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Teenagers

DS physically abusing DD. What do I do next...?

46 replies

Happymonster · 20/05/2017 14:17

My DS 14 in the last week has hit DD11 hard in the back of the head twice, and left bruises on her arm and leg. Each time it has happened suddenly with next to no warning. He has anxiety and social issues (he's been referred by school for possible autism spectrum). He understands boundaries and that what he has done is unacceptable, but feels justified by the fact that she is annoying. In our experience sanctions do not work as he acts on an eye for an eye basis (eg we confiscate his computer he takes something of ours he knows is valuable) and they also ratchet up his anxiety levels resulting in a worsening of his behaviour (smashing up the house, aggressive swearing and shouting, more intimidation and violence). He only goes out to go to school so grounding is pointless. I should say his behaviour at school is good.

We feel so alone - we need to protect her and she has a right to feel safe at home. I'm concerned about the impact it could have on her emotionally as well as the potential that he could really harm her physically. Part of me wishes he was just hurting us instead.

But underneath all the sh** he is quite emotionally vulnerable and needy - I don't want to just give up on him. I am so worn down and it is affecting my relationship with DH. He keeps telling me we should think about putting him into care. It could tear our family apart and I don't know where to go- how can you tell friends or family about it - they don't really understand.

OP posts:
KingJoffreysRestingCuntface · 20/05/2017 14:19

Hard blow to the head should be checked out by A&E.

Is there a grandparent or relative she could stay with for a while?

LadyPenelope68 · 20/05/2017 14:23

You have to ask for help for his behaviour, he needs help dealing with this, you cannot do it alone. His Sister also has a right to feel safe in her own home, do NOT get her to stay with relatives for a while as has been suggested by a pp as this will just send totally the wrong message to her. If anyone should be staying elsewhere for a while, then it should be your son.

KingJoffreysRestingCuntface · 20/05/2017 14:24

Why shouldn't she stay with relatives?

Surely the obvious choice is to move her to safety??

PortiaCastis · 20/05/2017 14:28

It'll get to a stage where she will have had enough and thump him back so protect your dd from his violence and get help for him.
Maybe ask a relative if they'd take him for a while

Inbetweenus · 20/05/2017 14:29

I'm sorry to say this, but it will affect DD emotionally. I experienced this from my DB all my childhood and it has had a huge impact of my adulthood🙁. She does need physical protection and emotional support.
It must be tough on you to balance the needs of both DCs, and i think you need professional support.

fessmess · 20/05/2017 14:31

Our 15 year old dd was suffer with anxiety last year and became violent. We called ss and got help and YES they did assess with possibility of fostering her but we were not keeping her safe, our youngest safe we were on the verge of splitting up and I had nothing to give. 18 months later on, best thing we could've done. I didn't want to call them. It my dh said"look at us, look at our youngest we need help ". He was right. It was thinking about my youngest that swayed it for me. Good luck.

MissWilmottsGhost · 20/05/2017 15:00

It may not get to the point where she hits him back portia

I was abused by my DB for years and I never hit him back because a) he was considerably bigger than me and I was terrified of him and b) I think hitting people is wrong and something only bad people do.

I was am very traumatised by what happened because I was not supported by my parents at all. I left home at 15 to get away.

barrygetamoveonplease · 20/05/2017 15:21

Move him out, not her. She should not have to suffer more because her brother is violent.
And move him out soon.
If his grandparents won't have him, speak to social services urgently.
Stop being such wimps and protect your daughter.

pictish · 20/05/2017 15:31

I'm another whose brother was sadistic towards me growing up. My mum was a wonderful mother but she did have a blind spot when it came to my older brother's cruelty and level of abuse.
I was defenseless as he was older by some years, far bigger than me and motivated by a hatred I simply did not possess.

I get on ok with my brother now...contact is scant and sporadic...but I do not love him. He was knowingly awful to me right up until I left home at 17 to get away from him. I have never forgiven him.

Gileswithachainsaw · 20/05/2017 15:39

Another one here who had to live with a brother who took great joy in hurting me often and a mother who excused his behaviour because he was younger or he didn't understand etc

He understood alright. Trust me what you havent seen is far worse than what you have.

Please find somewhere for him to go while you find a way to deal with his behaviour. Don't make her live like that

Andro · 20/05/2017 15:53

Surely the obvious choice is to move her to safety??

The obvious choice is to remove the attacker, not eject the victim - she needs her parents to support her not get rid of her (however temporarily).

KingJoffreysRestingCuntface · 20/05/2017 16:01

I can see why it's more obvious to move the attacker but as PP's have said there's probably loads of abuse that the OP hasn't even seen so chances are the daughter associates the house with abuse and violence and may be happier leaving it all behind.

I've been bullied thought my lifetime, including my childhood home and once I left I never went back. The place put me on edge.

yongnian · 20/05/2017 16:04

Another one here who experienced this very regularly...for all the years of my childhood to a degree where on one occasion DF was hospitalised by DB, after he tried to intervene when DB punched me in the side of the head. (I was sitting down at the time). DB was a strong teenager at this point, 4 years my senior. Nobody checked over my injuries and I was sworn to secrecy over that one. I never felt safe in my own home, because I wasn't.
I have experienced low self-esteem and depression all my life, inability to deal with conflict, and have a low-contact relationship with DM as a result (she prioritised him, never protected me and he remains her favourite) and am NC with DB. worst thing is, as I had it minimised all my life, I didn't even realise it was wrong until an adult and it also set me up to be drawn into some abusive relationships/situations.
I have never trusted my parents to look after my own children, and it took me a long time to understand why - because again, they didn't protect me.
It is really good that you recognise this for what it is - abuse. Keep asking for help for both of them, and keep them apart. Tell her you will protect her and do it.
For what it's worth, although I am NC with DB, it's more because he still lacks self-awareness about his aggressive tendencies and even at low levels of conversation, disagreements, he can be extremely coercive, manipulative and bullying. But I have eventually recognised that he was let down by our parents too. They were actually offered help for him....but refused it, ostensibly because they believed they could manage him (which they were never able to), but really because they were ashamed and embarrassed.
Only yesterday DM, over another situation, accused me of never allowing anyone to help me. It's not true - I just don't allow her to help as she never helped me all those years someone in my own household was violently abusing me, very regularly.
I look at my own two children and can say categorically I would never allow what happened to me, happen between them.
That said, I realise how hard this must be for you...but you owe to them to protect the one and get help for the other.

MrsCoulter · 20/05/2017 16:14

If he's over 14 he is over the age of criminal responsibility. You trying sanctions hasn't worked so to be honest I would call the police and support your Dd in pressing charges for assault.

It might make him realise how unacceptable this is.

If your Dd tells school then staff there would have to report to SS who may well take the view that you're currently not safeguarding her....

corythatwas · 20/05/2017 16:33

If you do nothing or just send her away without ascertaining that this is what she wants, then you are giving her a very clear message that she is less worthy of protection than her brother. This may not only make her feel unhappy now, but may have serious repercussions in how she thinks about her own safety and wellbeing later in life.

TheOnlyLivingBoyInNewCross · 20/05/2017 16:54

If she is sent away, she is going to feel that she is the one in the wrong and therefore the one to be punished. Her physical safety and emotional well-being should be the priority - and that may mean looking for alternative care for your DS if you cannot guarantee it with him in the house.

Happymonster · 20/05/2017 17:59

Definitely not sending DD away - in part that is want DS wants - he felt massively dethroned when she was born. That would send wrong message. In part not knowing how this could end up (i.e. If SS got involved I assume we'd lose any control we still have and who knows if they'd make right decision- especially as I know the local child protection services are in special measures).

Her safety is our priority but so is his. Thank you Barry for your empathy we are not wimps and we are trying to stop this and protect her. While we have had issues with him for a long time, it is only very recently that his aggression to her has escalated. Both children are equally precious to me. While his behaviour is totally unacceptable he is still only a child, my child.

Giving him a police record is not going to help things - we've mentioned to him next time police will be called - he said he'd hang himself if he got a record as it would stuff up his future.

I'd like to hear more from parents who have gone through this - fessmess does your DD still live with you, and did she sort out her issues?

OP posts:
kittytom · 20/05/2017 18:07

He wouldn't get a police record as he is 14.

I am not an expert or a social worker but I see many social care notes for my job and think if you don't refer yourself to social services for help (which will be something like intensive family support/early help hub/CAMHS) then your DD's school might one day and it will look better if you do. Plus wouldn't it be a relief to ask for help?

TimidLividyetagain · 20/05/2017 18:09

If he has autism and goes into care he may live miles away from you depending what placements there are where you live. And there he may become even more violent and meet other children with similar or more extreme difficulties. Also if he is violent a lot of residential places will refuse to take him because of the risk to others. He will also be able to make lifestyle choices you would not want as a parent but that are seen in that setting as age appropriate and lose a lot of your say over what happen with him. If there is any way you can keep them apart and safe at home try that first. I'm in Scotland and had a similar scenario. He went into care and escalated. He may have anyway. He learned worse behaviour and took up smoking at 13 a lifestyle choice. He won't ever forget I let him go even though I had to or lose my smaller kids he put at risk. But I don't know what the alternative is. Just if u do it realise that might be it he may never live at home again. I hope ur daughter is ok. It's very difficult

corythatwas · 20/05/2017 18:09

Why are you assuming that SS involvement would mean loss of control? We have had SS involvement due to dd's disability; didn't mean there was any threat of her being taken away, or indeed any suggestion that dh and I were not in charge as parents. What it did mean, however, was someone to bounce ideas off and someone who knew more about available support than we did.

Let's face it, the present situation is untenable. Your ds is old enough to do serious damage. A blow to the head, if unlucky, could kill your dd or leave her crippled for life. This would ruin his life for good, and yours.

His threat of suicide may be serious, but no more serious than the violence that is already happening to your dd. Something has got to be done. You have said yourself that you have run out of options: you cannot punish him and he cannot restrain himself. You need someone to help you think of other options.

I do understand how difficult it is, but I really do not think you are protecting your ds by not getting him help. You are only storing up trouble for the future- his future.

If you feel he is at imminent risk of suicide, then he would be a lot safer being sectioned than at risk of killing his sister.

corythatwas · 20/05/2017 18:13

Also, as long as you are not prepared to face outside involvement, you are committed to a course that means your dd will not get checked out medically after a head injury? How safe is this? What if she deteriorates suddenly and hasn't been able to tell anyone she's been hit on the head? When ds was hit over the head by some other lads (his own age and size) we sent a note in to school the next day so they would know if anything happened. Have you done this?

joannegrady90 · 20/05/2017 18:16

I sympathise op, I myself had a violent brother growing up. When I was first born he set fire to the curtains in an attempt to burn the house down as he didn't want a sister.

My mother left shortly after with myself, although it was easier for her as he was my father's son from a previous relationship.

To this day he is in and out of prison and I have no contact with him.

Sorry I have no advice op but I know how it breaks my dad's heart that we don't speak.

Hugs.

user76895432 · 20/05/2017 18:21

You need to do something OP. The current situation is untenable and cannot continue. Your poor DD must be constantly frightened. She is physically assaulted regularly by someone who is bigger and stronger than her and her parents are not safeguarding her. How awful for her. If she has had two blows to the head in the last week, it is only your good fortune that she hasn't been seriously injured. Are you going to wait until she ends up in A&E to do something?

It sounds like there are very limited consequences for your DS. He abuses his sister and then what? Nothing happens. TBH, you are way beyond solving this yourselves. You need immediate professional help.

I can understand that you are frightened by the treats of suicide but you seem more concerned about that possibility that what is actually happening to your DD right now in her own home.

Your best option is to self refer to SS. They won't swoop in and ride roughshod over everyone's wishes but they will consider the needs and safety of both your children.

If you wait until someone at DDs school asks her about her bruises - which will happen sooner or later - or you have to answer questions in A&E about a head injury then things may well escalate outside of your control.

MissHavishamsleftdaffodil · 20/05/2017 18:27

What a horrible situation for you.

Can you set up rigid rules at home for both children about where he is allowed to be in relation to her that mean the two are never at any time alone together, she is not allowed to get in his space, and he is not able to physically get to her if he loses his temper? And as much as possible, keep them very separate in the house. I've seen parents of adopted siblings do this when there's complex trauma and behaviour issues, and it can come right down to each child having a set place to sit at mealtimes and in the living room. This might mean if you go to the loo or have a bath, or need to be cooking in the kitchen or to take the rubbish outside, or have a phone call to deal with, one of them comes with you, or the children go into their rooms until you can supervise again. An internal lock on dd's bedroom door may also mean she has somewhere safe he can't enter where you can send her to be safe if you can't supervise or need to de escalate him.

I would be frank with them both about the reasons for the rules and the absolute unacceptability of hurting dd, as ds needs to learn now whatever his SEND and however he feels there are serious consequences for not being able to stop yourself hurting people, and dd needs to know you're not ok with this and won't allow it. Does ds have specific tools and strategies you expect him to use to calm himself or to get himself out of a situation when he's getting angry? A written plan of them, or a list, may help to draw up with him if not, particularly if he may have Autism and may find visual information easier.

Are CAMHS any help? Are there any private agencies in your area who work with behaviour and/or Autism? Many of those are happy to work with children who don't yet have a diagnosis, or who have features of ASD that need support but wouldn't qualify for a diagnosis.

I have seen one or two families reach the point where one parent stays in the home with the other children and the other parent temporarily lives somewhere else with the child who can't be safe. Not easily financially manageable for everyone, but I'll mention it in case it's a useful idea to you in any way.

corythatwas · 20/05/2017 18:30

Lots of good suggestions by MissHavisham. Also by user: self referring to SS is likely to leave you with much more support than being reported to them. In the first instance, you show that you are a responsible parent doing everything you can, someone they can work with. Also, they can put pressure on CAHMS to fast-track your referral if your ds is not already being seen.

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