Bunny experts needed!

[TimeIhadaNameChange]

I have a major dilemma. I posted about Bella last week. She'd been limping the Thursday before, but the emergency vet on the Sunday could find nothing wrong with her. Took them all to my usual vet on Saturday and mentioned that she'd been really quiet ever since, not running away when I went to pick her up, and not coming out when I put food in. I'd been trying to feed her Critical Care but she'd only manage a ml before clumping her jaw shut (as it were) and refusing to take any more. She did nibble a bit of kale in front of me one day, and a bit of hay another, and the fact that she got a wee bit better (ie trying to jump out of my arms) towards the end of the week suggested that she wasn't going totally without. She just seemed to lose all enthusiasm for life. I did wonder if she was grieving her daughter who she'd last seen on the Sunday.

The vet said that she was fine, other than a lack of muscle on her hind legs, but to keep and eye on her weight and see what happens. She really seems to be skin and bones, now, though.

Now to my dilemma:

The buns are all in a shed. They currently have two heaters in there (one turns it into a sauna, they love it!) which I think Bella needs. For the last few days they've been shut up in there to keep the heat in, but it's not fair on the "babies", who are well-muscled and well-padded, to be shut in all the time. However, if I open the door the temp will plummet, plus I don't trust Bella not to go out and then lie on the ice (I found her in the mud one evening last week).

So, I'm thinking about bringing her in to the house, but she would have to be on her own. It wouldn't be fair to cage one of the youngsters, and they couldn't have the run of the house (it wouldn't be fair on DP, or the house). Do you think she will be ok on her own? I don't think rebonding will be a problem - both Dad (now deceased) and one of the others were separate from months, and they just went back together no prob (Dad burrowed his way back in, so I didn't get a chance to rebond them!).

If she's in by herself I can monitor what she eats, drinks and poos. She will be warmer, and have humans, guineas and the cat for company. But will the rabbit isolation be a major stress?

[whatithink]

Hi
We have bunnies and have often had questions about them and needed help. Not sure how much 'expert' help you will get on mumsnet. If you have not already done so there are several rabbit forums if you google them and a facebook site called rabbits united. We have had help from both of these places in the past.

[whatithink]

In my unexpert opinion, she is better off staying with her bonded mates, although agreed it is then difficult to monitor how much she is eating and drinking.
If you bring her inside now for any length of time she may loose her winder coat and you won't be able to put her back outside until Spring when it is warmer. I have often read it is the warmth that is worse for bunnies, not the cold.

[bunnygeek]

Has the vet done a blood test or an x-ray to see if there's anything going on there? If she's underweight she's going to struggle in these very cold temperatures. To be honest I would personally bring her in and get her health sorted out, if she's unwell she's more likely to be bullied and have all her food nicked by the healthier rabbits anyway.

Bring her in, get her set up somewhere cosy and get her health investigated.

[TimeIhadaNameChange]

Thanks both.

No, bunnygeek she's not had either done, though he mentioned them as an option if she loses more weight. I'm tempted to ring and ask for them anyway (though I'm worried about the GA, having lost a rabbit previously) but these things have to be done.

I think I'll go with your arguments (sorry, whatithink, no offence meant) as I'm not sure she has much of a winter coat anyway. Plus I'm away next week and DP won't want to have to pick her up if she's lying down in the run. I'll leave the others to it and they can go back outside in their run tomorrow. There's absolutely nothing wrong with the three of them!

Thanks, again, to both of you. I appreciate it.

[ClashCityRocker]

I'd bring her in so you can monitor her. As you probably know, rabbits can go from a little bit off to very very sick extremely quickly.

How's she pooping/peeing?

When we had to give my boy meds, mashing them up in banana was the only surefire way of getting them in.

[TimeIhadaNameChange]

Well she's in. She had a little green stuff overnight but not as much as I'd expect, and I'm not convinced she touched her dry food. She might have had some hay.

Have left her with cucumber, banana and cauliflower so am hoping something will encourage her to eat. I'll be ringing the vet to get her booked in for a thorough, sedated check-up. Something's not right.

[TimeIhadaNameChange]

She's eaten very little since Monday so she's now at the vets for xrays, blood-tests and whatever else they can throw at her. Paws crossed, please.

[bunnygeek]

All our paws are crossed! Fingers crossed they can find out what's going on.

[ClashCityRocker]

Paws crossed here! Let us know how she gets on.

[TimeIhadaNameChange]

Thank you!

She'd lost 200g (about 1/8 of the bodyweight) since Saturday, so in four days. The xrays were clear (no spinal damage) so we're now waiting for the blood results to return. She did have food in her stomach (could see it on the xray) so she is eating, just not very much.

I'm now treating her like a guinea pig and offering a wider range of food each day than she's used to, in the hope that something will tickle her fancy. I'm really not bothered what she eats. She ate some digestive biscuit overnight, and some banana, so she got more of both this morning, with some more cucmber (think she'd eaten that too, but she may just have been laying on it) and some spring greens. The guineas are not happy that their food is going elsewhere!

It's sad that I'm happy if she manages to move a little: this morning she was lying with her head in the tent, and I was overjoyed that, over the course of an hour or so she'd gone into the tent, turned around and half come out again. That's not normal. I left the door of the cage open for a few minutes knowing there was no way she'd come out. It's so sad.

[bunnygeek]

Poor girl! Were they going to test for the EC parasite also? That can have a huge range of symptoms that can seem similar to other issues.

There's definitely no molar tooth issues? Roots or spurs, I assume they checked that in the x-ray too!

Have you offered herbs as well? Those can help tempt them into eating - mine love parsley, mint and basil. And Fenugreek is an appetite stimulant - mine love Rosewood Fenugreek Crunchies.

[TimeIhadaNameChange]

Don't know about EC - will ask when the vet rings me later today.

Another one is off colour - she refused to go into her shed Thursday night and let me pick her up (VERY unlike her) and was still out last night. She did go in but I picked her up to dry her and she didn't really resist. She has been eating though, and I found her on top of her nesting box yesterday morning so it could just be she's missing mum. I suspect mum will be going up tomorrow anyway, once we know what we're dealing with so I'll take her (and the other two) with me then. Although I half feel I should take her today until we know what we're dealing with the vet's not going to really be able to do anything anyway.

I did offer all of them some parsley the other day. I think it was eaten (though the guineas weren't impressed with theirs - they're obviously broken!!!) but, to be honest, this last fortnight is becoming a blur where the rabbits are concerned.

Mum did have tooth spurs which were dealt with, but the vet didn't think they were significant, as there were no sore patches on the tongue. But they are gone now, so if it was that she should be finding it easier to eat now.

Didn't know that about Fenugreek. Have found a recipe for biscuits online [[http://www.therabbithouse.com/blog/2011/11/16/homemade-rabbit-treats/ here] so will try making some tonight. Am not too hopeful, though, as I made them a warm potage of Weetabix, oats, oat milk, raisins and hot water the other day and it got totally ignored, other than as something to run through and leave paw marks in!!! Mum is eating digestive biscuits, though, so she might nibble the treats. (I know digestive biscuits aren't the best but at this moment in time I'm not bothered.)

[Cheeseislife]

Are your rabbits vaccinated against RVHD2?

[TimeIhadaNameChange]

Not yet, Cheese but they will be in the new year. I kept putting off their vaccs for various reasons and really wish now I hadn't, but the general consensus is that it's not one of the viruses, but the guilt was too much to put off their jabs any longer.

The third bun mentioned above is also very ill. Same paralysis in the hindquarters as we've seen in the other two. Reading more about it I'm pretty sure it is EC and, as the lab still has Bella's blood sample they'll be testing for that asap. I'm kicking myself for not asking for it sooner but I was convinced head-tilt was a certain with EC, and, until we had the earlier blood results back it didn't seem entirely sensible telling the vet what to test for. It hasn't helped that I had noro last weekend so thinking hasn't really been happening for the last wee while (and why I haven't been back to this thread sooner).

So, at the moment I have two very healthy rabbits (who keep throwing me the evils as they've been on far too many car journeys and on shed arrest far too much lately) and two very poorly buns who, despite everything, are still fighting. When I get the EC results I'll let you know but I'm hoping, bizarrely, that it is EC as at least we'd then know what we're dealing with.

[TimeIhadaNameChange]

Oh, and Cheese I've just bee rereading the symptoms of VHD2 and none of that came up on the PM of the first victim so I think that's out the question (please don't make me feel guilty again...).