Anger and aggression

[JustTenMinutesPeace]

Name changed.
My dd is 12 and for the last few years is being increasingly violent, disrespectful and downright rude.

I know that some "things" are expected with hormones etc, and I could ignore teenage rants of how I ruin her life because she can't have her iPod overnight etc, but tonight she held me by the hair and punched me in side of head then kicked me in face. Why? Because I was telling her off for not looking after her things ( I was low down as I was picking up a schoolbook off her floor so it didn't get damaged in the chaos of her room)

DP and I are 5 weeks into a 6 week counselling course. She's not really telling us anything we didn't already know from books/forums/common sense, but it was good to have someone to talk to. She has strongly recommended I contact the police.
The thing is, dd can also be very sweet, kind and loving. My parents, who see her several times a week, didn't believe me til I videoed her (secretly). She refuses to see a counsellor or even phone a helpline anonymously.

Because it isn't an all the time thing I'm hesitant to get police/social services involved. I want her to get help without them.
Does anyone have experience of similar and can give me any advice?

[Heyho111]

I'm sending you a hug.
Getting the police involved next time she hurts you is a good idea. They will give her a serious chat about where her behaviour could lead to. This might make her realise what she is doing. At the moment she feels that what ever she does you will be there. She needs to know that you are and will be until she goes too far and her actions is sticking her toe over the line.
You really need to get her to councelling and may be the police can convince her too or Can school help her access their councellor. It's very hard dealing with a child so full of hormone /anger issues.

[JustTenMinutesPeace]

I'm just worried that if police get involved, even just as a warning, it'll start us down the path of social services and labels etc. I don't want our life under a microscope all the time ( have a friend who dealt with situations like ours for her job, who has been amazing, but also says she would avoid ss if possible)

Dd also said tonight she would say we beat her up if I go to speak to school counsellor :( I know they will be able to tell truth from lies but it's still scary!

Just need a way to help her calm down. She can be so amazing. Feel like I'm letting her down.

[bowbear]

Another hug from me! We have had major anger issues with our DD but her wrath has been aimed at her bedroom walls. I have no experience of SS but if your DD is behaving like this I do think it may be helpful to get the police to have a chat with her - can you go and speak to an officer before and perhaps discuss what support they can offer before they speak with your DD? She must be going through so much turmoil to make her behave like this but you can't bear the brunt of her violence without there being some repercussions to her actions. Do you have a good GP that you could speak to? maybe you could make an appointment for yourself and talk it through before taking your DD along. If she could be persuaded to speak to a counsellor or your GP that would be a good start. So sorry you are going through this x

[JustTenMinutesPeace]

Thanks :) will call the GP today and see what they say about me coming in myself. Will see how that goes before the police!

[GristletoeAndWhine]

Sorry, no advice, but experience of similar with my 12 yo DD2. It is not normal or to be expected, because DD1 doesn't behave like this. DD also refuses to see the school counsellor. I found a psychologist for her to see who specialises in this age group, but she refuses to go. We are similarly at the end of our tether. Punishments just make her more angry and abusive. What have you tried in terms of punishments / rewards and all that. Presumably nothing works?
My DD is better during school term time than holidays, so I am hoping for a bit of respite now that school has started back. I had not thought of speaking to the police. Seems quite drastic. I would be interested to hear how you get on with the GP.

[JustTenMinutesPeace]

Punishments/rewards wise...
As much as I thought I would never use it, "time out" for yelling and violence. She knows its because its dangerous to us, ESP her baby sister, and because when she calms down she knows its unreasonable.
I do expect an apology afterwards, and I give her a cuddle.
A problem is getting get away from us. She point blank refuses to leave room and I do feel v threatened, ESP when her sister is in the room. We have tried leaving the room and also tried physically moving her from the room. Both risk bruises.

She is v lazy and often the tantrums will start because she point blank refuses to do simple things like showering and cleaning up after herself. She wants to watch tv/play video games all the time. ( both have been confiscated for over a month, though we let it slide on Christmas Day) it's just not enough incentive. We just don't know what is!
Her room smells awful and these mould growing. Its downstairs so hard to escape smell but honestly couldn't get to the window safely ( mould is around window too). Its so dangerous to her health.

Last night, after the huge altercation I calmly removed half the stuff from her floor. This morning I removed the rest, so she just has her school stuff, 1 change of clothes, lamp and alarm clock. ( and lots of rubbish - food packaging etc- but need to wait til baby naps to sort that.)

Would also like to point out we try to spend a lot of positive family time together. Before Christmas she stayed up late waiting for DP to come home from work (-about 10pm) and we had half an hour just the three of us so she had undivided attention. We saw some improvements in behaviour overall and was supposed to restart last night. Will try again tonight.

[18yearstooold]

Does she know you've removed her stuff today? (I'm imagining the reaction, ouch!)

It sounds like you are describing my daughter, she's absolutely foul and refuses help that has been offered to her because 'i'm fine, if idiots can't accept that then they can all fuck off'

She had a tantrum last night because I wouldn't plug her phone charger in for her -she could do this by leaning over and moving her arm but I would have had to have got up to do it

She didn't shower at all over the Christmas holidays although behaviour wise she was calmer

I've had individual counselling which has helped me realise that i'm not a terrible parent, I make the best decisions I can to keep everyone safe and I just have to keep going

I think this behaviour is more common than we think its just no one talks about it

[JustTenMinutesPeace]

Yes, she knows as I started last night but it was late and we needed sleep.
In all honesty, while she might be upset at having the stuff removed. I genuinely feel she will be relieved that the mess will be gone! Its one less thing for her to deal with (though she will be doing her own laundry as there was about 4 loads worth on her floor - most was still unworn since I last washed it, but dirty as walked over etc.

[springlamb]

My dd is now 13 (and a quarter!).
Last year things were so horrendous that I couldn't see her continuing to live at home through her teenage years. Every minute she was in the house we were on a knife edge. We were monitoring where all the scissors were, and hiding the paracetamol. The temper tantrums were so out of control I don't know how we got through. She would tantrum at the drop of a hat, making threats to leave, to harm herself, it was a terrible time. I desperately looked for an external factor to blame it on (was she being bullied or anything, was she - god forbid - using substances, was there any online influence). There were no internal factors - everything was stable, we are not over-controlling, not over-demanding of her in any area, we WANT her to have a social life and go out of our way to facilitate it, she had everything she needed and a fair bit of what she wanted. I still cannot explain that last fucking horrible year. And I still won't say we're totally through the woods...
Things I did were - never comment on appearance, never comment on hair (unless nits present of course!), try to put aside time each day to chitchat (a tactic I used was I always seemed to fancy a hot chocolate about 10 minutes after she got in from school), put up with horrible friends (unless safety concerns), talk to her about stuff not connected to her which is bothering you, use opportunities to reinforce to her that me and DH work as a team, don't intervene in school matters (she's always been a uniform rebel and once I'd have argued with her, now I don't - let school tell her that her trousers aren't appropriate).
Nowadays she might 'get the hump' with me but not like she used to (that was scary). She can be reasoned with. If we HAVE to go somewhere/do something that's not her first choice, she will accept it. This morning she actually wished me a nice day when she got out of the car. Yesterday she 'liked' a silly photo of mine on Facebook. However, she is still wearing black drainpipe jeans and monkey boots to school. Let them deal with it - I'm not turning my home into a battlefield over that.
I don't know if we're through the worst. I'd like to think that as her reasoning skills develop, the scale of the rows will ease. But this year is options year, so I expect some fireworks over her GCSE choices.

[Heyho111]

She is completely controlling you. Throwing tantrums, physically abusing you, emotional blackmail and threatening to lie.
I totally understand why you're so worried but her actions are hurting you and her.
You need to do something to get the control back. Tell the school what she's threatened to do if you talked to them. They will see through her. Even tape these conversations. Or video them and play them back to her at a later date when she's in a calm mood.

[JustTenMinutesPeace]

Thank you springlamb. I'm really glad to hear that things are settling down somewhat. You have had a beautiful, caring approach and it seems to be working.

Our home has been changing a lot in last few years though violence started before. It wasn't that bad though, compared to now. Plus she's now the same size as me!

She threatened to run away last night ( and I found the packed bag this morning - a drink, a change of clothes and my teddy from when I was a baby!) but I calmly asked where she planned to go that would offer the maid service she needs to live the life she wants. That stopped her in her tracks.

Feeling a little bit bad though as she's now ill - fever etc - but I didn't believe her last night as she often develops instant sickness when asked to do something. This time she was telling the truth.

[MajesticWhine]

Springlamb - good to hear it sounds like you have come out the other side of this. Gives us all hope.

[VioletandRoger]

Can you find a good book to read on amazon about parenting teens? Look at reviews

Also I'd there any chance she's depressed or feeling like you don't listen to her? In between her rages, are you loving towards her?

[VioletandRoger]

Does she feel like the less favoured child?

Clutching at straws

[JustTenMinutesPeace]

I am affectionate, try to do stuff with her that she likes, have "mummy dates" outside of home, make sure she gets one to one time in home, family days out to places she likes...but often she rather play video games or watch tv. I try to limit those but tbh, it ends in screaming match, even if she agreed earlier in the day she would just watch one show or whatever. She will often create dramas to ruin family plans, like visiting her favourite cousin.

She told my mum I never talk to her unless I'm telling her what she needs to do or what she's done wrong. I don't know if that's her being dramatic or if its how she actually feels. Mum only told me last night and I haven't talked to dd yet as I don't think when she's sick its a good time.

There's so many books I feel overwhelmed. The counsellor has a book for us that we will pick up next meeting. Interestingly, she has given us lots of info relating to children with ADD.

[ViolettaBridgettettette]

Can you ask DD how you could both improve things? Explain that you love her deeply and want you both to have a better relationship with each other. You will be able to improve things a lot by changing the way you are with her

Reading the reviews and looking at ratings might help with choosing a book

[custardismyhamster]

Well if she comes home poorly, how about her favourite tea or something as a 'I know you're poorly so thought this may help' olive branch. (I wouldn't be giving her her stuff back though. Or doing the washing!)

[JustTenMinutesPeace]

Thanks for the replies.
When she's calm she's lovely. We can talk about things that have happened, and what we can do differently in the future. She came up with things like "secret word" which is a random word we are supposed to say if things getting heated, her going on the treadmill, punching pillows etc. All excellent ideas. Except when she gets cross its all out the window. She's like a different child.
I've tried hugging her when I see stress level rising, saying " I'm walking away to let you calm down, but you still need to get washed before bed", and just plain walking off. I should probably be more consistent but tbh, it has to vary based on how like she is to lash out, if her baby sister is in vicinity, if DP is about, and how she has acted up to that point.

Last night was calm. She even got stuff set out for school and got a shower without fuss. I thanked her and took time to sit down to cuddle with her. Long may it continue!

[febel]

I feel for you so much, we have the same problems, although ours started later, around 15 or so...she is 17 now and still can be horrid. Think I have read every parenting book and looked at every internet site which exists..and it's still not sorted properly, she still ERUPTS if we say anything she doesn't like/agree with...like asking her to do something she doesn't want to do. Her elder siblings weren't like this at all...I think it's just her and society today...too much time on line/in front of a screen meaning they don't know how to deal with people and arent responsible...it's all me me me. I am still trying, but it's hard work and to be honest I wish she would go to uni when she is 18..but she won't leave home..altho DH says if she goes on like this he will throw her out.
She sees a counsellor, she hates it, won't got to family counselling and I have no idea what to do anymore...including punishment. As I said to my sister when she suggested grounding her, the only way I could do that is by physically locking her in. I loathe and hate her behaviour, I try not to let it get to me but she made me clinically depressed last year and I was in a really bad place. I wouldn't DREAM of ever talking to my parents the way she does to me, or of treating them as she does.

I'm sorry I can't offer any solutions, the only thing I can think of is your daughter is young so you may have more control (and I mean that in a good way) over her. Check she isn't worrying over anything, as I am sure you have, as sometimes that can make behaviour worse..she is pushing her, and your boundaries for sure and it isn't easy for you.

[springlamb]

How're things today.
We had a little skirmish on Weds which could have gone either way. I decided to leave it at the time and went back to it a few hours later, just asked if we could have a word about what happened earlier. I asked her what she had learned from the particular situation - charge my bloody phone she replied (quite true!). Anyway I ended with some positive reinforcement that I thought she was maturing into a really nice young woman and that the last 6 weeks or so I had thought we were getting on better.
I have agreed to look into paying an allowance into a bank for her (might use one of those GoHenry card accounts), and have got her some colour cards so she can begin to choose new colours for her bedroom which will be decorated in a couple of months once we have seen her make more of an effort with it.
Thought there might be an explosion about no youth club tonight but all is quiet.
Peaceful weekend to you!

[azA99]

Reading all of this makes me realise that last year - which was sheer hell, I felt as though I was trapped in a nightmare - wasn't my fault, or proof (as my daughter said) that we're a really dysfunctional family. It's just something they need to go through, and we need support to cope with.

You all deserve many hugs