Daughter and drug debt- I feel such a fool

[Downnotout]

i posted on here a story about DD and a drug debt.
Well it wasn't her debt. She wasn't on drugs- never has been. It was the boyfriend. He forced her to tell us that so he could get the money for his own debts- he lied to my face and I believed him. He was so credible. I even posted on here how he'd had a tough time but seemed like a really nice lad. Oh how wrong can you be? And what an idiot I feel.
She pawned everything she owned ( or we had given her) to get him money. He even pawned a special gold watch that his father had given him and wanted to get it back because his dad would have thrown him out if he found out about the watch and the drugs. ( he lives in his dads old flat and his dad lives elsewhere )
His dad even phoned me to ask if I knew where the watch was because he suspected something was wrong and I said I didn't know.
The upshot is that DD asked for help to get away from him so I took her to my brother in Spain, which is where she is now. The downside is this boy has continually pestered her. Threatening to stab my son, do us harm, kill himself you name it he's said it.
He's been to our house, texted me. Called DD all the names under the sun, told her he's going out to get another girl, told here he's in hospital, all interspersed with saying he loves her, he needs her, he's changed etc etc.
Her head is so done in that she doesn't know what to think anymore.
I've had to leave her there(she wanted to stay, I didn't make her) because my youngest has to go back to school. Now I'm gone she's wavering because she still loves him, he's saying all the right things and promising to change.
Now, I know and you know, that it's not likely. But he's her first love and she so longs to believe him.
So here I am, sick with fear that she'll go back to him. Knowing if she does, we'll probably have to go through all this again.
I can't force her to do anything. I have to step back and let her make her own choices, no matter how wrong I think she is.
I could have told his dad about the watch. He would be kicked out and have to go back to where he came from in another town, to his mum and family members who think it's ok to do drugs, steal, lie, anything to get by. But I didn't because DD wouldn't have forgiven me. But bloody hell, I feel so angry I wish I had.
It's so hard.

[MedusaIsHavingABadHairDay]

I'm so sorry to read this...read your previous post but had no experience to add.. but I am very glad your daughter isn't the one with the drug problem, and that she is safely away from him for now.

You have done everything you can.. it's not your fault that she, and you were taken in by this man. She is young and he was obviously a very accomplished liar. I really hope she can stay away long enough to make a clean break. I suspect if she can stay away a few weeks, he will get bored and look for a new victim.

stay strong...

[Downnotout]

Thank you.
I know no one can help me.
I just needed to get it all out because I feel like I'm going mad!

[AgentProvocateur]

I can't help, but I can sympathise. I had a brief relationship with a drug user when I was a teenager, and it's only now, with two teens of my own, that I realise how worried my mum must have been.

FWIW, I think you're doing the right thing. It was geographical distance that split us up. I hope it all works out well for you and your daughter.

[AgentProvocateur]

PS, I recently found out that my ex died of a drugs overdose about 10 years ago, when he was in his 30s. Part of me thinks I could have "saved" him, but the other part of me realises I had a lucky escape - I have a lovely DH and a very happy life.

[Downnotout]

That's the problem Agentp. She thinks she can save him and he keeps telling her he'll kill himself if she doesn't come home. She's shown me all the messages so I do know it's true.
Emotional blackmail isn't it.

[Jaspants]

Massive sympathies - what a horrible situation.

I am very selfish so bear that in mind when I say IIWY I would tell his Dad about the watch if it means that he will kick him out and the boy will be out of your town and therefore no longer a harmful influence on your DD.

Not sure if that is helpful or not as your DD may hate you for it.

[Downnotout]

Ohh jaspants... Believe me I am so tempted. I could report him to the council too because he shouldn't be there.
BUT.... I know it sounds stupid.... I just feel that by being sneaky I am sinking to his level and she has to make her own mistakes and learn from them. It just does my head in!

[ChippingInLovesEasterEggs]

Bastard.

How old is she?

I couldn't blame her if she believed him and gave him another chance - first love is so strong and so trusting isn't it... I don't know what I'd say to her if she was mine :( Probably something along the lines of 'I know you believe him, he may even believe it himself, but I think you are old enough and sensible enough to understand that an addict has to want to do it for themselves and do it by themselves, for it to work. If he really loves you, he will get clean and then get back together with you (if you'll have him) - if he is blackmailing you now, he's not ready to give the drugs up. He is threatening you and our family - is this the type of guy you want to be with?'

... and hope to hell she sees sense.

[Downnotout]

Chipping in... I have said very much along those lines.
But you're right...young love....we all know how that feels!

[Downnotout]

She is nearly 18.

[Downnotout]

Thanks for the messages and support.
She has decided to come back today because she wants to give him another chance- he has changed apparently!!
However she says she will come and live at home instead of going back to live with him.

I am going to pick up the laptop from cash converters today but I will not be giving it back to her. I have also said that one sign of lying or any sneaky dealings and I will tell his dad everything- whether she likes it or not.

[ChippingIn]

Down - sorry I missed your reply. This 'Threads I'm on' is just not working for me - grrr.

'He's changed' - of course he has

At least she's going to live at home - that's good.

Good on you for telling her that you'll tell his Dad if you catch them lying to you.

Fingers crossed.

18... a very difficult age :(

[Downnotout]

Just to update. She has come back and is spending some nights at his and some nights at home.

I feel unable to put my foot down about that as she will just flounce out and move back in.

His mother phoned me in a strop about me "blackmailing" them over the watch. However, once I explained about the lies, pawning stuff, drugs etc. She told me the truth about why he was here in the first place. He destroyed their family with his lying and bad behaviour. She came home one day to find her tv etc gone. He told her they'd been burgled but it was him, getting money for debts/drugs etc so she brought him here for his father to deal with.

Since then his dad has moved out and left him to fend for himself.
His mother obviously doesn't want me to tell about the watch because she doesn't want him homeless but doesn't want him back either.

I think they thought his mum having a go at me would work in their favour, but it really backfired on them.
I did find out that he had told DD that his mum had promised to take them on holiday- (one of the reasons she was so keen to give him another chance) but his mum said this was also a lie. I passed this information on to DD casually saying " by the way, she doesn't known anything about taking you on holiday" cue stunned silence, then excuses by boy saying
"she says she didn't, but she did......". Anyway ,no harm in planting seeds of doubt.

I am making concerted effort now to step back and pick my battles. If he can lie to me, his mum, dad and DD, I can only hope she eventually sees sense. His own mum told me he's bad news and DD can do much better and will leave him eventually. I only hope that happens before she really ruins her own life.

[Selks]

It's going to be a tough lesson for her, and I feel for her as it will hurt, but she will learn, leave him, and move on. You're very wise to choose your battles carefully - one type of controlling, manipulative behavior can sometimes be when a wedge is driven between the involved person and thier family by the abuser. Don't be surprised if he attempts this, so do all you can to maintain good relations with your daugher.
My best wishes to you and your daughter, and I hope she comes out of this as well as possible.

[AuntieMonica]

Hi there

I haven't read your 1st thread about the b/f, but have DS with past drug issues.

You realise you are colluding with HIM by not telling his father the truth re; the watch? You should tell him now, not use it as a threat over your daughter. AFAICS she is an innocent in this, she wants to see the best in him, what she wants him to be, but whilst he's using this will never happen.

You cannot make your DD see what she doesn't want to see, but while you are protecting him from being homeless, she sees you as not only HER ally, but his too. And if you DO hear any more about the stories he's telling to keep people onside, tell your DD what you know, directly.

I know how hurtful and degrading it is to be lied to, to see someones personal belongings disappear with no replacements.....but it's time for you to be tough.

Sorry if this seems harsh, but IME, it's the only way to get through it, don't get dragged into the web of lies and deception, you need to be seeing and acting in strict black/white - no grey areas. Wherever there are drug issues, the user will twist and turn it to their advantage.
Every time.

And to add. I'm so sorry you are going through this have this [hug]

It's bloody tough being a parent, but you aren't alone in it.

[Downnotout]

Selks and auntiemonica, yes I have already noticed him trying to drive a wedge between us. This really does worry me.
When she phones me I can hear him in the background feeding her lines. He told her we were manipulating her and messing with her head. She was coming home on Saturday night but after the thing about the holiday he had a row with his mum on the phone for telling us and DD said she couldn't leave him alone then because he became so "agitated"- her words.
He hates her being here because he's scared I'll poison her against him.
She says everyone else is lying about him and the things he has done.
He is very clever and extremely articulate. Words come out of her mouth that she would never have come up with herself. He is like a puppeteer!
I know I should have told his dad straight away- when DD and he fell out. It's the lying that his dad will not put up with. But now she's back seeing him I feel the moment has passed as she will never forgive me.
It's such a tricky line to walk. I don't sleep anymore.

[Downnotout]

To see the background on how all this started my original post was

Daughter owes money to drug dealer

Sorry don't know how to post as a link.

[AuntieMonica]

I have PM'd you, OP

[Downnotout]

Oh goodness AuntieM. That has really scared me! Not just because it confirms what I have said to her about not being able to save him but because I can see certain themes in there that relate to DD too. Not that I believe she is also an addict, but that she could so easily slip into it. She is damaged emotionally (even longer story, but bullied, dyslexic, low self esteem etc..) and the things we have done to "encourage" her along, now I wonder if we did them for her good or ours?

And most of all- his mother has done the very thing that the writer says will help- except he has now found DD to enable him, and is dragging her down with him.
I am allowing that to happen- but it looks like I may have to lose her and hope that one day she understands.

Thank you for the insight.

[gingeroots]

Downnotout - so sorry you're having to deal with this .
I've just quickly skimmed through last few posts and see that you've gone from
DD coming back and living at home
DD spending some nights at his and some at home
DD planning to come home but unable to leave him
in a really short timescale .
Not as if you don't realise it yourself ,I'm sure ,but I guess if there's anything you can do - tell about the watch ? - which might halt the situation ,perhaps you should ???
So sorry - can't imagine what I would do in this situation .

[Downnotout]

Thanks maryz for the point about the implant. That would certainly be a good idea if I can think of broaching the subject without putting the idea of getting pregnant into her head.
I am having no contact with him at all. He has gone from texting me long drawn out apologies (excuses) to which I did not respond, to saying he doesn't want anything to do with us, to calling himself "scummy" and saying he gets the picture why we don't want him with our daughter.
I get the impression this is so he can say to DD that we won't give him a chance. Too right I won't.I certainly won't let him in the house.
And yes, it is cannabis. He displays all the classic symptoms of paranoia, mood swings, aggression, defensive, agitation etc etc.
DD has only been seeing him 2 months. Before that I am 100% sure she was not doing drugs. Now with all the lies and secrecy I wouldn't like to hazard a guess.

I should add at this point that I do know that she isn't blameless for the things she has done or has been party to. Whatever the reason, she has gone along with all the lies and has lied herself. I can't blame him for everything- tempting as it is.

[AuntieMonica]

Downnotout, it's meant to scare, to give us parents the information we need to help our kids to the best means.

For anyone else reading this, I PM'd the OP a link to an open letter, written by an addict, to his/her parents. An ex user sent it to me when DS first revealed his substance use to me.

I think maryz gives some excellent advice re; not giving your DD anything whilst she is with this man.

They've told you about the cannabis, but to have such a rapid change happen, sorry to say, I think there may be more revelations to come.

The young man's behaviour sounds a lot like my DS's - he's never so much as smoked a cigarette - but shovelled £thousands up his nose in coke

I hope I'm wrong for your situation.