What help is out there for difficult dd? Worn out and expecting worse to come

[shagmundfreud]

Have posted about dd before, here: hohum

Things have taken a turn for the worse recently. Not a week's gone by since the start of term when I've not had a phone call or letter (or both) from her school. She's now managed to clock up 24 detentions since the start of year 8. She's sworn and walked out of lessons, been rude and confrontational with her teachers when they've asked her to stop talking in class, truanted during lessons by saying she needs to go to the toilet, but then being found wandering around the school, and got into a fight with a boy and been taken out of lessons for the day

Never mind also the fact that she does more or less no work, at home or at school. She accepts no responsibility for any of it. She has an excuse/rationale for her behaviour in every situation. It's ALWAYS someone else's fault. She's never said sorry and I think she's actually quite proud of being seen as a particular pain in the arse in a school which actually is already full of difficult children (she goes to a pretty tough inner London comp, but one which is well run).

At home in the hours between the end of school and DH coming home at 7 or 8 pm, she's pretty horrible. She uses me as a punch bag, and is verbally abusive and physically threatening. She invades my personal space by walking right up to me and staring in my face if I ask her to do something, or pushes roughly past me, refuses to do what I've asked her to do and threatens to call social services if I eventually end up putting a hand on her to move her (if I've repeatedly asked her to leave the room and she hasn't). She is very critical of my mothering - tells me I'm a rubbish parent and that everyone says so. She challenges my authority all the time, derides me for being a SAHM ('you don't own anything in this house because you didn't pay for it!), is sneering about my part-time work. It's very bruising and distressing, and I sometimes wonder if what I'm feeling is akin to being married to someone who's psychologically abusive.

I try not to get drawn into arguments with her, but she's incredibly manipulative so it's hard. Any request to do something (homework, tidy her room, clean up after herself) she'll try to turn into an argument.

She's very unpleasant to her two younger brothers, one of whom has ASD. (ds2, who's six). She's slapped them around the face when I've not been looking, if they've done or said anything to annoy her. She did this to my 6 year old two nights ago and her nail caught him and gouged his face. He was trembling and sobbing afterwards. She'll barge into my bedroom when I'm putting him to bed at night (he tends to go to sleep in my bed then I move him into his), rifling through my stuff and making noise, just as he's going to sleep. If I ask her to leave she deliberately raises her voice to wake him up. She's done this many times. She frequently gets into futile arguments with him, and talks to him as though he's the same age as her. I've tried to explain to her how children with aspergers often find it impossible to tune into other people's emotions, which partly explains why ds is tactless, volatile and sometimes unbearably irritating and silly. I've encouraged her not to take what he says personally, not to get drawn into silly name-calling in aggressive spats. She ignores me and goes all out sometimes to wind him up, which is horrible for him and for everyone else in the house. When I ask her to try to take into account his disability she accuses me of spoiling him, and says I'm a crap parent because she has friends who have brothers with ASD and their parents handle it much better than I do. She also says that he probably doesn't have ASD because we haven't had a formal diagnosis yet (long story, but I have no doubt he will get a diagnosis - we are waiting for an appointment for him through CAMHS).

Her temper tantrums are getting worse and worse - frightening me and the boys. On monday I refused to let her have a friend around after school because of bad behaviour at school. Her response was to call me a 'bitch' and to throw shoes all over the hallway. She then went up to her room and kicked the door repeatedly until she'd splintered one of the panels.


And I do feel so down on myself as a parent. She has cousins the same age who live near by and none of my SIL's have had behaviour like this from their children. Their kids are really nice - hard-working, considerate, ambitious for themselves. I feel like I'm being judged for dd's nasty behaviour. Not that anyone's said anything unkind, but I feel like such a failure as a parent.

And the thing is - she's only 12. I read some of the posts on this board and think - it's going to get worse isn't it?

She's lost her internet connection, her pocket money, her phone. She's grounded. Where do we go from here? Who is there to help us? We had a referral to CAMHS last year and were given family therapy, which was good, though the last session was awful - dd was rude and uncommunicative and I left feeling really down hearted. She was only referred after I ended up taking her to A&E because she took my thyroxine tablets (only a couple) after I argued with her. We'd already requested a referral through her school and the GP, but it took a crisis to get an appointment.

I really need help with her because her behaviour is tipping me back into a clinical depression (I was depressed a couple of years ago - health anxiety, but I managed to get to grips with things and have been off AD's since last year). It's also making my other two children very unhappy.

Can anyone tell me what services they've used which they've found helpful? And how they accessed them?

Thanks for reading this by the way - I know it's epic!

[LieInsAreRarerThanTigers]

Hi Shagmund, I am not sure I can offer you much help but would like to offer support as I think I posted on your previous thread too - I have similar problems although so far dd has been ok at school (though could work harder not actually being disruptive YET...)

However the rudeness, temper tantrums, abuse of younger brother (not ASD, but dyslexic, a bit anxious and very lacking in confidence about his literacy)aggressive behaviour etc have all happened. I think a lot of it is down to her dad's alcoholism, and general insecurity which includes quite a lot of jealousy over the attention her little brother gets (has always been super-cute and pretty demanding!)

I know other posters before were suggesting ASD for your daughter too - don't know much about it but was she assessed by CAMHS?
Can you ask to go back to CAMHS - I know in adult services people can self-refer back to the CMHT within 6 months of discharge.

Also the hormones, has she started periods yet? I can't believe mine hasn't, she has been so hormonal for the last 3 years...some friends with slightly older dds have said things settle a bit once they are in a regular cycle - like the whole build-up to the first period is like PMS which can go on for years, then after that it is a more 'normal' cycle.

[purplecupcake]

DD was alittle older when she really became out of control, She wasnt in main stream school for years 9 and 10, We did alot of googling and alot of talks with connexions and the school.. we came across Fairbridge, which is now part of The Princes Trust. Her first week there was a residential course for 4 days.. it was like heaven at home that week lol


She felt at home with Fairbridge, and they did alot of group work and also one to one, They do alot of practical things that school dont cover .. water sports, mountain climbing, team building. DD has walked mount snowdon, spent a few days away looking after a virtual baby, a week on a sailing ship. Shes achieved her lvl 1 in football coaching while there.

[daisysue2]

Ask school to get the Emotional and Behavioural issues department into the school to see her as a first port of call. Then ask CAMHS to do an assessment for ASD. Even though they have signed you off if you contact them again and say how bad things are you will be bought back in, or should be. See the head of SEN at school and ask what they are doing. Ask for a referral for her to have counselling through the school.

Make sure school are dealing with her effectively ie if she's not doing homework or leaving class they have a firm method of dealing with her which she understands ie detention, followed by further action if behaviour continues. Talk to school.

Is she doing enough exercise to exhaust her if not get her into a cross country club, or the Cadets, may or may not work. Give yourself a break and completely ignore her outbursts by being tough and remove her from the family when she screams and shouts, ie bedroom or even the garden, she is getting too much of her pleasure and entertainment at the moment from winding her siblings and yourself up.

Check your own thyroid levels are correct as you may need your meds adjusted.

[FamilyAngel]

Hi. I am sorry to hear how difficult things are for you. It does sound like your DD has ASD also and if she has then the usual punishment path has little or no effect. You really need to pick your battles and deal with one behaviour problem at a time. The bad behaviour is often a cover for a child who is finding it very hard to survive and one who is very sensitive to the energy of those around her. It is not unusual for children with ASD to find excuses to leave a class room as they often find the noise and energy of the other children around them very hard. ASD would explain a lot of your DD behaviour.