my ds has started hitting me ,he's 11.Should i involve the police?

[cavolonero]

My ds is just turning 11,not quite a teen but secondary school looms.I have had questions about his behaviour - wondered if he was aspergers - we are finally getting an appt with CAHMS next week - but he has suddenly wanted to pick fights with me.has been quite verbally rude for some weeks but now wants to punch,kick and bite me.We had an awful weekend when i was coming to terms with this and we have just experienced an evening when he has exploded on me. I am covered in bruises,he seems to be getting off on it.He has a taster day at secondary school tomorrow. we are now the same size,I try to stand still and not retaliate but i am forced to leave the house so that it doesnt escalate.I think he has no respect for me - undermined by his dad ,but I 'm worried that this can't go on - should i call the police and where would that lead?

[CQrrrnee]

why are you undermined by his dad?

[GypsyMoth]

when i involved police it was a night in the cells!! dd was 14. youth offending got involved and they were very good

[MegBusset]

No experience with preteens (yet!) but I think violence at any age needs to be come down on like a ton of bricks - whatever is appropriate for that age. How is he normally punished?

[goldtinsel]

I think it would be good to ask for help but involving the police is heavy handed. Well done for trying to defuse things when they are crazy, that is hard to do but essential.
When he is calm, tell him why you love him. Tell him he may not hurt you. Tell him the consequences. Tell him you will always love him. He is maybe scared of the new school? Hope it goes well with CAMHS. Do not understate your problems to them, be pushy in getting help. HUGS.

[Katisha]

WHy not go into the police station and ask for some advice? They should be able to point you in the direction of some support even if they don't take up teh matter themselves.

[Grabaspoon]

Are you married to his dad? Is there a male in the house?

[cavolonero]

His dad refuses to talk to me/co-parent .I think he has told ds i am a witch and like arguing - (when i tell him off or try to reason) and a story about his dad hitting him ( he wore glasses and knocked them off) and he punched him.Ds told me this (i'd heard it 1st hand and was crying.He feels sorry for his dad(recently told him i kicked him out - not the case and was 7 years ago.)

I have worked with kids with behaviour problems at special schools and youth offending teams - am finding it hard to apply this at home.They are people i know but i don't want us to get sucked into a system - we live in a tough central london area.I know there is cross contamination of behavior but I did tell him from age 10 he is responsible.He hid the phone when I said i would call the police.It cant be our little secret as I think this will become a habit and he knows its wrong.
There is also a big difference between 10/11 and 14 - i wouldnt want to commit him to a night in the police cells just yet - I think it would backfire on me.But if they would give me some back up..

[Goblinchild]

if he's on the spectrum, the fact that he is leaving school in a few weeks to launch out into secondary may well be a major stresser for him, and he's lashing out. Fear is a powerful emotion.
You need support from your partner, and don't be afraid to block your son's blows, backed up by clear instructions that what he is doing is not acceptable. Will he go to his room as an alternative to provoking a scrap with you?
When he does lash out, what can you use as a consequence that will mean something to him?
You must make up your own mind, but I wouldn't be calling the police until I'd tried a few things myself.
You could pm Maryz, she has a lot of experience and gives excellent advice and suggestions.

[Katisha]

Well don't threaten to call the police and then do nothing.
You could at least ask their advice, which will show DS you mean business.

[cavolonero]

Youre right empty threats don't work - as i said around here i'm worried the police will go from A-Z too quickly.DS does not seem aware of his behaviour and I am increasingly aware that he doesnt function as I expect- and maybe on an aspergers spectrum - its just more obvious now as real life is kicking in with growing up and taking responsibility for your behaviour.He wants to be a baby.

At the weekend I confided in my neighbour ,Ds is friends with the family.I went around there on saturday night when he had hit me - they called round but ds had hidden in the garden,the second time he was under the bed..
So, no there isnt a male around.
I have been trying to take him to sport - tonight was cricket - but its not making any impact.

His dad is away on another holiday - would a break from me be better than trying to work this out?I've said he can go and live with him - although i don't know if his dad would accomodate this.

I feel a boundary has been crossed tonight - and i let him push me onto the floor and punch me.I don't know how i can parent him now.

[Goblinchild]

I don't know your situation.
I just know that in times of transition,. my DS gets frightened and aggressive. So telling him he could live somewhere else, or that I planned on giving up on him for a while because I couldn't cope would flip him even further into antisocial and difficult behaviour. I'm his normality, his reference point.
Maybe he wants to be a baby because it is safer and less challenging than being a secondary student. No one demands much of you as a littlie.
What has happened to ensure a smooth transition between schools? Is he kicking off at school as well?

[royaljelly]

My DS is also taller than me but thankfully he still has a fear of my wrath. I am occasionally afraid of his teenage angst, but as far as he knows I am 'the law' and what I say goes.

I think maybe you have been a little soft with your son and are now reaping those rewards esp. if he has behavioural troubles.

You should speak to your husband so he can back you up and lend authority when absent but you also have to be more than a 'wet fish'. Remember he is your son. You WILL NOT permit him to hit you or disregard your requests. Do not make apologies for his violence and blame it on Aspergers, ( there are many Aspergers people who do not hit their mothers),

When I was at primary school it was the norm to be taken to the local police station and shut in a cell for 5 mins so we would have a taster of what it was like if we broke the law.

I am guessing your son has been 'mollycoddled' due to his supposed affliction. How would you feel if he was to take his anger out on some-one else?

Maybe a sharp shock would help but I think your DS needs some serious counselling.

It may sound harsh but if my son knocked me to the floor and puched me, his feet wouldn't touch the ground, and I would report him to the police. You should remember that every good child is not afraid of their Mother but is afraid of disapointing their Mother.

[royaljelly]

disappointing

[cavolonero]

you are all saying conflicting things - which is exactly how i'm feeling right now. Of course i would never have imagined that i would tolerate this from anyone living in my house - although his dad was violent towards me which is why we separated when ds was 2.

this has happened on the weekend/eve of him trying a taster day at secondary school.I havent made a big deal of it - we've barely disscussed it as he has heightened anxiety of change - i'm also appealing for another school so don't want him to identify completely with this 1.

he has not been indulged at all -as the child of a single parent he has very much to fit in with me - i have 2 jobs and often to not have the time or energy to give him full attention.
his 'affliction' is something that i am coming to terms with - i have spent his whole life feeling like i'm talking to someone who's in another room and can't quite hear me.It has constantly annoyed me and his teachers - but i can see now that he can't help it and it bugs him too.

However - its not ok to sanction this behaviour i agree - but i've tried the 'I'm the boss ' approach - it doesnt work - i dont know what your situation is royal jelly - i'm a beekeeper by the way.I think reporting him to the police - age 11 could alienate him further - but this has only happened in the last few days - its not a situation i will let become the norm - I'm trying to take control by diffusing it ,not escalating it until its out of our hands.

Communication with his primary school isnt good - i hope if he's in trouble at school they would tell me but year 6 near end of term - not sure.Hope this is a good sign that he can at least control his behaviour - but it doesnt help me or our home situation.

[royaljelly]

Ok comm. with primary has not ben good. (I can only comment from a personal view.) Most Primary schools are too 'handy holdy' if your son does suffer from Asbergers then a sugar free / stimulant free diet should keep him in check as well as a quick word.

I am annoyed by the ADSD / Asbergers messangers that are so quick to diagnose kids when some of them are just 'trained' to be bad. (I live in a village where 90% of school children are said to have ADHD / Asbergers in a class of just 20 if not less. It has become a label for poor parenting and even worse schooling.

I know some of these children and they behave impeccably when in my home but act descructiby when outside. Maybe they know that labels do not give them free rein and I will chastise them as their weak willed mothers will not.............

[Goblinchild]

Well, I disagree with royaljelly's advice, and her opinions on children with a clinical diagnosis of Asperger's or ASDs. She seems to have a very limited understanding of what may cause unacceptable behaviour, and to also have very different ideas of how to deal with it effectively.
My DS is 16 and has just finished his GCSEs. He's handling the concept of transition to colege and A levels very well, unlike his transfer between primary and secondary.
If you do feel that more help from those of us that parent children with ASDs, and who have direct experience of managing aggressive behaviour, come over to the SN boards and talk to the many other MN members who have been in your position and found a way through it.
We do understand that it's not as simple as royaljelly would seem to think it is, that all solutions need to be tailored to an individual and refined over time, and we can at least call the condition by its correct name.

[GypsyMoth]

Restorative justice helped us

Look, if he's pushing you to the ground and bring violent then you need to get police involved!!!

He gets away with it......next time it could be a class mate, teacher or old lady in the street. Why are you just leaving it??

He's your responsibility, deal with him

[cavolonero]

Thanks Goblinchild - i will go over to the SN board to ask other MN parents for advice.

ILovetiffany - i'm not just leaving it - this happened last night and he is on a taster day at his secondary school today - not the right time to deal with this -acting on angry impulses.
I need to have an assessment from CAHMS to see if it is more than just bad behaviour and I am finally getting that next week.

I'm not sure what restorative justice is anyway and why you'd need to use that on your own child.I dont think it would work with DS anyway - he doesnt seem to understand consequences which is why punishing him in the past has been difficult - ie .if i took away favourite toy/tv/computer he woldnt care or link the 2 events - he would just feel angry.

We live in a very violent crime ridden part of london,not a sleepy village - there are people acting violently through mental health probs,drugs etc all around us on a daily basis - stabbings and shootings are not uncommon.A lot of his schoolfriends have siblings - or parents who are in prison.

he has also been watching a lot of violent computer games - it is not my bad parenting - they have access to them at friends houses.

[GypsyMoth]

restorative justice works on many levels,ours concentrated on 'consequences'

so what are you saying? its friends/films/community influences or he has aspergers??

why do you let him continue going to thee houses? are all these other badly behaved children he see's also aspergers?

anyway,i got social services involved with my own off the rails dd. social worker was insistant the whole problem stemmed from her dads abuse towards me too. CAHMS waiting lists are long and they are very,very limited with what they can offer. dont hold your breath with them. further 'cutbacks' seems to be causing them problems even functioning at a basic level.

[GypsyMoth]

could you ask school for extra transition days. my ds is 12,moving to upper in sept and has had 2 extra days

[CQrrrnee]

I really want to take issue with royal jelly's ' 90% of children (having) ADSD / Asbergers' but it's just not appropriate on this thread so I won't. Very glad that the OP has been directed to the SN board.

[CQrrrnee]

OP - youngminds have info on their website about transition from primary to secondary. If you phone them they can do a consultation over the phone with a pychologist. They are very good - have used them.

[bumblingbovine]

I have linked to this website before but it is really useful and does not give the same old behavioural based advice which can be so difficult to implement completely consistently and for some children doesn't work very well anyway.
www.livesinthebalance.org/

I don't know if it will work with your ds but it may improve your relationship with him which has got to be a good thing.

Other than that I second the advice to post on the SN board