DSD2 (16) is really struggling socially in year 11 and I'm looking for some advice. I'm sorry- it's quite long.
For background, DSD2's parents split when she was 3 months old.
From 6 months of age, DSD2 has had the same consistent 2 sets of parents (Mum & Stepdad, plus Dad & Stepmum).
Age 6 months to 10 years was spent 50/50 care in both homes.
At age 10, DSD2 moved to sole care of Dad and Stepmum, with contact currently at 2 hours per week with Mum. The reason for care change was DSD2's escalating violence (since age 2/3) towards Mum/ Stepdad/ Siblings in Mum's house. Since moving to Dad's house, contact with Mum has been sporadic over the years, with periods of several months 2 hour visits per week, ending abruptly with a violent episode; resulting in several months of no-contact at the insistence of either DSD2 or Mum, before restarting contact again.
For history, DSD2 has a long history of CAMHS involvement from around age 3. Late to talk, so SALT intervention. Frustration from lack of speech we initially believed led to violent tantrums, but once speech issues were resolved the violent behaviour continued at DSD2's mum's home (until present day). Physical violence from DSD2 towards Mum/ Stepdad/ 2 siblings in Mum's home occurs to varying degrees of severity at every single contact time. Physical violence from DSD2 towards Dad and Stepmum has occurred just twice since toddler-hood, and never towards 2 siblings in Dad's home. However, the over-riding daily issue is DSD2's lies and fantasies, which are stopping her from functioning normally in all aspects of her life.
Over the years, both parents and step-parents have attended numerous parenting style classes/ "parent child game"/ TAC meetings/ School intervention groups/ Group family therapies/ most recently NVR group (Sep 2017) etc.
DSD2 has attended anger management/ parent child therapy/ 4 different teen counselling services/ outward bound style confidence boosting trips/ personal counselling with CAMHS worker. She was diagnosed with ODD at age 8, and then un-diagnosed at age 12 when the CAMHS family therapy at that time resulted in a decision that anxiety was the correct cause of her violent and dishonest behaviour.
DSD2 has gained and lost 2 part-time jobs after just a few weeks due to making up awful lies about new colleagues.
She makes friends very easily, but has never kept a friendship longer than 2 months as she tells so many different lies to so many different school and hobby peers, that she is always found out and ostrisized from social groups. She bounces from one social group to the next, until eventually she has annoyed so many that she is left alone. She was expelled (managed move) out of her first secondary school in year 9 due to causing daily/ hourly issues with the lies she made up about nearly every pupil in her year group.
Within a few months of her new secondary school, the lying behaviour re-surfaced, and so we made a renewed referral to CAMHS in the hope that we could try to pinpoint if it was anxiety/ some kind of attachment issue/ an undiagnosed SEN that was causing her destructive/ almost self-harming behaviour. After an 18 month wait, we were accepted back to CAMHS in November 2017/ allocated a new case worker/ had both child and separate parent interviews, and a neurological assessment should be taking place in the next few months. Over the past 18 months DSD2 has been excluded or in isolation countless times, has been involved in physical fights with peers outside of school resulting in police visits at our home, has stolen numerous peer's property, has started to display reckless sexual behaviour. She has had a complete sleepover ban since year 9 (due to lying about her whereabouts), and a complete internet ban since year 10 (due to her lying or bullying peers over social media, and her seeking out older strange men on social media).
No drinking/ drugs, and never disobeys curfews or groundings, but without fail refuses to leave for school until she's sure everyone will have gone in to class. Will put herself in isolation or stay with school counsellor during break times and after school. Occasionally will be verbally abusive (1x 2-3 hour meltdown per month) to Dad and Stepmum in response to being grounded. Perfect sense of right and wrong when something untoward is aimed at her, but absolutely no outward signs of guilt/ empathy/ comprehension of the suffering she has caused to others. Genuinely doesn't seem to understand some social ques- often misinterprets facial expressions or believes people are screaming when just using low authoritative tone. Never ever admits to a lie- will insist that teachers/ police/ peers/ peer's parents are lying instead for their own agendas. But she's also funny, quick-witted, clever, charming to older relations, caring and loving, generous and kind to her younger siblings, thoughtful and sweet with random favours and treats to Dad and Stepmum, hard-working in her animal hobby, mostly happy to lend a hand with chores, never demands money or favours, is appreciative of lifts and special treats.
It's like she's a Jekyll and Hyde with the different ways she acts around either her Dad's family or her Mum's family or her school environment- all 3 environments agree that they cannot "see" or imagine her acting in the way that the other describes as they are completely different characters.
However, the current issue is that her latest lies have caused such uproar at school that DSD2 has been kept in isolation for the latter half of last week whilst the school investigates. DP and I have been asked to attend a meeting tomorrow lunchtime to discuss the school's concerns. DSD2 has only 4 months left until her GCSE's finish, and so although we are hopeful the school will have a plan of how to handle DSD2's destructive behaviour for the remaining time period, we equally fear that the meeting tomorrow is to inform us that the daily issues are so detrimental to the rest of the year group as they approach their GCSE's, that the school may wish to manage move DSD2 out yet again as her impact on the other students is simply unfair to them at such an important time in their education.
I'm not quite sure what I'm asking for- perhaps any insight if any other parents have dealt with persistent lying, or how to handle the school tomorrow, or what education laws I should be looking up. I know DSD2 is entitled to an education, and if she had a diagnosed SEN or a statement/ IEP then we could request adjustments to help her, but with just an undiagnosed destructive student while we're waiting on CAMHS, I feel we don't have a leg to stand on. I'm really worried and I don't feel we're supporting her to the best of our ability.
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DSD2 (16) constant lying
KittyConCarne · 26/02/2018 00:01
This sounds such a difficult situation OP, for all of you. I have a teenage son with a 'flexible aporoach' to the truth - it's very wearing and worrying so I sympathise.
For my son I think it's connected to his dyslexia and other issues (v mild ASD traits, obsessive behaviour etc). He also has found it hard to read people and situations at times and it's an ongoing process to help him socialise whilst giving him enough freedom to not feel smothered.
If you think your DSD has any kind of academic difficulties could that explain some of her behaviour? It can be a real vicious circle because of how the shame that so often goes hand in hand with education difficulties impacts behaviour, with knock on effects on friendships, school etc.
Anyway, just an idea. If you think reading might be an issue there is a really informative website called 'children of the code' which explores (amongst other things) the psychological impacts of reading problems.
Let me know if you'd like more details and best of luck to you all - it sounds really tough 
Sorry you're having such a hard time
Have a look at borderline personality disorder, I have a family member diagnosed with this and was very similar to your dsd at her age.
My cousin was diagnosed at 19 through a psychiatrist, no CAMHS then. She displayed reckless sexual behaviour, unstable inter personal relationships and friendships, stealing, lying, a fantatist, violent outbursts, self sabotage. Put her parents through absolute hell 
. I can see you're doing your very best to help her.
Hi again OP. Good to hear that academics are not an issue. At secondary the demands on students step up a lot so any niggles tend to get exacerbated.
Does she get any 1 to 1 therapy via CAMHS? Her risky behaviour would seem to warrent it. We had camhs input for a while which had some positive results. Is private individual or family therapy an option your daughter would consider and you could all support/contribute to?
You sound amazing in the support and care you are all showing her. Don't give up - when she matures she will know that you were all there for her, even if she doesn't realise it now
There are limits to what you can do. You are not failing her at all, you are doing your very best to help her in a situation that is not your making. Actually you sound like a fantastic and caring step-mum
Some fairly random responses to some of the things you've said..
Some parts (not all) of what you are describing sounds a bit autism-spectrum/PDA-ish to me - the unpredictability and manipulation are more common in PDA than other ASCs. But I agree it could also be personality disorder or attachment disorder or none of the above. There may not even be a single diagnosis that makes sense of everything, so you could pick and mix anything that helps.
she will be bouncing off the walls excited about only doing 2.5 hour days from now on- is that because she's a naughty kid who's got her own way, or is it because she'll be so relieved that the stress and anxiety she is experiencing with not coping in mainstream is going to be minimised so it's like a weight has lifted?
She may well feel both of those, plus a huge sense of personal failure which may kick in a bit later and she may act out to resist it. Some of her lies may be about trying to make the world the way she wants/needs it to be because she can't cope with feeling bad about herself (something a bit like the "Aspie bubble") But realistically that mix of reactions and feelings can't be helped. Sometimes there is no ideal solution and all you can really do is the least-worst.
It sounds as if whenever she feels under pressure and reality is too painful or scary then whatever comes out of her mouth is nonsense. Some of her lies - not all of them - sound like a much younger child in trouble and in a panic, denying the obvious.
I would not worry too much about learning from consequences. She is probably not fully able to connect her behaviour to the consequences of that behaviour, especially not when she is feeling upset or agitated, which by the sound of things is a lot of the time.
Her temper can last from 30 mins long (and then completely chilled and relaxed and chatty as though she didn't just wish everyone dead/ confused as to why everyone else isn't chirpy with her)
Heh - my DS (ASC diagnosis, lots of anxiety and temper but different in many other ways from your DSD) used to do this. I saw it as an empathy/boundary issue - "I have fully vented my feelings and now I feel much better so why is everyone else unhappy?" He didn't really remember what he'd said or done while he was in the temper state, or associate it with how other people might feel about him.
Maturity may well make a difference to her. One thing people say about youngsters with ASCs is that they operate socially and emotionally at about two-thirds of their actual age. It's not so much that they suddenly catch up as that they make progress but more slowly.
so will only be revising or working if she feels inclined to do so.
Then can you put her in control of revising and working? She seems to need control. I had a deal with my DS: I would only nag him if he wanted me to. But in exchange he was not allowed to snarl at me when I nagged. So I would ask him "do you want to be nagged today?" and "when shall I come in for a nag?" and respected his answers. Letting him decide helped.
later that evening tried discussing with DSD2 re the reduced timetable being put in place due to her own poor choices and behaviour
I understand what you are trying to achieve but these are probably not connections that she is capable of making, or at least not in a productive way. She is very vulnerable and she would feel attacked and accused and either melt down or start lying to make it OK in her own head. You could just say that the reduced timetable is put in place because you all agree it's best for her, end of story.
Told her that she shouldn't have just walked out of her lesson and walked into isolation block;
Again, telling her what she should have done is probably one of the points where she loses touch with the truth. She starts trying to make what she did the same as what she should have done, and that need trumps everything else and off she goes to la-la land. If you want maximum truth (though total truth may be outside her reach) then go for uncritical listening "I see" and "mmm" and "what happened next?"
Have you looked at Ross Greene's ]] book? Quite a few of us on MumsNet have found his approach useful for managing difficult kids who don't respond successfully to consquences.
You are doing an amazing job.
It's hard to explain to others, as indeed on a daily basis you wonder if you are still in control, or whether your child is just walking all over you.
The Ross Greene book might strengthen your confidence because he has good explanations for why conventional discipline can fail and why different approaches can work better for some children. Some of what you are doing sounds pretty similar to his approach. He also has a website Lives in the Balance. The MumsNet special needs groups can also be a very good source of support - there are some parents of children without diagnoses there.
CAMHS would assess DSD2 and come up with whichever possible diagnosis they felt fitted best.
That's more or less how CAMHS handled my DS - he had a multidisciplinary assessment from a developmental paediatritian, clinical psychologist and SALT. They triaged other things, then homed in on the ASC but with DS it had all come out of a blue sky when he started school so they were starting from scratch. The psychologist did say "he might not tick all the boxes for Asperger's but let's call it that, I like to be creative" (!!!) Your CAMHS worker is kind of right that it's partly a matter of going for the diagnosis that brings the right support - e.g. the Asperger's diagnosis got DS referred for the social skills help that he urgently needed, which he might not have got with a different or no "label".
Just seems such an odd method of dealing with it, as we must surely be taking up more time and resources on the NHS by them not looking at the overall picture/ getting the diagnosis/ getting the required treatment and/ or lifestyle adaptions.
Maybe it's like one of these weird long-term physical things like ME that no-one quite understands or knows what to do with. There isn't hard and fast objective test for any of these psychological conditions, it's all professional judgment etc.
Is there one senior person "in charge" of DSD's case who you could ask for an overall review? We had a paediatritian and a clinical psychologist who we could poke for that kind of thing. Though for us it was more asking for therapies (another round of social skills sessions or a behaviour group, etc)
"You didn't ask me to wash myself in the bath, only run one" (this is also an example of her black & white thinking that was picked up on the Autism assessment).
My DS also has that infuriating combo of literal-mindedness and self-servingness. Much more literal-minded about things he doesn't want to do!
So, the only correct language to use is "Don't forget you're doing xyz tomorrow night, so if you get a chance later today you might want to fit a bath and hair wash in, as you won't have time tomorrow".
Very much the way I talk to DS, I haven't given him a direct instruction in years. I also have "we need to do X, shall we do it now or in 10 minutes?" which still works (he always says "in 10 minutes") though he's 19 and mostly living away at university.
it feels really really worrying that she isn't learning, and we aren't going to be able to save her from the legal implications in the very near future due to her age.
I really do sympathise. It's funny - although your DSD doesn't have a diagnosis, she still seems less able than my own DS, who was diagnosed with an ASC at age 6. At 8 years old (and despite being a very academic articulate child!) his only strategies for dealing with social problems were scream, scream louder, kick, kick harder. He kept his safe bubble by blaming other people - the one time when his literal-mindedness gave way to fantasy! - and then he couldn't go back, just dig himself in deeper and deeper. But even by 16 my DS was a lot calmer, more flexible and much better able to navigate social situations safely without blowing up. His development was more in line with the demands on him. But your DSD may still have a hard long haul ahead.
So try to find time to look after yourself too. You are a great mum seeing the good in DSD despite all. Happy Mother's Day.
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