DPs ex wants him to pay her cash as she has an IVA

[Ulverstonian]

Hi everyone,

DP has a daughter from a previous relationship and pays CMS monthly to his ex by bank transfer. She has recently taken out an IVA and has to send monthly bank statements to the insolvency practitioner. She has asked if DP can pay her CMS in cash so that the insolvency practitioner doesn’t see it and include it as part of her income.

I’m concerned that if he pays her cash there will be no record of the payments and she could claim that he hasn’t paid her any CMS. Also, surely an insolvency practitioner will see that the CMS is money intended for DSD and won’t see it as DPs ex income?

[Teddybear45]

Don’t do it. If she has issues then the monet should go into an account in the child’s name.

[Ulverstonian]

@teddy

That’s a really good idea. We definitely need a record that it’s been paid.

[InTheHeatofLisbon]

I second the idea of a bank account in the child's name, you definitely do need records that it's being paid!

[slipperywhensparticus]

Just a second bank account will do they take all your money into consideration even my sons dla went up for grabs and it wasnt even my debt it was from his ex wife but "family money" means it gets counted

Get her to write receipts? I feel for her those Ivas are awful

[Ulverstonian]

We’ve been thinking about how we can help out, so that DSD doesn’t suffer. We’re thinking of dropping her off with a couple of bags of food shopping, when we take DSD home on a Sunday night.

[HerRoyalNotness]

I wouldn’t muck around about this. From a quick google, maintenance is taken as income but a child’s expenses are taken into account also. She won’t lose the whole amount of maintenance towards debts but a percentage. Another bit mentioned if there is no sign of maintenance being paid then she could be asked to pursue it.

Just leave it as it is

[Ulverstonian]

@slipperywhensparticus

Could we set up a bank account in DSD’s name and have it registered to our house, rather than DPs ex house. But give DPs ex access to it?

[HerRoyalNotness]

Food shopping is a great idea, also helping out when she needs clothes etc by buying them for her mums house.

[TooTrueToBeGood]

I wouldn't even consider paying it into the child's account. Standing order to her account with it labelled as maintenance is the only safe way. She could easily argue that the payments into the child's account were a gift/savings for the child and nothing to do with her maintenance.

[Ulverstonian]

@herroyal

Just seen your post about her being asked to pursue the maintenance if there’s no sign of it.

[lunar1]

Does he pay anything over the minimum CSA say? That could be given in cash if he does. You need the transactions recorded.

[Ulverstonian]

I feel a bit better knowing that only a percentage of the CMS will be taken by the insolvency practitioner and DSDs needs will be taken into account.

I don’t know a great deal about IVAs, only what I read up on this week.

[DullPortraits]

Insolvency wont take maintenance payments in to account as the money is towards the upkeep of the child not a source of income to the person receiving it. Only her earned income and savings is taken in to account.

[Ulverstonian]

He pays the minimum CMS but also pays for most clothes, school uniform and shoes, and the 30% of holiday club that DPs ex can’t claim back from the DWP.

The reason he pays the minimum is because he used to pay more but he didn’t think it was being spent on DSD so decided he would buy her the things she needed directly. I’m assuming this was because DPs ex was drowning in credit card repayments.

[Ulverstonian]

It’s a really shit situation for her to be in. I don’t know her well enough to ask how this happened. She doesn’t seem to lead a flash lifestyle. I do feel sorry for her but our priority is to make sure that DSD isn’t affected.

[SandyY2K]

Surely, they'll be asking for her bank statements going back over a certain timeframe? Otherwise anyone could divert payments to reflect a lower income.

I think a bank account in the child's name, but with the payments clearly labelled child support is fine.

Depending on the age of the child an account can be opened in their absence and controlled by the parent/s.

[brightfutureahead]

No way. If he gives her the cash then there is no record of payment, and if she’s got debts an extra bit of money might be tempting to her and all it takes is one phone call to the CMS and one lie.

[Ulverstonian]

@SandyY2K

Yes, I thought they’d need evidence of her income going back a year or so they could assess her annual income to work out what her repayments should be.

@bright

Yes, I agree. We definitely need a record that it’s been paid.

[HotChocolateLover]

Absolutely don’t pay her in cash. I agree with all the PP’s who have suggested things like doing a food shop. If DSD has school dinners then maybe you could top up her account every week. If she’s on a pre payment meter for gas/electric then maybe you could agree to pay £20 a week or whatever for that. Anything you can do like that to help free up other cash will be appreciated.

[TeacupDrama]

the money in a child's bank account belongs to the child legally even if the ex is the trsutee it can only be used specifically for the child, but child maintenance is not just for child's clothes and toys it is to keep a roof over their head so it contributes to rent/ mortgage electricity water etc it is not fun money to be spent on treats for the kid, but money in a child's bank account can't be used to pay towards rent for their home you need to check this out very carefully as ex is accountable for spending her child's money and food rent etc isn't normally what it is for it would not be fair for ex to end up being accused of stealing from her child
if you set up an account and pay money into it in the name of child it is assumed it is for the child and when they are 18 the money will be theirs at no point is the money actually the parents often the bank will ask why you are withdrawing if you say to pay for adventure holiday with scouts fine if you say to buy this weeks groceries not fine.
you need to speak to a bank, maybe set up a separate account for ex into which CMS is paid but in ex's name
I don't think CMS should be taken into account for debts

[TeacupDrama]

you could even get an old fashioned duplicate rent style book with signed receipts for the cash when handed over so she has a copy and you have a copy perfectly legal and valid and records the cash transfer

eg
Receipt No. 1
Received £56.34 from Mr X Smith as child maintenance for child Y for the week beginning 5th August 2019 signed Ms Q Jones
receipt 2 will obviously be week 12th august etc

[MummytoCSJH]

I think you're best keeping on with what you're doing now. It means that the 'minimum CMS' is recorded as a bank payment, and that he can't be chased for not paying when he has, whether they take that into account or not is not your issue and you shouldn't have to pay more because they take a percentage towards the debt she has got herself in. The cash towards childcare and items carry on doing, and if DP wants to do a bit more then the bits and bobs others have suggested sound nice, but only as long as it benefits child first and foremost.

[SandyY2K]

the money in a child's bank account belongs to the child legally even if the ex is the trsutee it can only be used specifically for the child

This doesn't happen in practice.

I opened accounts for my DC in their names when they were babies. My name is down as operating the account on their behalf.

I have always had control of those accounts. I used to deposit money they got as gifts and money I was/am saving for them when they go to University.

The child doesn't even have to know the account exists tbh.

[OhLookHeKickedTheBall]

I'd be very wary of what she's suggesting personally. My fathers ex did similar many many years before cms existed, and ended up with his butt hauled back to court for failure to pay. Only light in that was that the court recognised my fathers change in circumstances and the figure was dropped. Father never paid the lower figure though (kept it as initial) and always adjusted upwards when he got pay rises. He never ever trusted ex again

[Ulverstonian]

I don’t think hiding the income from CMS is going to work. I’ve just had a look on moneysavingexpert and it says that the insolvency practitioner will require the last 3 months bank statements, possibly 12. She will then have a review every year where she will have to again provide 3 months, possibly 12 months bank statements. She also has to provide wage slips and letters confirming what benefits she gets. It looks like it’s pretty hard to hide anything from them.