OK. Define 'mutton'.

[AFierceBadRabbit]

Because I just don't get it, unless we're talking a 60 yr old wearing a mini bodycon dress with low neckline?
'Booty' shorts on the over 50's?

If you have the figure who really cares?

Isn't it just another way of looking down on someone - similar to having so-called 'chavvy' tastes?

Or is it a deeply ingrained fear of shocking someone from the front after tempting them from behind?

I think it is a derogatory term that I can't imagine ever using against myself. Why do women even engage in this?

[Lweji]

Jealousy.

[AFierceBadRabbit]

What about anna dello russo?

Apart from really exaggerated stereotypes I can't even picture when I ever saw an older woman looking like 'mutton'.

[phoolani]

Do they engage in it much anymore? I haven't heard it said by anyone since my grandma died 20 years ago. I'm not saying we don't still judge older women for their clothes, but I think what's considered 'acceptable' has expanded a great deal .

[Aderyn2016]

In theory I agree that people should wear what they like, so long as it is occasion appropriate.
That said, there is something a bit sad about people trying to recapture a lost youth by dressing like a kid. Thinking of midlife crisis men etc. There is nothing wrong with ageing and perhaps the question should be why society only values youth.

[Floisme]

I think it's a really offensive term about all women, whether young, middle aged or old. It has its roots in the butchery trade and it's basically a reference to a woman's market value.

I hate seeing it on here and I don't understand why we talk about ourselves like that.

[MollyHuaCha]

Oxford English Dictionary definition. Why is it only for women though?

[DrScholl]

when you choose clothes for comfort ALONE

Eg the mums dressing for a sahara trek with crag hoppers back packs and walking boots to take a toddler to the science museum

Anyone in baggy linen trousers and bireknstocks
White stuff

[DrScholl]

hhah
I am a wally
I defined MUMSY

turns off rantlock

I need wine

[AFierceBadRabbit]

Haha, mumsy is another!

Floisme I fully agree. Been reading MN for years and hear it all the time here, depressingly, but thankfully never in real life.

[AFierceBadRabbit]

I wonder if it comes from a time in history when there were more marked differences and sartorial signifiers surrounding female clothing? I know that such 'rules' applied to hair.

Doesn't make it any less offensive though.

[AuntieStella]

Ageism is now against the law.

The phrase unfortunately won't die out because of that.

But the idea that age is an important factor is (fortunately) routinely challenged on MN.

You can look dreadful and unstylish whatever your age.

[Floisme]

I think it dates from the time when an older woman without a husband was pretty much done for economically speaking so her only hope was to try and pass herself off as younger.

[RebelandaStunner]

Meat that my dogs like to eat.
It's 2017 btw.

[Floisme]

I don't think it's just ageism - and I've been told off on here for 'having issues' about that. I think it's pretty vile to talk about any woman as if she's a piece of meat.

[Judydreamsofhorses]

I absolutely hate this term. I think it has connotations of a woman looking "tarty" which is horrible, and ties in with the meat reference mentioned above.

I think everyone has different ideas on what they fancy wearing at whatever age, and their own style. I'm early 40s and love pinafores and dungarees - I'm probably what a pp described as dressing like a kid - but there are certain styles I would never wear, for example ripped jeans, cold shoulder things amongst others.

I am equally not down with "mumsy", tbh.

[Eliza22]

Good grief, so disparaging. There's no male equivalent. I hate "all fur coat and no knickers" as well.

[taybert]

But DrScholl, what would you call someone in one of those outfits if they also had blue eyshadow on and their hair in pigtails? Hmm? Also, leave Birkenstocks alone, it's not even summer and my footwear is being abused.

I'm in the "who cares?" camp. There are some amazingly stylish women in their 60s (or 70s or 80s) who pull off stuff that I can't in my 30s. There are terribly dressed 20 year olds. We have to try harder not to ask those questions about ourselves though- the question should be "do you think this looks good?" If you want an opinion, not "do I look like mutton in this?"

Disclaimer: Birkenstock wearer.

[furlinedsheepskinjacket]

isnt it showing too much old flesh??

[OCSockOrphanage]

I wonder if the contemporary concept of mutton is "trying too hard" to look now. I don't think I do, but occasionally trends occur that suit me and that I wear that are definitely not routinely adopted by women aged 60 in Devon and Cornwall.

[OCSockOrphanage]

Too much old flesh, or too much flesh generally? I have seen some appalling visions of lardy teenagers showing everything bar the genitals in our small market town. TMI laydeez.

[Oblomov17]

I know someone who was described as "mutton dressed as lamb", by a very conservative older gentleman.

She is a teacher, in her 60's who wears very very tight fitting clothes, like a spray on dress that clings to every part of her body, with very very high heels, or thigh high very high heeled boots.

It's like being 60 and trying to dress like a 21 year old.

And despite the figure, there is something not quite right about it.

That's not a jealousy thing. I love appreciating gorgeous figures on other women. So I don't think it's a jealousy thing.

It's not as common these days. But it still happens occasionally.

[taybert]

So if the teacher was in her 20s and wearing thigh high stiletto boots or a spray on dress would that be completely un noteworthy? Is it her age alone which makes the outfit unsuitable?

[OCSockOrphanage]

IMVHO wearing the outfit Taybert describes is unprofessional at any age, unless one is on the game. I would prefer my DS is not taught by anyone dressed that way, as it would distract his attention from Victorian poetry.

[taybert]

Well OC, if you read oblomov's post you will note one horrifying detail: the dress clings to EVERY part of her body. THAT MUST MEAN YOU CAN SEE THE SHAPE OF HER ANKLES!

[WhooooAmI24601]

I've not heard in in years. It's rude and dismissive and a bit of a shitty thing to say. The whole thing has a basis in telling women that their fundamental value comes from how youthfully they dress and look. It's awful.

And OP I have to say, your "if they have the figure...who cares" is one of those comments that feeds into it. What if they don't have the figure? Is it hurting anyone if a size 20 woman wants to wear a pair of short shorts? If a size 24 woman wears a tight dress. Fashion and style aren't linked to body size, they're linked to confidence. Wear what you damn well like because people are always going to judge. Pity anyone who believes the phrase "mutton" is appropriate.