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Inappropriate sexual behaviour course

(25 Posts)
HarHer Thu 18-Aug-16 19:02:42


My 15 year old has started some work with our social workers which aims to explore the reasons behind his inappropriate behaviour towards his older (autistic) brother and his behaviour towards his parents. The work is based on AIMS 2 training and Respect.

He went for his first session yesterday. I was very proud of him because he was incredibly anxious. However, he seems to be shocked by the content of the sessions.

After the introduction, he was given a book which had diagrams of what I can only infer were people engaging in various forms of intimate activities. I think he was asked which activities he felt were acceptable and which were not. He said he threw the book on the floor and told the social workers they should not be delivering this session because the book was published by the police.

I explained that a 'danger statement' on the Child Protection Plan was that his behaviour is criminal and needs to be addressed. I said that is why the booklets were being used.

Various other questions were asked and I sense that my son's responses were a mixture of bravado and worrying lack of empathy.

I want to support my son through this difficult time. I know that if I was 15 and I was being asked some of the questions my son is having to answer, I would be very defensive.

Yet, I am also worried. For example, the social workers told me (when I asked for feedback) that my son had said there was nothing wrong with hitting women as long as it's not too hard. Also, when he was asked what would happen if my eldest son went to he police, he said my eldest would not go to he police because he was too mixed up.

As I said, my son could be acting out of bravado. However, I have a queasy feeling that he is not, entirely.

Has anyone any tips on how I can help and support him? I fear that under the bravado, he is extremely upset.

OP’s posts: |
Meloncoley2 Thu 18-Aug-16 20:04:58

Is this DS have any additional needs?

HarHer Thu 18-Aug-16 20:14:09


My husband and older son has Asperger syndrome and my youngest son is diagnosed with Generalised Anxiety Disorder, but he may well have a form of autism. He doesn't seem to realise that he has done anything wrong

OP’s posts: |
user1471530515 Thu 18-Aug-16 22:28:37

Hiya. Does your / his GP , know he is undergoing this course .. ? As a family , what are the aims of it ? Sounds like a family you all need support /understanding .. ! X

Meloncoley2 Fri 19-Aug-16 03:07:31

Yes, I was picking up from your post that he isn't seeing that. Do you know whether the sw doing the work has knowledge/experience of ASD thinking? I think it is worth checking that out.

HarHer Fri 19-Aug-16 06:40:01


I am in the process of registering my youngest at our local GP. He has been living with my husband for a year and is registered at a pracice out of area. I have had to send off for his birth certificate because his original is lost and we have no ID for him. Once registered, I will begin the process of discussing referral for assessment. The female social worker has a son with Asperger syndrome and she has been very good with my eldest son. However, because my youngest has no diagnosis and presents as aggressive and uncooperative, he is treated differently. The ironic thing is that my eldest son (17) has much more empathy, sympathy and understanding than my youngest. For example, he says he does not want to get my youngest into trouble, but that the youngest needs help and is very unhappy. My youngest expresses no such sympathy or understanding for his brother, but he asks about him all the time and has chatted to him about cars (his special interest) animatedly when they have spoken on the phone.

In fact my youngest child's lack of empathy is very much like his father's. For example, I fainted a couple of days ago (nothing serious, it was a hot, stuffy evening). My youngest threw water on me to bring me round and then said 'Don't do that Mum. If you get ill I will have to go into care because there is no-one to look after me'. His father came round the next day and asked if he could have my PIN because if I died he would have no money to feed my son. I was quite funny from my perspective. Yet, the lack of empathy was quite apparent.
My son has to do the course. It is part of his Child Protection Plan and I have to ensure he attends (implicitly, his attendance is an assessment of my ability to parent him). Yet, like you, I wonder if they should be starting at a different level.
I am going to develop some strategies of my own, based on social stories. He needs telling explicitly how people feel when he does certain things. The problem for me, is getting past his bluster and bravado.

OP’s posts: |
bigTillyMint Fri 19-Aug-16 06:54:18

Gosh OP, this sounds terribly difficult.

When were your sons needs last assessed by medical professionals?
I ask because (as I'm sure you know) puberty can exacerbate ASD, etc and it may be that they would now be better placed to make an accurate diagnosis.

What support does he get in school? How do they manage his behaviour?

HarHer Fri 19-Aug-16 08:48:12


Tilly, my eldest is currently in a CAMHS unit, so he is undergoing further assessment. My youngest has had no detailed medical assessment. He has been observed by an Educational Psychologist for his Education Health and Care Plan and he was under CAMHS for four months until early his year. CAMHS stopped his treatment because he would not engage. Until the end of this academic year, he had 5 hours of tuition at home because he was too anxious/refused to go to school. The refusal has been going on since October 2014. When he attended school, he was quiet and withdrawn. The children were subject to Child Protection Plans from July 2015 until February his year, but nothing was really resolved. The abuse was contained because the boys did not live together. My youngest lived with his father (my husband) and my eldest lived with me. The abusive behaviour returned when my husband gave up his accommodation and went to live with a friend so my youngest had nowhere to go and I let him come to live with his brother and me. To my shame, I did not protect my eldest enough; yet I was not fully aware of what was going on.

My eldest will be going into supported accommodation and I am working hard with other agencies to find somewhere that will allow him to flourish. So, this is an ideal opportunity to help my youngest. One of the problems is that once Children's Social Care become involved, there is a dominant focus on parental capacity. There are issues there. I am perhaps not quite as vigilant as I should be (I mad a marvelously free and unrestricted childhood) and I am very gentle with the boys (because I see their vulnerability). However, that is not what has made one abusive, aggressive, misogynistic and violent (and he has been called all these things), nor is it what has sent the other spiraling into self destructive mental illness.

Yet, this may be an opportunity to really help my youngest. In addition to his 'course' he is being supported to attend his tuition sessions on a 1:1 basis at a local Pupil Referral Unit.

I apologise for the length of this reply.

OP’s posts: |
user1471530515 Fri 19-Aug-16 16:29:25

Hello OP ,

Can I first say , you come across as a lovely caring mum to your DC and they are lucky to have you... Do you have people to support you - it sounds like you have to carry all this by yourself ?

I so feel for you .. Was your son medically assessed before he started the course , any 15 yr old or anyone would struggle with the content - sounds like he needs coping mechanisms to help him express himself. I have a family member who has Aspergers , no a young adult , so appreciate what a 'fight ' everything feels - just because a kid is a bit different , and he had lots of 'self esteem ' issues
, which I believe is the basis of lots of behaviours . IMHO , his reaction , to you fainting , shows he knows you are really there for him .

I'm a first time replier here , but your post really touched me . If I'm allowed to say - have a look at , it has lots of advice about behaviour strategies for kids on ASD and understanding of why they act the way they do . It's a US site , but has lots of good advice and potential strategies .

Also have you heard of Mindfulness , to try and alleviate his anxieties , when you get a GP sorted , you could explore with that with them or through school /PRU.

I know there is no overnight fix , but as a mum to another , you sound like are doing great during very difficult times . I hope you as you I said , YOU , have support too .

Sorry my reply was long too. You can PM if you want talk , as I say I'm new to here .. ,

Take care of yourself ..

Meloncoley2 Fri 19-Aug-16 17:30:36

Sometimes being on a CP plan can open doors to services.
I certainly think it's worth considering ASD and sharing these thoughts with SW. If she has experience then it is more likely that she will see the need for the course content to be modified.

Meloncoley2 Fri 19-Aug-16 17:32:28

Just saying that the Generalised Anxiety Disorder diagnosis may be a bit of a smokescreen.

user1471530515 Fri 19-Aug-16 23:20:47

Last thought , what is your younger son's passion ? What makes him tick .. ,you mentioned cars with his elder brother .. What do they both like about that .. ? Is this an avenue exploring , communication between both , sounds great X

HarHer Sat 20-Aug-16 06:31:33


Thank you so much for you replies. My younger son is really interested in Japanese Cares (JDM). As a way of increasing his skills of social interaction and communication my husband (who still sees us regularly) and I take him to car shows and meetings. He has approached fellow enthusiasts and talked to them about their vehicles. His knowledge about the subject is expensive and specialised and he will turn the topic of conversation to cars so that he can control the discourse (and avoid any tricky topics).
I know very little about cars, but I help him organise his notes and take down information in different ways and we use maps and work out the price of petrol to get to venues etc. He has so much potential, but he will probably leave 'school' with no qualifications (his brother's education also broke down in Year 10).
My eldest son is interested in cars, but his true fascination is the weather. Hopefully, he will start college when he is in his supported accommodation and then he will get the English and Maths qualification he will need to do an Access course and perhaps study meteorology.
The boys are fascinating young people, but my youngest does need help with some aspects of his behaviour. I am just afraid that he genuinely does not understand that he has done anything 'wrong' and this needs to be addressed.

OP’s posts: |
campervancharlie Mon 22-Aug-16 02:08:25

Hi HarHer,
It sounds like an incredibly difficult situation to manage. It is so good to hear you still talking so positively about your son.
The AIM2 is an assessment tool to tell 'the professionals' how much supervision your son might need and it will also help identify some of his other needs. This will help with containing the legal aspects of his behaviours. (I am assuming that when you say the course is 'based on AIM2' that you mean it is run by people who are accredited to use it - not just social workers who thought it would be a good idea)
I wonder if a full psychiatric assessment would shed more light on the matter. While AIM2 might help assess for interventions, it assesses under its own headings. It is not a tool that might tell you if your son had any of the multitude of disorders which can lead to a lack of empathy. It is useful because it is diagnostic of need - but it will not diagnose your son and it sounds like that would be helpful. What were the recommendations of the ed-psych?

HarHer Mon 22-Aug-16 06:42:59


Thank you for your replies. The Ed. Psych. recommends, amongst other things: a behaviour management course; mindfulness and relaxation sessions to help him manage his anxiety; Emotional Literacy building programmes to help increase his understanding of how his feelings work. I can help him a great deal at home, but we are very socially isolated and my son is genuinely scared and avoidant of social situations. I hope he will get the chance to be introduced, very gently to at least one other peer when he starts going to the PRU.
I know the social worker who is delivering the AIM 2 programme has been trained to use it and the social worker who is co-delivering specialises in 'sibling abuse'. Therefore, we are quite fortunate to have people with appropriate training and qualifications to deliver the programme. However, neither social worker seems to truly understand my youngest son and I feel so sorry for him. My eldest son, despite his very challenging behaviour, is charming, obviously vulnerable, and very very compliant. He is an extremely endearing young man. However, my youngest is, withdrawn, prone to aggression, defensive and avoidant. People from agencies have said that he flourished at school and had friends until recently. However this is untrue. He attended school until 2014, but he was quiet and withdrawn. Teachers mentioned that he hardly spoke in class. He had one special friend at a time, but he was obsessive about the friend, followed the friend around and would drop in at the friend's house uninvited. As parents, we were a little pre-occupied by my eldest who would frequently run away, break things and self harm. One by one, the special friends distanced themselves from my son and I believe he was bullied (all this is deduced from things my son is saying now). He was in the bottom set of almost all academic subjects despite his obvious intelligence. I want to help him and I love him unconditionally, but no-one seems to want to work with him on a truly caring level.

OP’s posts: |
SpecialAgentFreyPie Mon 22-Aug-16 09:23:09

Har I can't offer advice, but my DS1 is very likely to have similar issues when he is older. I really empathise with you, and you sound like a truly wonderful parent.

HarHer Fri 02-Sep-16 07:10:31


I am sorry for adding to this thread again. However, an event has arisen that is worrying me, although I hope it will be nothing more than procedure in the end.

Yesterday I visited my eldest at the CAMHS unit. He was agitated and said our social worker and a police officer had been to see him. He told me the police officer was asking a lot of questions relating to the allegations of abuse that he made when he was interviewed for a forensic assessment. The allegations relate to incidents that occurred over two or three months in 2014-5 and these incidents were discussed and documented in our first Child Protection proceedings (in summer, last year).

Our social worker told me he had to inform the police about the allegations (again) because they appeared in the report. However, I assumed that since they were already known to the police, my youngest is now receiving some intervention and the boys do not live together (and will not do so in the near future), there would be no need for further inquiry.

However, the police officer asked my eldest for more details, appeared to cross-examine his account and talked about taking my youngest to court and a video link etc. My eldest son was very distressed.

I have reassured my eldest son that he has done the right thing by being honest and that the police and CSC knew about the incidents anyway and it is all a good thing because his brother will now get the help that he needs.

However, I am really upset. I don't know how often these incidents will keep being dragged up and acted on. I worry about a dawn raid (The police arrested my eldest son because he expressed thoughts about killing people; I have no doubt they could arrest my youngest for abusing his brother).

I am also confused about the way this is all unfolding, but I know I have to remain strong for my children.

Do you think my youngest will be arrested? I am really scared for him. I am also confused that the police have interviewed my eldest almost as if they are threatening him (e.g. with his brother's trial)

Any advice is welcome.

OP’s posts: |
Claramarion Fri 02-Sep-16 16:13:43

Are you uk?? How old
Is your older at son if he is under 18 or
Would not have the capacity to understand or the questions would distress him due to his diagnosis he should have been offered an appropriate adult to sit with him.
Social services by law have to investigate and if anything is being taken further this will depend on evidence?

HarHer Fri 02-Sep-16 19:33:59


My youngest son is 15 and my eldest is 17. I have spoken to our social worker today and he was very apologetic. He said that his team had informed the CAMHS unit that the police would be visiting my eldest , but somehow the message had not been responded to appropriately and my son was unprepared. The social worker added that my eldest became very distressed towards the end of the interview and the social worker and the police agreed that his mental health could be damaged by legal proceedings. The police and our social worker were reassured that my youngest is co-operating a little more with the programme.

There is a par of me that wonders what exactly went on and what exactly has been disclosed and if it really was so bad, why on earth I did not notice sooner.

OP’s posts: |
Claramarion Fri 02-Sep-16 20:04:54

I think we always think the worse I must say and although I have little knowledge you're younger son does sound as though he's possibly on the autistic spectrum also. I would take what ever help is offered and knowledge understanding and help for both sons will be beneficial in the long run x good luck and remember we can all only try out best parenting Dosent come with a book and then when you add family dimensional and children with additional needs we can really only do our best.

Claramarion Fri 02-Sep-16 20:05:33

I think we always think the worse I must say and although I have little knowledge you're younger son does sound as though he's possibly on the autistic spectrum also. I would take what ever help is offered and knowledge understanding and help for both sons will be beneficial in the long run x good luck and remember we can all only try out best parenting Dosent come with a book and then when you add family dimensional and children with additional needs we can really only do our best.

user1471530515 Fri 02-Sep-16 22:45:06

Hello Harher ,
Sorry it's late , I saw your post this morning , but only just had time to reply . I hope you are doing ok ... and your older son has been looked after and feeling calmer . Both your sons are vulnerable and teenagers and should be spoken to accordingly by the police , sadly this is not always the case . I think you need more support with this , apart from 'his apology ' what is your SW now saying about the process for your elder son . Also have you been able to get your younger son , assessed down the medical path , maybe the PRU and your GP can help to access this as a priority .

You seem to be 'in a process/procedure ' - that sometimes overlooks 'the ones involved ' and how it should be handled , especially around MH of children / young adults .
As I said before , you sound a lovely caring mum, and my heart goes out to you .. , I hope you have some real life support .
If you want to PM me , I would be willing to talk to you about my experience / thoughts how things are managed at times.

I hope you and your sons had a calmer day . When is your younger DS to start back at the PRU ?

Hugs flowers
Take care .

HarHer Wed 07-Sep-16 19:14:43


Just a quick update. My youngest son has been invited to attend an 'interview under caution' at our local police station with respect to the disclosures that were made in the assessment my eldest son undertook. Our social worker will be an 'appropriate adult' (due to the familial nature of the inquiry) and I have been advised to contact a solicitor to be present at the interview.

Do you think this will draw a line under the incident and my sons will be able to move on?

OP’s posts: |
user1471530515 Wed 07-Sep-16 20:12:14

I've tried to PM you! - sorry new to this . Has a meeting been arranged- /date set etc . You need a solicitor ! PM me ...x

Gallievans Sat 10-Sep-16 19:14:37

Hi HarHer
Firstly I hope you've got a solicitor and also someone who can support you.

Secondly, it is VERY hard to spot abuse in the home. The abuser will hide it and the abused feel that they are somehow to blame. I know this as I was a witness in a child protection case involving sexual abuse and the poor mother knew nothing about it until the police turned up (and I'm not saying any more about that).

It does sound as though your poor youngest has issues, but hopefully these will be sorted. This is going to sound very harsh as you sound like a wonderful mother, but if only your eldest is currently living at home I would focus on getting him through this safely and into a place where he can flourish. You can be there for your youngest - but I think his reaction to your faint was more a case of how it would affect him, and his statements about violence towards women worry me.

As well as a solicitor for your youngest I would suggest getting an advocate for your eldest at least, that they can talk to without fear of upsetting you / their father and that can reassure them, as well as you, that they are doing the right thing.

Above all, I hope you get some support for yourself as well through what must be an absolutely awful time.

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