furious. DS phones DD, who comes screeching back up a few minutes later, DS gets in, and DD screeches off again way too fast. They are clearly shouting at each other in the car, but to me it looks like a clear mistake - DD thought DS had got into the back seat and drove straight off. The level of aggression and hostility between them is mad; but now they are both in the wrong in my eyes, DS for his horrendously sexist policing of his older DD and demeaning comments and macho posturing as some other poor guy, and DD for really dangerous, careless driving that could have caused a serious injury. Where do I even start with discipline/sanctions/interventions? So far I have actually only heard DD's version of events, DS is in such a foul mood I can't get anything useful out of him apart from dark intimations that the situation is far worse than anything I could imagine.....Any thoughts? Even the dog is looking morose this evening, the atmosphere is so fraught.

[stripeswitheverything]

You take the car keys away right now. Before she kills someone.

[thunderbee]

apologies for the typos...at not as; tells me 'told me'...

[thunderbee]

Done - thanks though. I've literally never seen anything like it, I was shaking myself.

[Fucksgiven]

Don't allow her to drive ds at all. Take the car off her if you can, report to police if you can't as someone will die if she used a car as a weapon like that. Then try to sort things out, but deal with the danger first

[forgottenusername]

what stripes said! take the keys away now. When they're calmer, get them to sit down with you and talk it all through. I think you need to ask your dd if there's something more serious she's not telling you. Maybe he is being horrendously sexist, but it's possible that she's hiding something that has got her brother upset, or he's been told something that's not true. I think you need to find out all, or at least more of the facts before you try and work out discipline / sanctions / intervention.

[thunderbee]

Thanks Fucks (sorry!), completely agree I'm driving DS from now on until this is sorted out; DD may never get to drive again while she lives under our roof. But I also don't know how to sort this out between them, and DS now seems to feel vindicated because what she did was potentially lethal, and what he's done is 'just' abusive (though I don't think he recognises that). So she's getting a massive punishment (rightly) and he's not had any yet (wrongly? can I punish what I haven't even seen? Should I even be getting involved between a 16 and 17 year old and their tangled social and love lives)?. God, these were such nice kids until a year or so ago.

[thunderbee]

Thank you forgotten username. That is very sane advice. DS is like some unreconstructued caveman in his attitudes much of the time, no doubt a reaction against his very feminist upbringing, so DD's story sounds very plausible but you're absolutely right that there could well e more to it. Will investigate further and try to get them to the table this week. Thank you again.

[shouldwestayorshouldwego]

Agree she gets keys removed. He should be grounded for a while because it is not acceptable to go around town harassing other people. He could be beaten up if he does that to the wrong person. She can go out but not drive. Both have been punished according to their behaviour.

[Haworthia]

DS when asked about any of that night says, 'I'm not saying anything, there's lots I could say but DD won't want you to know and I'm not telling This is the most important thing you’ve said (dangerous driving aside). It seems that perhaps it was a bit more than “DD kissed a boy” and that’s why your DS is so angry. Whether he’s angry at his sister for getting off with said boy, or angry with the boy for getting off with his sister - who knows? But there’s definitely more to it than your DD is letting on, I think.

[Passingwords]

No experience of this age but yes get involved while it’s under your roof, you feed & keep them providing support if added & initially, potentially your neighbours who may get run down by DD. Take her keys. A car used incorrectly is a life sentence for all. She’s not mature enough emotionally to be in charge of a vehicle. They need to sit down together & show you the media posts so you can understand what was going on do that you can try to get them to address their behaviour & behave in a rational manner.

[Fucksgiven]

Id ground the pair og them and make them play board games with us in the evening until they jointly tell us to fuck off. Or something else to get a bit of team teenager back between them

[whiteroseredrose]

Sorry but it's none of her little brother's business who his sister kisses or even sleeps with. Totally unacceptable IMO. I'd be grounding him if his sister is going to a party in future.

[TheSheepofWallSt]

it’s a cost - but perhaps you should consider sending DD for more driving lessons or a speed awareness course? Not explicitly punishment, but more to reinforce to her how dangerous her actions were? As for your DS, he perhaps needs to spend some time at home, until he’s worked out how to socialise like an adult in contemporary Britain, rather than a belligerent caveman?

[pallisers]

You take the car keys away right now. Before she kills someone.This. I have close in age teenagers who all drive and if I saw this I would ban them from the car for a long long time. This is really dangerous.

[LemonysSnicket]

Your daughter was an idiot but your son is a childish misogynist prick who needs to get out of his sisters business and grow up.

[thunderbee]

Thank you all, this is really helpful; car ban in place. Denial quotient is high at the moment: 'I get that it was really dangerous but he's an abusive controlling prick' - i.e. I don't get that it was potentially lethal and I am looking for an excuse. 'What did she say that I said/did [insert DD's words]; well she's a f-ing liar then and a slag'. I may explode. I suspect without social media none of this would ever have even got started - there seems to be an entire audience of 6th formers participating in this one from the sidelines. Next step, neither is allowed out for the rest of the month.

[GemmeFatale]

She loses the car until you’re certain she will be safe. He loses the opportunity to go out and socialise as apparently he can’t behave decently in mixed company.

[Noname99]

Yikes - you really need to sit down with your son here and unpick what he thinks he’s doing. Your daughter is over 16 and clearly whatever happened with other boy was consensual so it doesn’t matter if she had sex whilst swinging from the chandelier and posted it on fb - it is NONE OF HIS BUSINESS and he doesn’t get to judge her or stalk her asserting his control over her. Bloody hell - if you were from a certain ethnic group, people would be calling the police and enacting safeguarding protocols. He is NOT your daughter’s owner and you need to take a very very hard line with this misogynistic bullshit.

[Myimaginarycathasfleas]

Sounds to me like whatever your DD did with this boy is having consequences for your DS. He is being goaded and ridiculed at school. His actions, however inappropriate, are a reaction to that, rather than him just being a caveman. I suspect your DD is being economical with the truth about what went on and your DS is bursting with frustration because he knows you aren’t getting the full picture. Fair play to him for not grassing her up, under the circs.

[thunderbee]

Yes, childish mysogynist prick just about sums up a good deal of my son's behaviour and that of his friends. That is an awful way to talk about your own kid I know; and he is also the only one of the three who will spend time with life-limitingly ill relative and change nappies etc; the only one of the 3 who volunteers with a disabled sports team, the only one who actually asks me if I am alright after a bad day at work. He is massively influenced by a similarly posturing bunch of friends and he's not the most academically able, but that's not an excuse for my failures or his on this one. It's bizarre as his younger brother is not at all like this, neither is DH or I wouldn't still be married, and no-one we know talks like this or behaves like this amongst friends or wider family. It's just so wrong and it doesn't seem to matter how often we challenge it, he still clings to these completely obnoxious macho beliefs.

[Noname99]

And “I’m not talking about it” is absolutely not an option for your son. He needs to talk now and you need to point out just how unbelievably wrong his reaction is ..... I have sympathy for your DD tbh. I’d have refused point blank to drive him anywhere ever again. Does he get to lock her in the house if he doesn’t approve of her actions next time, or physically drag her away or ?????

[shouldwestayorshouldwego]

She is however losing the use of the car as her punishment. He should be grounded for longer as she was not being threatening when out. He needs to be told that his sister's sex life is not his business and he needs to rehearse what to say if anyone tries to comment. A disinterested 'my sister's love life is of no interest to me. Hopefully in a year she might be at Uni and peace will return. I would though consider making her take additional driving lessons before she drives again.

[Noname99]

Whatever she has done (it enrages me to even type this!) is NONE OF HIS BUSINESS! It can’t have any “repercussions” for him because it’s nithing whatsoever to do with him. If he is unable to see that and articulate to his so- called friends then you really do have a problem.

[BigSandyBalls2015]

It isn't any of your son's business who his sister 'gets off with', HOWEVER, I would now be very worried that this fella is bad news - either drugs, treating other girls badly, problems with police etc. I would want to get to the bottom of why your son said what he did about 'not knowing half of it'. I know your DD is nearly an adult but warning signs are going off and you need to dig a bit deeper. It's an extreme reaction from your son but I think he possibly sees her getting in with the wrong crowd.

[Passingwords]

OP could there be some jealousy here? They are close in age, your DD may be sexually active and your DS not yet, not saying DS fancies DD but is his over the top reaction masking a wish to be with a girl?