Is this just my bad parenting?

[Kikikaakaa]

My DD14 seems to be out of control at the moment with her self control and it's having a profound impact at school. It is always rude, snappy, flying off the handle incidents where she shows little respect to teachers or pupils. When questioned on these, she just says she feels out of control with her feelings and emotional reactions to stress and pressure. She's like this at home too with any demands. She's intelligent but has little concentration or appearing to not care which I am not sure is a front for feeling out of her depth and a bit lost with school work. I just don't know.

We have had 2 assessments with CAMHS and due to start therapy for self esteem and emotional behaviours very soon.

This is not a new teenage issue, it's a slow burning once since she was a toddler. She's always had very dramatic and fast emotional reactions to demands/stress/pressure.

School are on board with me at present and cooperative and although they keep punishing her with detentions, they haven't been overly hard on her. But she has made enemies from many teachers who dislike her lack of respect and once she knows they don't like her, she just seems to be adverse to them and behaves badly more (I don't blame them by the way).

I also punish her at home when it is appropriate but not overly so - I don't want her to feel like she has nothing but punishment in her life and no point in even trying in anything.

This is the bit I am finding hard. I don't know if I am enabling her, too soft, looking for excuses for her behaviour or whether it's something more that's been missed. ADHD is something I can't get out of my head, she's never been formally tested apart from CAMHS questionnaires and they wouldn't give me a definite response to the results when I asked about it, instead they spoke about dealing with the behaviour not the label.

I have to take time off work and school to get her to these appointments and right now I am just feeling really down about whether there is more I can do, differently, and how to make things better.

I have a good relationship with her despite her bad attitude she is soft and caring when in the right mood. Also something that was mentioned by all the teachers is not just concentration but her mood swings. I know how to reprimand her and break these moods but obviously at school she doesn't get this, as she is expected to toe the line and follow rules and do as she is told.

She's otherwise a good kid who I just worry is messing up her education

[WankersHacksandThieves]

She sounds like a lot of teenagers, it's their job to push the boundaries. Most seem to turn into okay adults. Is it hormonal or is she like it all the time?

[Kikikaakaa]

Thanks, that's it maybe it is just normal! I am so confused. Are most teens getting detentions all the time and on school report? I know she isn't the only one but I don't know if that is normal?

She's like it all the time, and before she was a teen although it seemed to be more at home than primary school. With secondary school it was immediately clear she didn't like the changes from secondary to primary and 3 years later it's still the same if not worse.

[WankersHacksandThieves]

It's not "normal" in the sense that it's common/average and applies to most pupils, but it's normal in the sense that it's not outwith the bounds of what teenagers do.

If she has a history of not conforming and general misbehaviour then it's not just a teenage thing I would suggest. The difference is that she used to have boundaries she did conform to that were imposed by school, she is no longer (for whatever reason) seems bound by what school deem to be acceptable either so her poor behaviour has escalated.

I know you've said they are reluctant to give a label, that doesn't mean to say you can't use the same strategies with her that they would use but I am guessing it means that without the label, school are not inclined to "make allowances" or apply appropriate strategies?

I've fortunately not really found myself in this position so probably not helping other than bumping your thread a bit in the hope that someone more helpful comes along. It sounds tough though.

[Desperateforsleepzzzz]

I could have written this myself! Dd was eventually excluded from mainstream and now attends a behaviour unit. She has a diagnosis of ADHD but won't take medication so it hasn't really offered us any support! Dd holds grudges and is ridiculously dramatic and when I talk to her to correct her she erupts, no fear of authority, if she feels disliked she makes it her mission to be as noncompliant as possible. In her younger years she got more emotional but now anger is the emotion to mask everything. Her friendships are dramatic and genearally she has a best friend which is intense then they hate each other 😞. No amount of lovebombing , sanctions or anything else has helped and just escalates her behaviour.

[Bensyster]

I don't think it sounds like just normal teenage stuff....I think you need to pursue a proper assessment, can the school help you access an ed psychologist?

[JustDanceAddict]

Not just normal teen behaviour. I also have a 14 yr old and her behaviour at school is exemplary and pretty good at home - for a teen anyway! She has had some MH issues - anxiety mainly - but it doesn't affect behaviour. It's good you're in the system with Camhs and she's getting therapy, hope it works.

[jalopy]

Oppositional Defiant Disorder? Just a thought.

[Kikikaakaa]

I just don't know where to go with it, meeting with teacher next week to discuss further.

We have identified that there are 3 particular subjects that bring out this behaviour regardless of who the teacher is. I don't know if she finds the work too hard because she actually gets reasonable levels in assessment - she has NO educational needs it is all behaviour. And because it seems she can control it in some lessons and not others, it's seen as her choosing to be this way.
Whereas this is where I am 'soft' because I don't think it's a choice, it's triggers. The other subjects don't seem to feel so stressful so therefore, no bad behaviour.
It's the difference between me proving it's something she's not in control of when the evidence isn't there! This is why it's such hard work.

[Kikikaakaa]

I think what I find frustrating is that I know my daughter but I am worried I am blinded the unconditional love.
Because I know and see what a good person she is maybe I don't want to believe this is her choice to be awful. Maybe I want to believe it's something she can't help because that makes it easier?
But I just feel so sure, knowing her the way I do that any kind of stress or pressure, even small triggers these reactions. I really hope CAMHS can help with this. It isn't even like she doesn't want to take responsibility, she's compliant and sorry and WANTS to be 'good'. But in the moment, she loses it

[Astro55]

Very few teens are like this - a small percentages are on report - it's up to her if she wants to learn - however she can not keep disrupting others learning

You need a plan - the teachers will help -

Are the subjects core subjects?

[Kikikaakaa]

She seem to want to learn. Yes 2 core subjects and one language, I really regret convincing her to take the language (because I convinced her to go for the international baccalaureate) because I know she hates it. But she acknowledges what she needs to do, and I know when she is in the right frame of mind, she wants it too.
She's battling with her own internal dialogue as much as she is battling with school. I don't want to always be battling with her too. I want her to want this for herself not for me

I get really emotional when I think about this (like right now) because part of me just is angry with her the other just feels sorry for her

[Bensyster]

Your dd still needs your love and support. Something is causing her to behave like this, punishments are not fixing the problem so maybe it's time to try something else?
Hopefully the school will be as keen to get to the bottom of it as you are because she will be messing up her classmates education as well as her own. How are her friendships? Does she play any team sports? What does she like to do in her spare time?

[Astro55]

On a side note - see if you can get her vitamin D levels checked - makes a huge difference - look it up!

[Kikikaakaa]

Friendships consistently wobbly, appear to have stabilised currently but they aren't close. She's finally part of a group that don't keep kicking her out, often it was because of her own behaviour she has finally seemed to curb some of it. But they don't socialise much outside school and she's invited to nothing.

She does volunteer work that I got her into, and to my surprise she enjoys it and it's the first thing she hasn't dropped out of 😳

She does GCSE PE so a lot of team sports and she loves sport and is good at it but not enough confidence to join any actual team by herself.

[Kikikaakaa]

Thanks on the vitD. I'm not sure I could convince her to have a blood test it would trigger severe anxiety. Anything medical does. But I will try...

[Wishiwasmoiradingle2017]

Does she have face book? Learning from my 3x teen ds lots and lots of issues come from peer pressure /anxiety about friendship groups /social events etc all stemming from social media and the pressures it brings.

[LucyLamplight]

My 6 year old DS was just diagnosed with oppositional defiant disorder -the acting out in the moment seems to be something he does that starts things escalating. A lot of what you wrote resonates with me -I love my son immensely and just want things to get better. Big hugs to you.

[Kikikaakaa]

No FB but she went into secret other social media accounts for ages, including having a fake persona. This fake person was all damaged and needy and it was quite worrying. She's awful at hiding things but doesn't want to talk about it when I try to get her to open up. I explained the fake account was maybe just like an imaginary life to make her feel better? I don't know. Anyway I told her it won't help her, also it's dangerous to pretend to be someone you aren't and how vulnerable she could make herself. I let her have snapchat to speak to her friends which is monitored. She never posts picture publically and does seem to be interacting socially with people from school - now in a non destructive way because 2 years ago she used Instagram to bully someone who was bullying her (I saw it was 2 sided) so we go through that cycle now and again. But banning her completely just made her secretive about it

[Peebles1]

FWIW I think you're doing the right things in your handling of her. You punish sometimes, but not all. As my DM once said, if you're not on your child's side, who is?
She sounds similar to my DD at that age (now 18). In year 11 she had a complete melt down and was diagnosed with anxiety. She did OK at GCSEs but under achieved really. At 17 she went on meds to help with this, and with mild depression. I wasn't keen but they helped enormously. She scraped her way into Uni.
ADHD (inattentive type) never crossed my mind, though she kept insisting there was something wrong with her learning - couldn't concentrate. She thought dyslexia (her brother is) so went to Uni Student Support for a screening assessment. They said not dyslexia, but guess what - probable ADHD. It all fits now I think about her history. We're struggling to get a proper assessment (GP doesn't want to label - sound familiar?!). She doesn't want meds, but uni will provide one to one support if she's diagnosed, which would be brilliant.
So, long ramble and I'm not saying your DD is, but probably worth pushing a bit. You can pay privately apparently.
Also, she improved as she got older with moods etc. 14 was probably the worst. Your relationship with your DD sounds good and I promise you that'll be invaluable in helping her. Keep your chin up!

[Astro55]

Have you looked at high functioning autism?

She has similar traits to my DD - difficult friendships no social awareness - very 'well that way yesterday' in her approach to relationships and can't see that she's hurt someone emotionally.
Also with the anxiety another trait

[Kikikaakaa]

I'm glad your DD is supported at Uni, I can't see my DD ever coping with the stress of Uni or even 6th form if I am honest, let alone GCSE if this is how she is now, I'm totally terrified it will just get worse.
They don't want to label because in some ways it doesn't mean anything, but in other ways it does doesn't it?
It's not that I think she should be treated differently to anyone else but I just feel this urge to try to relieve the stress and at the same time try to teach her how to cope with stress.
Right now school aren't really doing anything to combat the stress they put on her (I mean it's school, that's just the way it is right?) so the pressure is all on me and DD to try to get her to fit in. Part of me would really like them to acknowledge that maybe there is a middle ground?

She consistently tells me she can't concerntrate; every school report in every subject with every teacher comments on her poor concentration. So she must be working extra hard to manage it at times? What seems to happen is that a teacher will call her out on it and she loses her rag. She never starts an argument with them about it. Then she feels picked on and angry and aggrieved and more stressed

[Astro55]

Have you looked at high functioning autism?

She has similar traits to my DD - difficult friendships no social awareness - very 'well that way yesterday' in her approach to relationships and can't see that she's hurt someone emotionally.
Also with the anxiety another trait

[Kikikaakaa]

I'm not sure, it's never occurred to me in that way. ODD and ADHD seem to fit her more accurately.

she can be crap socially as she's very self centred without self awareness and conversations usually revolve around her or only things she wants to talk about. She can play games though and always did as a child, small world play and appropriate play 'giving baby a bottle' type play. She is also brilliant with small children and likes adults company. Not so great with her peers but this is due to her explosive nature being very offputting and annoying. She knows she hurts people afterwards then feels upset about it but never learns.
Punishment doesn't seem to be the best incentive

[Peebles1]

You're right when you say a diagnosis does mean something - it means a lot to the person. It explains some of their feelings/behaviour/difficulties to them. DS was 9 when he was diagnosed with dyslexia, and he was hugely relieved. Suddenly he wasn't 'naughty' or 'stupid' - and he got extra support. He's excelled in life since.
If the school knew she had ADHD then teachers would be aware and treat accordingly (e.g. She needs homework explaining more than once etc).
She consistently tells me she can't concerntrate; every school report in every subject with every teacher comments on her poor concentration. So she must be working extra hard to manage it at times? What seems to happen is that a teacher will call her out on it and she loses her rag. She never starts an argument with them about it. Then she feels picked on and angry and aggrieved and more stressed
This sounds so familiar! Ever since primary school. And all the bit about her playing fine with dolls etc, and not quite knowing how to interact with peers. Sorry if I seem to be pushing a diagnosis on your DD that might be wrong, especially as mine hasn't even got a proper diagnosis yet so we might be wrong about her too. But it does sound similar.

[Kikikaakaa]

No it's helpful, thank you.
In many ways she always had textbook developmental milestones but her behaviour was always not right.
I can list all the many things I have done or tried in the past - I had heavy HV input from when she was 6 months to 4 or 5 years old. She didn't sleep, she breath held, she RAGED, she was violent, she didn't make friends. They were always lovely and supportive to me about it but nothing actually came of it.
Once she was in primary, we had endless issues with other girls and violence and anger to me - but this was attributed to me splitting with her dad around this time. We had counselling when she was about 7 because I was scared of her rages and couldn't control them/her.
This improved again until secondary.

The CAMHS assessor said it was very very clear that her history is a pattern of inability to cope with stress and extreme stress reactions but this doesn't help with school unless they can teach DD how to fit in.

I could try pushing GP for an assessment before she gets too old? I really need school to back me up as I know they will involve them.