Sons girlfriends

[Ineedanapasap]

Sorry for such a long post and please do not judge me as a bad mother as that is what happened last time.

I have 2 sons. 19 and 17. They are both in relationships with girls of the same age. My eldest had been with his just over a year and my youngest with his 2 years.

They are both lovely girls but I feel like there are some problems between them. The eldests girlfriend had basically lived with us from the day they got together until my son went on a week holiday in the summer (4 months) whilst the youngests parents were very strict and wouldn't let her come over most week nights until she had left school and didn't let her stay until after her 16th birthday in the summer. I feel like this made her very jealous of the elder girl.

When my son left for his holiday his gf obviously went home for the time my son was away but we still chatted though texts and Facebook regually. The day she went home I got told by my younger son and his gf that my elder son and his gf had been smoking in the house while I was away the week before he left for his holiday, I then searched his room and found cigarette butts and bottles of half drank flavoured vodka in his room and 2 empty litre cider bottles in the recycling. My son and his girlfriend were 18 at the time so it was perfectly legal but I was obviously fuming as I would never allow smoking inside the house and I had never known my son to be smoking or drinking like that so out of anger I blamed the girlfriend and said she was no longer welcome in my home. I never discussed this with her as I wanted to talk to her and my son together when he got home. No more than 2/3 days later the girlfriend received a very nasty text calling her a drug addict and alcoholic and loads of other nastiness and saying she was no longer allowed in my house. Upset by this she sent me screenshots of the text and explained that she wasn't like that, after speaking to her mum I came to the understanding that she wasn't a big drinker and she has never been a smoker either. I apologised to the gf and explained that I was angry and I know it wasn't her fault, all was forgiven.

Until a few hours later when the gf found out how this misterious texter got this information. My youngests girlfriend has sent one of her friends a screenshot of a conversation between her and my son in which she had blamed the elder girl for my sons behaviour and my younger son had told her I had said she was no longer welcome. They both denied all knowledge of this screenshot being sent. I left it as that as the elder girlfriend was happy as long a i knew the truth about her and didn't want to cause problems.

A week later my son returned from his holiday and I assumed everything would go back to normal with his girlfriend. But it didn't, she tells my son she does not feel welcome in the house anymore and she hasn't stayed over since before the holiday. On the days she does come over she spends a lot of time downstairs watching tv and talking with me but as soon as my younger son come home with his girlfriend she hides away in my sons room or even leaves to go home. This only happened with the girlfriend, she is fine with my son and talks to him and get along with him fine. This is very upsetting for me as we had a very good relationship and I do miss her a lot.

Recently it had come to my attention that the younger gf actually did know about the the text that had got sent and the people she had denied knowing actually turned out to be some of her and my sons friends. I also hear a lot of the time the younger girlfriend making remarks and sometime quite bitchy comments about the elder girlfriend. I just don't know what to do as I love both the girls and I have a good relationship with both but there is obviously problems between them that neither are willing to sort, either out of fear of causing to much drama or just not wanting too and lying about it. 

I'm also having a lot of problems with the younger girl recently. She has started to be quite rude to me and my partner, disobeying us and lying to us. She has also started upsetting my son by being very controlling and not letting him have a social life out side of her.

Would it make sense to just tell her that she can't spend as much time over ours now? As she is spending most nights here. To give the elder girl a chance to come back into the family and start spending more time with us and also to give my son a break from her. Or would this cause more problems?

I really need some advice as o don't have experience with this at all as this is my youngests first relationship and the first of the eldests girlfriends we have been involved with.

I tried posting this a few days ago but I got it deleted as one person replied with vey personal information about her family and their names. I thought I'd give it a try again as I'm still no clearer on what to do. Few things that came up in the last post that I can add now.

Both my sons work full time and pay me rent, the eldest girlfriend works full time too and while she was living with us she contributed too by helping tidy, helping me with the shopping and helping me cook. I never asked her for money as this was not appropriate to me. My home is also my sons home regardless of them paying rent so I feel that as long as they are respecting me and my rules they are free to do as they please. Although some of you may feel it was not appropriate to have the girlfriend to stay as much as she did, I don't agree.

Another thing that was said a lot is i am too involved and I'm making matters worse by getting close to the girls. Although valid points I have to disagree yet again. Maybe I might be but my sons come to me and I give advice like any mother would. I wouldn't say I get involved too much, I've tried to stay nuteral with everyone and this post is really the only involvement I have had. I also don't think me being close to the girls is a bad thing, they are my sons girlfriends therefore are now part of my family whether you think the relationship with just dye off and not last. At 19 years old it's not to crazy to think that that relationship may last a long time. But even if they do break up, whether in a week or however long, whilst they are with my sons they are part of my family IMO.

I would just let them get on with it and not care but I rarely get to see much of my eldest as he is always at his gfs house due to her not feeling happy in my home. I also can't just leave them to sort it out as it will not get sorted. The youngest girlfriend is very immature as she has been very mollycoddled up until her 16th birthday so it's hard for her to maturely sort things out. She get very upset very quick and she often lies if she thinks the truth will get her in trouble.

Thank you and I appreciate the advice I get given even if I disagree.

[FauxFox]

Both girlfriends should treat you politely and respect your home by not smoking in it etc.

If either are disrespectful you should call them on it and resolve things as adults.

I think you need to step back from the minutiae to be honest - it's between them. As long as older son is happy to spend time with his GF elsewhere there is no issue. You might well miss seeing them but they are adults and could easily move out/abroad/whatever. You need to detach a bit - who has time for all this?

[Ineedanapasap]

I don't work unfortunately as I am unable to due to an illness so I do have a lot of time for this whether I want to or not

Thanks for your reply. I have tried to take a step back but i just don't have the option because this is creating problems between everyone involved. Even my partner is getting stressed from all this.

[Ineedanapasap]

Another thing that has popped up over the last week or so, the elder girlfriend is a very pretty girl and I must say very talented in doing her hair and her make up when she does it. She also is, like most girls her age, very keen on fashion and loves new shoes and clothes. She had come over one day with her hair in 2 Dutch braids, the next day younger girlfriend had same hair. A few days later she had her hair in fishtail plaits, next day younger girlfriend had same hair. When I told her about the younger girl doing this she just laughed and made a joke about her being an inspiration.

Elder girlfriend also brought a pair of shoes about a month ago that comes in serval colours. The colour she wanted was out of stock at the time so she ordered her second choice, a few days ago the colour she oringinally wanted came back in stock so ordered them online on Sunday and they were due to arrive tomorrow. On Monday the younger girlfriend and her mum went into the shop they were ordered from and brought the shoes in the colour elder girlfriend wanted meaning she now already has them. This did upset her a bit but she didn't make a fuss as at the end of the day it's only shoes but I can tell she is really pissed off.

Now for the real big issue. The elder girlfriend has 8 tattoos. 4 of which are covering scars and 1 random which she got when she was 16. The other 3 are meaning full to her. She has one on her ribs that come from a picture her late grandad draw, a lot of others on her mums side of the family have some sort of variation of this tattoo. It's a very nice tattoo, really cute so I could see why others want this. Younger girlfriend and son were talking about getting tattoos and gf mentioned one she is planning to get that seemed very similar, if not the same, to elder girlfriends tattoo. Elder girlfriend politely said that seems the same to her tattoo could she please get something different as it's very personal to her and her family, which is understandable. She didn't make a big deal even though it upset her as it's something that may not even happen. Yesterday I got told that younger girlfriends uncle has said he will do her tattoo for her and she is dead set on getting the same tattoo as elder girlfriend. This has now really pissed off elder girl and she has been in tears and son is refusing to talk to me.

I don't feel like I can do anything about this though as I have no right telling someone which tattoo they can not have. Elder girl had asked her to not do it and she still is going to so what else can i do?

[BIWI]

You posted this the other day, didn't you? Why are you posting it again?

[Ineedanapasap]

I did say, it got deleted as there was personal comments about someone family with names and pictures.

[BIWI]

Well I'll give you the same response! You are way, way way too involved in this - it's absolutely nothing to do with you.

Leave them alone.

[Mumof2lovelys]

I was going to say it just sounds like jealously. The original post just screamed to me that the younger girl was jelous of the older girl spending so much time and having a good relationship with you. The hair and shoes aren't a huge issue, again just jealousy.

But the tattoo, that is crossing a line. Even if it was just a generic tattoo it would still be a very personal thing and to have someone copy that isn't fair at all. You can't stop her getting it but you need to explain to her that is 100% out of order and it is upsetting the other girl. I would even speak to her mum and explain. There are millions of tattoos she could get, why does she need to steal one?

[Ineedanapasap]

I don't feel that way. It is my house, my sons and they are upset and coming to be for advice. I did say in my OP that that isn't a option but thanks for the advice anyway.

I will speak to her about it and try talk her out of getting the same tattoo. I don't feel like speaking to the mum would help, shes one of those people the if you tell them not to do some thing it will encourage them to do it even more

[pinkyredrose]

Is the youngest girls uncle a tattoo artist? If she's 17 then it's illegal to get tattooed anyway.

I disagree that you've been neutral, you immediately banished the elder girl when you found used cigs and bottles in your sons room before trying to finding out the truth. Why would you do that? Did you think your older son was the golden child who'd been led astray?

[AnyFucker]

Wow. I can't imagine knowing this much detail about my grown children's lives and partners. I just would not be interested.

Mind you, I don't let them live in my house.

[Iflyaway]

Yea. I agree. Way too overinvolved.

What is it about your own life you are avoiding?

I'm a LP to an adult son - bit older - no way would I get involved in his relationships other than to welcome them when they are here.

Mind you, I would never have any girlfriend over to virtually live in my house and certainly not when they should be in school/training/work...

[Iflyaway]

... DS that is.... (them as well, of course).

[itmustbemyage]

I'm not really sure why you are posting? You are not listening to the replies you are getting and I think to be honest you are not going to get the response that you want. If you are convinced that the way you are handling all this drama is the correct way why put yourself in the position where people are judging you. IMHO you are way too involved, I presume that both of these girls have their own mums? They are of an age where they can fight their own battles and even if they were younger they are not your responsibility.
I say this as a parent of a 16 year old son who has a girlfriend.
I wish you well, because this is obviously causing you upset but you need to let go.

[CodyKing]

disobeying us and lying to us.

Why does a visitor need to obey you?

I also think you are over involved - why are GF allowed to live with you? They have their own homes and mothers - it's not down to you to sort them out they aren't your children

You need to tell your sons that you can't or won't get involved -

My DD have braids and fishtails - are you upset about that? It's called fashion

[ItWasNeverASkirt]

I can completely understand why you feel involved -- this is all happening in your house! So of course it affects you. If they don't want you to be involved, they should be moving out elsewhere.

[UptownFunk00]

I'd send a text to the younger girl if you have her number.

A generic one of sorts that she is always welcome in your house but she has to treat you and DP with respect and not make comments to other members of the household.

If she asks what type of behaviour she's been exhibiting, tell her what she has said/done.

As frustrating as her behaviour with your son is, he has to put his foot down himself unfortunately. Except if she makes a rude comment in front of you in which case I would say the same rule applies as above.

My DDs are 3 and 3 months, dread them getting to this stage!

[Ineedanapasap]

I never said the problem was with the hair, both can do what the please, just a bit odd how younger girl never did anything with her hair the whole time she has been seeing my son then as soon as elder girl did these styles younger copied.

Visitors don't have to obey me of that is all they are. But she has become more than just a visitor now and k don't have any crazy rules to obey, I just expect her to be respectful and if she asks to do something then at least attempt it.

The girlfriends staying didn't effect any of them going in to work or college so I'm not sure how that is relevant?

When my son has never been drinking or smoking before and the only thing changed is his girlfriend then I am going to assume it was something to do with her. I now understand it wasn't anything to do with her and more to do with the fact he had only just turned 18.

I also didn't provide any info about girls home life's so how can you just presume that everything was fine and dandy so she should be at home. My sons enjoy spending time with the girlfriends and it makes them happy to have them stay so regardless of them having heir own homes they are welcome to stay as they like. Whilst the girlfriend was living with us her mum was actually in hospital and she could not stand to be alone with her step dad so I wasn't going to send her home for her to be uncomfortable and miserable. The other girlfriend has never stayed anymore that a couple of nights a week as her parents want her home.

I'm posting because I wanted advice on the best way to handle this, I don't feel like anyone is judging, they are helping see it from an outsiders point of view. I'm not not listening to the advice, I'm just responding and explaining as certain things change how to deal with things. The magority seems to say just stay out of it so that is what I should do from now on.

Both girls have parents of course, but if the girls want to talk to me and come to me for advice or need a safe place to stay if home life is bad then I will of course be there.

Of course I am going to be involved they are my sons living in my home. There isn't anyway for me to not be involved unless I just straight out told them to leave me out. I didn't know that it would be appropriate for me to that as it would look like I'm not willing to support my children.

I have both girlfriends parents to come over tomorrow afternoon and sit down with me, both my sons and both the girls. Copying a personal family tattoo was the last straw and I decided that if they are acting like children I will treat them as such and called the parents to come over and talk. I hope this helps but I feel it may put an even bigger wedge in between me and elder girlfriend as in all this I don't feel like she has been much of a problem and avoided all drama and arguments other than the recent tears.

[Ineedanapasap]

During the conversation with the parents I will make it very clear to all of them that in future I would rather just be left out it aswell as that seems what most the advice is.

I will not be stopping girls from coming over or staying over though and I will still continue to try have a close relationship with my sons and their girlfriend and always offer my home as a safe place if they need to get away and will always be around to give advice as long as it doesn't drag me into all their drama.

[Jennyf68]

If you want my honest opinion you are perhaps to involved but each and every parent deals with things differently. If I am correct it was you who mentioned in a previous post that you had been a single parent for almost 10 years before you met your partner? Usually in situations like that you develope a closer relationship with your children so to me it's understandable that you are so involved. Me personally, I wouldn't get involed at all unless my sons or daughter asked me too.

It's very nice of you to offer your home as a place from sons girlfriends to get away from problems at home. I have done that for almost a year from my daughters friend who has an awful home life so I can understand why you had eldest girl to live with you. Do you know why she is uncomfortable around step dad? That may be a deeper, possibly very worrying issue.

Hopefully you can resolve all this with their parents tomorrow. Whilst reading I was actually going to suggest having them over to talk about this. Things get serious and worrying when an underage girl is going to get a tattoo copying a very personal family tattoo and that is where I would draw the line too.

For future reference, just stay out of their dramas.

[CodyKing]

I don't understand why you need to talk to the girls parents

They are using you as a surrogate mom - they want you to sort out their problems - which quite honestly are like toddlers -

Fine to be asking advice - but not to put you in the middle of trivial arguments - they are or should be capable of dealing with it themselves.

What do you hope the parents will take away from this meeting?

What exactly are you planning on saying?

You just need to be straight with GF - sorry I can't advice on her shoes or hair or tattoo - I can't tell her not to do X - if you don't like it - you tell her and keep me out of it !

Do you take sides with one DS over the other?

[BackforGood]

I agree with everyone else - you are WAY too over involved.
I have dc of 20, 17, (and a younger one) so am at a similar stage, but I wouldn't be 'texting and facebook messaging' ds's girlfriend. I have her number in case there's a practical arrangement, but I'm not her mate.

The relationship between my dcs and their partners, or between each of their respective partners is nothing to do with me.

[Ineedanapasap]

Yes that was me and in future I will be staying out of it.

It was actually the elder girls mum who called me asking if she could get the number of the younger girls parent so they could talk about the tattoo situation as its really offended her and her family and I didn't think it was great idea as he younger girls mum really isn't an understanding person and is very a spiteful sometimes so I decided to get them all together and resolve the issues.

Elder girlfriend never asked me to get involved in the shoes, hair, tattoo issue. Nothing was said to younger girl about it other than could she please get a different tattoo for reasons I've stated.

[Patapouf]

Christ, you are a nightmare MIL in waiting.

You actually seem to quite dislike your younger sons girlfriend, who is only a child. She is just copying someone's style that she admires. You are majorly shitstirring the tattoo non-issue by calling a multi family meeting.

If someone wanted to get the same tattoo as me I have no right to stop them, I don't own it and whether or not it's 'meaningful' is irrelevant.
Get a hobby, you shouldn't be so over invested in your sons lives. Taking a step back isn't being unsupportive, it's called minding your own business.

[Patapouf]

Well, that was blunt but there's no point sugar coating it. Nobody on MN is going to tell you that it's fantastic you are so involved in their lovelives TBH

[Onfleek]

In reply to patapouf it's not a "non-issue" it has upset the older girl and her family. Yes, you'd have no right to stop them but you'd be upset surely? This is something designed by her grandad who has passed away that all her family have. It isn't some generic tattoo that everyone and their mother has, it's a personal family tattoo. She has also been asked not to get it and was given a damn good reason.