Putting a teenager in to care.

[lifeofbrian]

I have a 15 yo nephew that has been in care a few times for short periods over the years. He's stayed in foster care for a short period, and various family members, none of which can handle him. He is being looked after by his 86 year old grandad who has the flu, his mum is in hospital half paralysed with MS, I can't control him, tonight I tried to discipline him for being late in, he threatened to call the police on me and say I threatened him, luckily I recorded the conversation on my phone. He's a constant nightmare that needs to go in to care.

My question is, who do I call if he needs to be removed?

p.s. The social workers have talked about putting him in temporary cars because of him mothers situation. But I'm worried he'll kill his grandad off before then.

Who can I call?

[MyBrilliantDisguise]

I would call 101 and ask to speak to someone about him. I agree with you - it's not working out having him with you. His poor grandad, too.

[TheHeartOfTeFiti]

Does he have a social worker? You need to call them tomorrow

[Iluvthe80s]

Awful situation poor lad too. I'm not diminishing what you are going through btw, but is there any way to get extra support for him and your family so that he doesn't go into care ?? Is his bevior because he's scared or influenced by outside influences?

[Runninglateeveryday]

How did you discipline him ?

[cuttingcarbonemissions]

When is he 16? Because IME “care” for a 16 year old can be a bedsit somewhere grim with other teens in care - most of whom have massive problems of their own. He will be a million times better off with family.
Provided he is not involved in criminal behaviour, I I think you need to allow him to come and go as he pleases- no-one will be stopping him doing this in the “ care” system - and forget “disciplining” him.
Sorry you are in this position [ flowers]

[lifeofbrian]

Yes, there are social workers involved in the family because he was taken away for inappropriate behaviour towards his younger sister.

[lifeofbrian]

Iluvthe80s - All the help so many close and more distant family have given him, and so many care workers over the years, as soon as he comes home he starts again. To be honest he has a lot of his father in him, which is not a good thing, to be perfectly blunt, he's a bully. I heard a few recording of him abusing his sisters and mother(my sister), I've tried many times to reach out to him and got other male family members to do the same, to try and give him a positive male role model, as we are all successful compared to his father(who has many children with many women and is an alcoholic), but he is not interested, he hates me and my brothers because we "try to dominate him", my other 37 yo nephew told me when he looked after him last weekend. In other words we try to talk to him and make him see sense and do the right thing. When asked at the age of 11 what his favourite hobby is, he literally said annoying his mother.

Talking to my older nephew from my other sister today, he told me how he saw him picking on his 5 yo sister doing exactly the same thing as his father did to my older nephew.

[Oblomov18]

Talk to the SW. explain that he's too much to cope with. He needs to take responsibility for his actions.

[lifeofbrian]

Runninglateeveryday - How did you discipline him ?

I walked into him room and asked in a polite but adult tone why he didn't come home on time after I let his friend come round and go on my VR headset, and then go out to another friends to watch a film. Straight away he started to shout and accuse me of intimidating him, I said me telling you off is not intimidation, it was the strange for me as I have not seen him act this way to me before, he normally behaves much better when I am around. I then mentioned about him shouting and swearing at his grandad in the morning(which I saw on live stream from his sister), after first denying that the after I told him I watched it, he said "so what", I said do it again and I'll take your phone away. Within a second he's on the phone to his mum in hospital saying in a very scared(fake) tone that I'm threatening him. Then he threatened to call the police on me, but as I said earlier, luckily I recorded it all on my phone, so he didn't. But today he's playing the victim, he brought a friend home from school with him so he's be "safe from me", and had his mum on face time also. If I wasn't smart enough to record the little sod, I could be in a lot of trouble.

[MyBrilliantDisguise]

He's completely disrespectful towards you. What will you do now?

[lifeofbrian]

MyBrilliantDisguise - Well luckily my sisters friend has taken him for a few days, he goes there now and then. I've talked with all close family and we know my sister can't cope with him now she's disabled, she could't before which is why the social services want to put him somewhere for a short while soon anyway. My dad who is 86 shouldn't have to put up with the stress, so either he goes back to his idiot father or into care. I've tried for so long to reach out to him but come to the conclusion that he can't be helped, at least not by us. He was with a family a few years back with sons in the military, he liked it there, but I don't know why he was sent back home. He is not as bad round new people so a good break of him having to behave himself may do him some good.

[MyBrilliantDisguise]

I think it's really important your dad doesn't have him. He's in his final years now and really doesn't need or want that stress.

It was really good of your sister's friend to have him. If she can't cope, I think she should be the one to call social services. You can then say you're not prepared to have him.

[KeepHimJolene]

ring the duty team at SS tomorrow. Tell them you need help. Care lasts until a child is 18 he will be placed with a family. He needs to be back in care, they have fast access to all the services and support you will struggle to get for him. Passing him around is not helping him he needs a secure base.

[Runninglateeveryday]

Children aged 16 rarely get placements with foster carers, it is more likely he'd be offered a sheltered accommodation for young people.

Has he never seen Camhs or had professional support?

Would your dad say he can't cope? If he says he's happy for him to stay it's unlikely he will be moved.

Does he go to school /college?

[Sumo1]

Does he know 'care' means a flat on his own. I doubt he realises this and also doubt he is capable of coping with that scenario and probably he knows that, so might just improve a bit if told this.

Clutching at straws here.

[RancidOldHag]

OP says he's 15.

It might be better to get him into a placement now, before he is 16.

Might it even be possible for that to be a place,ent until age 18?

If not, then supported living in a shared house might be the only option. Yes the other residents will have issues, but from the sounds of it, so does he.

But the DGF will need to be clear that he can no longer cope. If he says yes, nothing will be arranged - and I think there might be some pressure on him to agree to continue (as arranging a placement can be both difficult and expensive)

[yellowbirds11]

Even if he does get a placement now he’ll just be removed from it upon turning 16.

Generally speaking, I think it’s best to accept the situation is out of your control and to avoid any confrontation at all. The only time to challenge in a firm but polite manner is in extreme situations, not being late home. (I’m not blaming you, by the way, OP.)

[userabcname]

Hi OP, I don't have any concrete advice but just wanted to say be very careful with false accusations against you (as you are being by recording him). I have worked with similar youths and lots of them had been through countless foster placements that ended each time when the foster carers were accused of some kind of abuse by the child. I would note down and, crucially, tell someone (by email preferably - maybe to his social worker? - so it's written down with times and days) each time he says he is scared of you / going to call police etc. This is what we as staff had to do when working with these youths in case of accusations against us. It is, of course, very sad for him and he clearly has a lot of issues but you need to protect yourself too.

[Daisymay2]

KatnessK is right. Keep a written record of incidents especially if he threatens to accuse you of anything and email to Social Worker or head of children's services straight after the incident. Also make sure you save your recordings to the cloud in case your phone goes missing.
From experience with close family members the SW will believe the young person (and elderly clients ) regardless of the circumstances although one said to my relative that they knew that the DC frequently did not tell the truth they still acted as if they believed them . The last foster carers suffered as well.
Your nephew needs help but sadly "care" for his age group is likely to be a bed sit with the odd visit from a careworker, especially if he has had other placements breakdown. Has he been seen by CAMHS or had family therapy?
If SW tries to place him back with grandfather think about involving Adult S S as a safety issue as gf sounds like a vulnerable adult.
Whatever happens, do not blame yourselves, you and other family members are trying your best.

[Iluvthe80s]

lifeofbrian I'm sorry to hear you have all had such a difficult time. I hope you all find a solution that works for you all, including your nephew. Does he know you are considering care options? i wonder whether that might impact his behaviour? Is he worried about his Mum? could that be influencing his beahviour? when my son is anxious his behaviour deteriorates

[IHaveBrilloHair]

I put my Dd in care when she was 14, I just flatly refused to have her at home anymore and they had to take her.
She went into a unit/children's home practically next door to my house.

[lifeofbrian]

I talked to my sister today and even though every other family member thinks he should be taking into care and the social services are advising it, my sister says no way. So there it is, he'll get no help, her and the kids and my grandad will suffer. I'm going round tomorrow to take my dad to the doctor and pick up the youngest from school only to help my dad, apart from that I'm out.

[Daisymay2]

lifeofbrian
This is a no win situation for you. I hope part of the reason he is being so awful that he is worried about his mum, is there anyone who could take to him about her? but you need to make sure that the 86 year old grandad is not compromised into caring for him, especially if he is frail.
Can a SW talk to your sister?

[ObscuredbyFog]

Have a read of this website. then get all the family who are closely involved with him to read it. If you're all happy to use some of the strategies suggested there for a few months consistently, to see if it will help the lad, then maybe it's worth a try.
www.livesinthebalance.org/

The usual 'punishment' sanctions have obviously not worked for your nephew, all of his family need to agree on a new approach.

[lifeofbrian]

Daisymay2 - There are social workers all over the place. We have a family meeting with one in a couple of weeks. The grandad lives for my sister and her family, he has spent her entire life doing everything for her, even when she was with various baby daddies and in between them, my dad is her doormat.