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Caroline Hirons. Am I the only person that really does NOT rate her advice?

(57 Posts)
Fuckitthatlldo Mon 25-Nov-13 10:04:40

No sunscreen every day? And never over SPF 20 ever???

No red meat or dairy?

You only get what you pay for with skincare and you need to be spending £40.00 - £60.00 if you want a decent cleanser???? shock


I'm sorry, but that's just rubbish. Liz Earle Cleanse and Polish and Avene Extremely Gentle cleanser are two of the best at only £12.00 each. And as for no sunscreen...

This woman is not a dermatologist. She's a 'beautician' who's worked in the industry for a long time (and clearly has a lot of contacts.) She has no medical qualifications as far as I know and some of her advice would have a decent derm tearing their hair out.

CarolBornAMan Mon 25-Nov-13 10:21:40

She has never claimed to be a dermatologist and she just presents us with her opinions and experience - up to you to accept or reject it - so you reject it - why should the rest of us follow you?

Good for you if the LE chemical mush works for you - I hate it, makes my skin raw so I need another recommendation..

As for red meat and dairy - I assume this refers to her recommendations to reduce acne - there are trials to show some people have issues with this stuff and removal can help..

Never like this sort of post - she does not set herself up to be the only person with opinions so why shoot her down?

BunnyLebowski Mon 25-Nov-13 10:25:13

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coffeeinbed Mon 25-Nov-13 10:30:19

I agree with some of her advice.
I don't use suncream every day - is it really necessary in November and December, here in the UK anyway?
My foundation has some, but I use very little of it.
She has a thing about cleansing and exfoliating, if I did that my skin would be bleeding raw.

The thing is, with all skin care and all sort of beauty recommendation, you have to pick what works for you.

there's no gospel.

Workberk Mon 25-Nov-13 10:37:54

You shouldn't use sunscreen every day, if you're not going to be exposed to strong sun (ie dull winter days).

Fuckitthatlldo Mon 25-Nov-13 10:48:57

The thing is though Carol she doesn't express herself as though it is just her opinion. She states it as though it's absolute fact. Her writing style is very bolshy actually. And I just feel that if she is telling people to spend huge amounts of unnecessary money and encouraging them not to dilligently protect themselves from what can be the highly dangerous effects of the sun, then presenting herself as some sort of expert is highly questionable.

In fact there is no medical evidence at all to prove that certain foods cause acne. It would be extremely difficult to do any controlled trials in the first place (as everybody's different and everybody has to eat, so who knows what is causing what). Having said that, it's my personal opinion that sugar has a bad effect on my skin so I don't eat it. There is evidence emerging that sugar depletes collagen so I may be proved to be right. Who knows. Other people feel that certain foods trigger them too so they avoid them. That's cool. But it's not definitive proof of cause and effect.

And just because Liz Earle doesn't work for you doesn't mean you need to spend vast quantities of money on a different cleanser. There are many gentle, hypoallergenic, and affordable cleansers out there. They do just as good a job as anything you might bankrupt yourself to buy.

Fuckitthatlldo Mon 25-Nov-13 10:56:29

Almost all properly qualified medical dermatologists recommend us to wear sunscreen all year round. Certain types of UV rays don't care if it's cloudy. When it's a cold, crisp, winter day the sun can actually be very strong. This is particularly important if you use any kind of exfoliating acids, peels, retinoids e.t.c.

I do see how this comes across as extreme (and a faff) though. Also it can be hard to find a sunscreen that works (ie doesn't clog pores, look greasy, give off a whitish cast e.t.c.) but that's the advice from properly trained people.

KosherBacon Mon 25-Nov-13 11:04:14

There is a national problem of vitamin D deficiency. My GP has a theory that part of it relates to moisturisers and makeup with SPF stopping the production in our bodies. We don't spend as much time outdoors, which is a big factor, and when we are we are stopping our vitamin d production with sunscreen.

lurkingaround Mon 25-Nov-13 11:13:18

Thank goodness I'm not the only one. I totally agree with everything you say OP. It's a heap of shite. Makes my teeth itch so I don't read it.

I'm all for having a dermatologist and get proper evidence supported advice. We know sun causes damage. Therefore protect. We have a fair idea sugar is the devil, therefore avoid. (yes yes I know, I eat too much)

Like Fuckit says, there are loads of decent, affordable skincare ranges out there. Not a huge amount of difference between them, bar the price.

Fuckitthatlldo Mon 25-Nov-13 11:17:38

SPF just protects the area it's applied to - it doesn't stop the body producing anything. You can get vitamin D from sunlight on the backs of your hands and other exposed areas of skin, and a decent balanced diet will also give you healthy amounts too.

I often hear vague rumours about vit D deficiency becoming a real problem. But how? Who do you know who's vitamin D deficient? I don't know anyone. I've been wearing sunscreen for aeons and I'm not vitamin D deficient.

lurkingaround Mon 25-Nov-13 11:30:43

I have just read Caroline Hirons' post on breakouts. She recommends low dairy, which is fair enough as there is more and more evidence showing dairy can promote acne. But if you must have dairy she recommends skimmed organic dairy. Lower fat milk is the worst for promoting spots. There are more hormones in it than in full fat milk (hormones are protein bound, more protein in skimmed). Organic makes no difference to the amount of hormones. Poor advice
FInding it hard to read any more.

In fairness, it does appear Vit D deficiency is a problem in northen Europe. Probably always was tho, we just don't get enough of the right wavelength sunlight in the winter months and it is very difficult to eat enough vit D in the average diet. It's just easier to measure Vit D levels these days. I take 1000 units Vit D supplement daily.

ShinyBauble Mon 25-Nov-13 11:41:26

She suggests not going over 20 for a good reason. Sometimes people slather on the factor 50 and think they're covered all day. The effects of sunscreen don't last long, and it's better to use a lower spf and refresh it often.

CarolBornAMan Mon 25-Nov-13 11:53:31

Actually if you read her blog correctly, you will see that she does advocate wearing sunscreen - SPF Cheat Sheet

There is scientific evidence to show a link between dairy and acne - just as there is with sugar leading to breakdown of collagen

And yes a quick google would show that there is an increase in Vit D deficiency - have 2 friends who are being treated for it. Read this bbc report on Vit D deficiency . you only get about 10% of needed amount from diet.

Caroline does not just recommend expensive ranges - I find her quite eclectic in her recommendations - I have the intelligence to read her blog and make my own choices - I like some of her ideas and ignore some of the others .. not sure why you feel the need to rant incorrectly about her when some of your own opinions dont hold up?

lurkingaround Mon 25-Nov-13 12:05:56

All sunscreen will break down, whther it's SPF20 or 50. The reason for using 30 and higher is because we use far too little to get the coorect factor, so for example, you need about a teaspoon of SPF 20 to cover your face, to get the correct level, and none of us would tolerate tha thickness of product.

And yes re the dairy and acne, but as I said above her advice is wrong. Skimmed milk as she advises is worse for acne than fullfat milk.

I think OP's issue is that she writes as tho it is proven fact, when really, it isn't, and some of her facts are wrong.

squoosh Mon 25-Nov-13 12:15:16

'I often hear vague rumours about vit D deficiency becoming a real problem. But how? Who do you know who's vitamin D deficient? I don't know anyone. I've been wearing sunscreen for aeons and I'm not vitamin D deficient.'

Yes actually, me. My vitamin D deficiency exacerbated my psoriasis. It is also believed that Vitamin D deficiency is one of the root causes of the West of Scotland's massive MS problem, they have the highest MS levels in the world. There's a lot of research being done into auto immune disease and chronically low levels of Vitamin D.

cauliwauli Mon 25-Nov-13 12:16:58

Her advice to use a flannel is good!

I read it and take it or leave it depending on what I need, her writing style makes me laugh out loud, she's hilarious!

I find it quite sad that so many people ask questions which can sometimes be quite desperate. She can't possibly answer them all and it seems a bit random on those she does answer due to time constraints no doubt.

Any review she does gets clogged with comments from people asking about specific skincare problems which have nothing to do with the product reviewed. She must have the patience of a Saint!

KosherBacon Mon 25-Nov-13 12:19:10

I am vitamin d deficient as is my SIL. Both separately went to see our gps about feeling unwell, both had bloods done, both deficient.

squoosh Mon 25-Nov-13 12:19:54

I don't think you need to spend megabucks in order to find good products but I wouldn't recommend Liz Earle's cleanser to anyone. Awful stuff.

As far as I'm aware she's never claimed to be a dermatologist? Think she's very clear about this.

Fuckitthatlldo Mon 25-Nov-13 13:08:04

Carol what I said was that she doesn't advocate wearing it every day - and never over factor 20. I personally feel that is bad (and potentially dangerous) advice.

I've never met anyone who was (as far as I know) vitamin D deficient. But clearly there are some people here who are. Ok. But that doesn't mean we shouldn't wear sunscreen. The fact that - as one poster suggested - it seems to be so prevalent in Scotland would suggest there just isn't enough sunlight anyway, so supplementation seems a better option that exposing oneself to harmful rays unnecessarily.

My beef with Hirons is that she presents her opinions as fact, and also that she says really outrageous things regarding the need to spend a lot of money on expensive products.

I've personally never read any proper scientific evidence linking dairy to acne, and have never heard a dermatologist suggest there might be a link either, but again, if I'm wrong - ok. It's not just dairy Hirons advises against though, it's all sorts of things - red meat, orange juice... and there is just no real evidence to back all this up.

The beauty business makes a huge amount of money out of women - money that we don't need to spend - and IMHO Hirons is just a cog in the machine.

cauliwauli Mon 25-Nov-13 13:13:08

I bought Hydraluron specifically because of her recommendation but was very disappointed. I also tried the Clarins exfoliating toner but it was a bit meh so now I take it all with a pinch of salt.

Neither of these things were known to me before and although expensive mistake-wise, it was good to try different things. I wasn't forced to try them but I was intrigued!

LE cleanse & polish brings me out in lumps and bumps under the skin. Hate it.

JemimaPuddle Mon 25-Nov-13 13:14:41

If you got good or ok skin with no real issues spending a lot of money does seem silly and no doubt most skincare will be much of a muchness to people with ok skin.

However, as someone who has had problems with their skin I can say there are not loads of affordable options for me. Yes there are a couple of great budget buys I've found but generally the products which have made a difference have been more expensive ones.

Also one persons affordable is a another persons cheap. There are lots of people to whom Liz Earle for example would just be too expensive.

jasmine1979 Mon 25-Nov-13 13:20:46

The main problem I have with Hirons is the fact that she does seem to present everything she says as fact. Women around the country just seem to be lapping it up at the moment and following her advice like lemmings.
I do like her writing style and really believe that her simple style is one of the reasons that many like and believe her. On the face of it, a lot of what she says is good common sense, but also so much of it seems plucked from nowhere.
I don't want to be mean, but she honestly does not have the best skin going. Far from it in fact. She isn't a very good advert for her advice.
I read this thread about her here and found it quite eye opening in some ways.

QueenCadbury Mon 25-Nov-13 13:23:32

My dad has been advised to not wear sunscreen every day for his vitamin d deficiency. And taking a supplement of vitamin d doesn't help always as your body can't utilise it correctly.

I've never heard of Caroline hirons so can't comment specifically on her but some of what you are saying fuck is also incorrect.

Fuckitthatlldo Mon 25-Nov-13 14:28:02

Well Dr Sam Bunting advocates daily use of high factor sunscreen and recommends diet and supplementation as a way of ensuring vitamin D intake. And she's a fully qualified medical and cosmetic dermatologist:

Fuckitthatlldo Mon 25-Nov-13 14:39:02

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