🐌 Fantastic Skincare: Bear Shaped Pseudo Face Vibrators, Don't Ask us What They're For(eo) 🐻

[botemp]

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For those who are taking a peek and wondering what this all about, we mostly discuss a bit of advanced skincare here with a perspective of seeking out the right ingredients (rather than the latest new shiny product and all its empty promises) for our particular skin needs. Distinguishing the acid toners from the actives whilst avoiding the truly unimpressive and harmful ingredients with a hope to achieve a bit of anti-ageing, alleviate irritation and sensitivities with some idle chat in between. Newcomers are always welcome but please note the following:

Questions and asking for help on this thread is encouraged, however, we can’t give you a specific routine to follow and hope it works out for the best. There are no overnight miracles in skincare whether it be in the form of products or techniques. It’s about perseverance, understanding your skin, assessing its needs and responding to that in a diligent manner.

These threads were created to help those who want to learn for themselves. We’re a group of interested and invested skincare nuts happy to offer tea and sympathy and dole out advice. Everyone’s journey with skincare is different, what is universal and binds us is that through actually learning about the different active ingredients it helps us get to know our skin and help us adapt as it will change many times throughout our lives - with seasons, hormonal changes, ageing, genetics etc. It's in everyone's best interests to get to know their skin and to keep reviewing those changes with the confidence that comes from the gathered knowledge here. We really encourage you to spend the time reading through previous threads and linked info sheets that the many contributors have taken the trouble to share.

By no means are we experts, we're only a bunch of amateurs that can only respond by suggesting what we would do in your place, for any severe conditions please seek out professional help.

Ahem, and finally a little note on spending. I'm well aware these threads cause many to reach for their wallets and spend with wild abandon. There can sometimes be a bit of a frenzy surrounding the excitement around a newly discovered product or on the back of great improvements when someone reports back. This is all great, it doesn't however, mean everything that's a sudden miracle for one will be it for you. Usually, it's a light bulb moment for connecting the right skincare ingredient with an individual experiencing a specific problem. Take your time to mull over decisions and question whether it's right for you too. Skincare is highly individual, it's a slow game that should cost mostly in patience, input, education, and perseverance. Please don't make it cost you financially needlessly.

I am very slowly working on consolidating the gathered information from previous threads into easier to read formats but it’s slow going. I would suggest reading thread 1 and at the very least the following info sheets (provided they apply to you):

Where to Start

Basics of an Actives Routine

Skin Types vs. Skin Conditions Info Sheet

Anti-Ageing Info sheet

Adult Acne Info Sheet

Understanding Which Sunscreen(s) to Buy

Do I Really Need to Wear Sunscreen Every Single Day of the Year?

A Damaged Skin Barrier - Now What?

NEW SERIES:

So You Want To Buy A Retinoid - A Guide

[NinnyNewName]

Brilliant thread title. Thank you Bo.

[QuiteGood]

I have recently splashed out on a foreo bear but I am far from a skin expert and don’t really know what I am doing with it, other than the basics. Could anyone give me some pointers or links to more detailed videos. I was hoping to make an impact on hooded eyes and lip lines. I also use retinol via dermetica.

[botemp]

I find these two useful, Duvet had some other ones but I didn't save those.

[SallieSallow]

Thanks for the new thread Bo and also those videos, I’ve saved them so I can watch when I finally get round to using mine!

[QuiteGood]

That’s brilliant. Thank so much for the response!

[QueenPaw]

Bit of a chin breakout going on here, probably hormonal
I'm trying the skincare product test on here which is stuff I hadn't heard of but seems nice so far
Spotted this SPF which looks interesting
https://www.lookfantastic.com/la-roche-posay-hyalu-b5-uv-serum-spf-30-50ml/12867791.html?affil=thggpsad&switchcurrency=GBP&shippingcountry=GB&thgppccampaign=71700000073533399&adtype=pla&productid=12867791&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIrKmukcSW8AIVSOh3Ch3KPA0cEAUYASABEgKa2vDBwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

[banivani]

Had to pop on and tell you about a skincare programme on Swedish telly, Sanningen om hudvård. Sadly there's that little problem of language but it is available on SVT play for anyone to watch. I noticed briefly that they got some criticism from influencers etc about not being public service neutral and that the tests aren’t scientific enough.

There's a group consisting of two dermatologists (one MD, one researcher), a chemist (doctor of), someone I forget I think and the head of the Swedish Medical Products Agency. They have a small test group on tv, and a larger test group "at a lab" doing the same test. The testers (who are a mix of well known names/celebrities/influencers and unknowns/not known by me:s) apply the tested product on half the face and and a moisturising product all over the face. All products are decanted into neutral bottles. After four weeks the pros look at the skin and see if there's a difference. In between the pros do a bit of chatting about the science of skin, marketing claims, legality, the difference between medication and cosmetics etc.

First episode tested anti-aging products including retinol products, and controversially concluded that the expensive products did basically nothing that moisturisers couldn't do. The moisturiser that was the all over face product was apparently Nivea from the blue tin, and this is where I raised an eyebrow because no way that product with that distinctive smell wasn't sussed out by at least some of the testers?

Next episode was acne (lots of stressing that cosmetic acne and medical acne are two different things and the products tested only help medical acne etc) and the results showed that niacinamide works and aha acids work.

Last episode is on Thursday and called "glow" and will feature Sweden's biggest skincare influencer. I’m very invested.

[botemp]

That LRP sunscreen has fragrance and is only SPF 30, not sure about it.

There was a similar program here in NL a while back, Bani, not as expansive but it basically revealed that Vaseline was the best moisturiser. Granted they were only testing for TEWL and obviously Vaseline would come out on top with that (think Nivea is not that far off Vaseline in formulation IIRC), they did note that it didn't necessarily make the skin look the best comparatively and that a lot of skincare is more cosmetic than performing.

I must admit I have wondered about Retinol a lot, because it's not an easy or nice thing to use so if you're just chucking it in for the anti aging label to a large audience of regular shoppers who don't do lots of skincare research you're unlikely to put much in otherwise you'll be overwhelmed with complaints about ruined skin and no repurchases. Do you know which expensive brands they were testing, is it like Estée Lauder type high end or cosmeceutical brands like Medik8 and Skinceuticals?

[banivani]

The criticism of the retinol test is fair, they only tested 4 weeks or 8 weeks (can't remember, am aware that is a massive difference) and people are saying that this isn't enough to monitor results. Some of the testers reported stinging or flaking and there was no discussion really about that -- they were told to use it less frequently but it would have been good with a discussion about the established wisdom of introducing products slowly and a discussion could then also be had about how we then might use a whole bottle and buy one more while hoping for results. After all they started out using it morning and night no wonder there was stinging. I did lie a little above, they did see results of the retinol but the perception in the programme was that it just wasn't dramatic enough to motivate the costs IIRC.

They tested

Emma S, Ageless serum
Verso, Super facial serum
Pixi, Retinol tonic
Skincity, Skincare first concentrate
Paula's choice, Clinical 1% retinol treatment

Then they tested special anti age creams with peptides etc and that's when the results were more definitely in the camp of "if you give skin moisture and grease it's going to feel and look better, nvm which kind".

I can't remember what they tested in the anti-age and can't find a list online, something from Lancôme and Clarins double serum but there was something else. And the cheap cream was from Lidl.

[botemp]

Well that's a very confusing choice of products, not all are to be used during the day and the PC would be very irritating without introduction. I completely understand the criticism. I'm sure they probably made good points though, definitely agree that when it comes to moisturising.

Frezyderm has a new (to me) sunscreen that's cream or lotion (two types) to powder. I'm somewhat intrigued but maybe it's too matte for my tastes 😬

[Tsmummy08]

Hi all! Is anyone else rethinking their tret use over summer?

I seem to have caught the sun at the weekend (don't spank me Bo!) in spite of wearing physical SPF 50 (Neostrata), topped up with LRP spray, big sunglasses, and a wide-brimmed hat which I managed to keep on most of the time even with the wind.

Clearly, sun exposure isn't great when you're using tret but I thought I'd covered all my bases (literally and figuratively)...... I'm now wondering if I should suspend my Skin&Me subscription over the summer and switch to P&M Retinoil (which I've tolerated ok in the summer before).

Anyone else feeling a bit pink today?!

[botemp]

Spank you mention a pseudo vibrator in the title and next thing you know it's a BDSM basement...

I must admit that I've never really noticed extra sun sensitivity with Tret in summer but I'm not that sun sensitive to begin with so I think that may have something to do with it. How sun sensitive were you before using any sun sensitising actives?

[popularinthe80s]

Love the new title, @botemp!
You have incredible memory. Yes, I'm the one who had hyperpigmentation probleAms. Now seem to be settling down. I'm on this from Dermatica:
Tretinoin 0.1% / Niacinamide 4% Lotion

I know there are many sunscreens you can recommend but at last I've found one that doesn't sting, looks fine and doesn't break the bank. Really hope LRP Anthelios Shaka whatsit fits the bill. So many others hurt.

Also, god, I'm a bit worn out with it. Does anyone else feel like that sometimes? I know it's hugely important to get the right spf and I would regret it later. But looking for a decent one seems to have become my second job. :-)

[botemp]

What was the physical sunscreen that you found that's now nowhere to be found (my memory is not that good )?

In theory the LRP Shaka fluid is not a bad choice but two things, I was under the impression it was being discontinued to be replaced by 'something something invisible fluid'. And also (why it's potentially good but maybe also not) at launch it claimed a really high PPD rating (UVA rating which are essential for pigmentation issues so in theory great) that was unprecedented for the Anthelios line but it was nowhere to be found on the packaging or any sort of test results available online so it was all a bit iffy but as a baseline it has the UVA in a circle so it has at least ppd16 but probably higher but maybe not as high as ppd46 that they claimed.

On the whole, physical sunscreens are considered the better choice as they always have the necessary UVA coverage but they also cover a wide range of UVA rays, it gets technical here but there's only two physical sunscreen filters and a lot of chemical ones. Some chemical filters will cover the UVA range of wavelengths but not necessarily as wide a range as physical or as optimally, so you have to look it all up and gets a bit complicated unless the company has useful charts displaying wave length coverage. I think the LRP should be fine in theory but I can't say for certain the way I can with a physical sunscreen, so the standard response from Derms WRT pigmentation issues stands, that physical sunscreen is your best bet (but the LRP will probably be okay, but probably best to wear a upf hat, jic).

I've attached a diagram demonstrating it with the most common filters in the US, which demonstrates why physical is the best choice there but the European and Asian approved newer ones can outperform zinc but you really need to know exactly what to look for (I've never attempted it but essentially anything chemical marketed as anti ageing or pigmentation prevention is usually a good bet, often these are mixed physical/chemical and you hopefully get the best of both worlds).

[botemp]

Here is some more info on UVA filters from Labmuffin with some good info of how it compares to zinc oxide.

And here's a cheat sheet for the newer generation EU/JP filters, with helpful diagrams. Cheat sheet.

[popularinthe80s]

@botemp, thank you for this. It's depressing (as I have just got the LRP Shaka for 13 pounds from Boots) but helpful.
My mineral spf history - it's a torrid one:
Heliocare - hurt my face.
Ultrasun - ditto.
Colorscience www.facethefuture.co.uk/products/colorescience-sunforgettable-total-protection-face-shield-spf-50
This is the one I'm in love with (I'm sure you recommended it to me) - unfortunately so is everyone else, and it's out of stock.
Someone recommended Neostrata - I have some of that to try. But it's 30 quid a pop.
I'd really like something kind to sensitive skin and under 20 quid.
Alternatlively, I'm thinking, balaclava....

[botemp]

Ah, I see, I'm sure it'll come back in stock, maybe they're just revamping the packaging or it's Brexit related, their own site is oos too, it doesn't look like it's just disappeared and it's still available to buy in the US.

The Avène mineral is not perfect (white cast and the tinted is an odd tint that transfers onto clothes) but it's a decent budget one for sensitive skin. I think Uriage or SVR also has a decent one trying to remember which one now, think SVR. Although completely understand if you're not up for experimenting after previous experiences.

[botemp]

It's the Avène fluid mineral fiy (not the cream that's all sorts of thick misery).

[popularinthe80s]

@botemp, thanks for the advice. I will grit my teeth and hold on, but good to know about the Avene.

[SallieSallow]

I have good news - Timeless Vit c has arrived

I’m also starting to use my bear 🐻 I’m planning to use in the morning (WFH so plenty of time) with Vichy 89. Can I use the Vit c on top of the Vichy or will that reduce it’s potency/effects? If I’m going to have to wash my face again before applying Vit c I’ll just get some cheap conductive gel rather than ‘wasting’ the Vichy.

[botemp]

So long as the Timeless has no oils in it you can layer it underneath the Vichy 89, there's some claims it will get the serum working better. I think Timeless is oil free but check JIC.

[SallieSallow]

Oh good news thanks Bo and yes as far as I can gather from looking at the ingredients list on the box Timeless is oil free but will check the INCI decoder etc just in case.

[BabyPigeon]

Hi all,

I found this new (I think) sunscreen that is for face and body, could be a good all rounder I guess and with no fragrance. I will try it because escentual is running a 1/3 on the french pharmacy brand this month.
www.escentual.com/avene/avene0159/

I am also trying the unseen suncreen from supergoop (only a travel size), but because it's like a primer I have no idea if I'm applying enough. It does feel ok but it's spf 30...

I also found another mineral suncreen on SpaceNk, from Ultraviolette it is not very cheap unfortunately but it looks promising so far (it's very very mattifying).
www.spacenk.com/uk/sun-tan/suncare/face-suncream/lean-screen-mineral-mattifying-spf-50-MUK200029722.html
They have others in the range, one is mineral + chemical filters, but I have not tried that as I wanted spf 50.
Basically I am still looking for a comfortable and nice to use spf 50 suncreen.
Has anyone tried any of the above or some other new ones? I would like some new sunscreen suggestions as I keep going back to the Paula's Choice mineral ones, but they don't make a 50....

[ilovemydogandMrObama]

Thank you babypigeon - I like the Avene, and only will buy it on offer, so thanks for the heads up (I may have affected the in stock list . The issue I have to watch with Avene is that sometimes their products do contain fragrance, like the Aqua Gel.

[BabyPigeon]

I'm happy Avene decided to make fragrance free sunscreen, I know their sunscreen scent, I don't mind it on the body but I rather not have it close to my nose or even worse, on my eyelids.