Contact arrangements transport

[Rhinosaurus]

Hi, can I ask what is the convention for pick up / drop off for contact.

Basically - NRP had child removed by social care and put with other parent due to various issues.

NRP does not pay maintenance at all although is working for minimum wage and does a second job for approx £65 a week.

NRP sees child two weekends a month - by NRP choice (there is a safety plan in place put there by social care). NRP flatly refuses to pay maintenance or contribute to child’s clothing. Previously the parent who now has care contributed £200 a month Maintenance and paid for school trips/clothes. Also saw the child three days a week.

Now NRP has offered the princely sum of £7 a week maintenance but would like RP to drop off for contact and they will return the child. Currently the NRP reluctantly picks up and drops off the twice a month that there is contract. There have been occasions where the NRP has demanded the RP Collects the child otherwise the child will not be returned - but RP has threatened to phone social care and the NRP has bought back. The distance is around 30 miles each way.

The child is ambivalent about contact but is encouraged to maintain the relationship with the other parent.

The child is usually returned at 6.30pm on a Sunday with a bag full of dirty school clothes (is picked up from school Fridays) and has not been given dinner. Apparently the NRP has bought clothes, but these have to remain at the NRP residence.

Is the convention, when the child is only being seen four days a month over 2 visits for the NRP to arrange the transport? What do other people do?

[Rhinosaurus]

Also, CMS have been approached but as the NRP is working for a relative and is paid as self employed they are only declaring the part time job income and the NRP says that the £7 is what the CMS deem they have to pay.

[Rhinosaurus]

Sorry - keep thinking of other relevant into - NRP lives with a partner who works full time, has another school aged child with their partner who lives with them

[PoesyCherish]

It's not relevant that their partner works full time. What is relevant is they have a DC living with them which ordinarily would reduce the amount of maintenance they pay. Though I'm not sure how it will influence how much maintenance they pay if they're only paying £7.

We do every other weekend contact plus a few weeks in the holidays. DSD gets dropped off about halfway (it's a mutually convenient place) and then she gets dropped back by my DP to her Mum's.

I don't think there is a norm for travelling tbh. Lots of families split the travelling, lots of families have the NRP doing all the travelling. Who moved the 30 miles away?

[Rhinosaurus]

The child moved 30 miles away due to social care issues - the distance has been there for some time, when the situation was reversed the then NRP did all the travelling.

I know partners working isn’t relevant, it’s to give an idea is the household set up.

[NorthernSpirit]

SM here. 2 SC - my OH has them EOW & half the holidays. Been split up / divorced 7 years from EW. Of those 7 years my OH (non RP) has done every pick up & drop off.

To give you an idea of what this entails...... my OH works in London & gets the train to work. On a Fri pick up day - he wakes up at 5:30am, drives to a station near the mothers house (13 miles, takes an hour). Parks his car there. Takes a 45 min train into work. After work takes a 45 min train back to the station his car is at. Drives to pick the kids up and drives the hour back home.

The mother once was asked if she could drop the kids at the station (a 15 min walk away) and she told him to f’ck off. I should add she doesn’t work on a Fri.

IMO it would be fairer to do 50:50 drop offs / pick ups. But in our case the mother is so hostile it’s not worth asking.

With regards to maintenance - go through the CMS. The NRP should be paying the right amount of maintenance (my OH pats £750 a month and apparently it’s a ‘pathetic contribution’).

[PoesyCherish]

@Rhinosaurus I put into the CMS calculator what you said about £65 pw and it does say they only need to pay £7 pw. Which is awful but you'd have a hell of a job proving they work for a relative if it's cash in hand.

I don't understand why it matters what the household setup is?

Anyway like I said personally I think travelling should be split and I'd have said the same when the situation were reversed and the now RP was NRP.

@NorthernSpirit unless she has mobility issues she sounds bloody lazy!

[ArnoldBee]

Basically it's not fair but you need to do what's in the best interests of the child while quietly seething aboutvtgr injustice of it all.

[TropicalStorm123]

My DS’s dad has never picked him up or dropped him off, we always meet half way or I do the whole trip.
He also doesn’t pay any maintenance (works cash in hand and I can’t be bothered dealing with CMS to get £5pw).
It’s crap, it’s not fair but I do it because if I didn’t my DS wouldn’t have steady contact with his dad. And although his dad is pretty useless he’s still his dad and my son needs to have a relationship with him.

Basically you just do it because it’s what is best for the child.

[Rhinosaurus]

I thought the household set up was relevant to maintenance as there is a child in that household?

The child does not even want to go on contact a lot or time but enjoys it once they are there, and needs to have a relationship with both parents, so we don’t want to deny that opportunity. However it seems that the demands made when the situation was reversed only apply to one parent.

[TropicalStorm123]

Sorry I’m sure I understand the point you are making? Having another person’s resident child living with them would only ever reduce the amount of money the NRP has to pay. The partner’s income isn’t taken in to consideration at all.
Eg my income isn’t taken in to consideration when calculating what DH has to pay to his ex but the fact that he has two other resident children reduces the minimum figure.

This may seem unfair but this is the same regardless of whether NRP is the mother or father.
Unfortunately there are NRP all over who are getting away with paying less than they should be, there’s also some paying more than they should be. Eg DH has over paid by thousands in the last 18 months because CMS keep calculating the figure incorrectly and are utterly impossible to deal with and just ignore letters we send proving that he has already paid arrears.

As a parent who gets nothing from the ex - I find it better to just accept it and have pride in knowing that your child has everything they need thanks to you and you only. The other option just leaves you bitter.

[Rhinosaurus]

I wasn’t making any point - previously we have had a private arrangement when circumstances were different but the CMS says there is a deduction for a child living in the NRP household?

My question was about travel arrangements for contact, and the fact that if the NRP was going to pay £7 a week they expected not to have to do the contact pick up / drop off. I wondered what other people do about contact arrangements.

Yes it would be easy to be bitter and very easily stop contact as the child isn’t that bothered. We won’t be doing this, despite the temptation, but it also seems a piss take that the NRP is not taking any financial responsibility towards their child at all and complaining about having to collect and drop off their child twice a month, and if they pay a paltry £7 a week they expect to have the child delivered and collected from their door!

[stuffedpeppers]

OP -i am going to make an assumption that the now NRP who ahd child removed is the mother.
If £7 is all the CMS says then so be it, it sucks that an unrelated child reduces the amount, it sucks that self employed earnings are not taken into account.

However, welcome to the world of more than 50% of single parent families - it is completely wrong from either side, just more unusual that it is a woman as the NRP.

For those of us who have had EXHs do exactly the above and worse, whilst enjoying business class flights to Barabdos for the new family but not include their own DCs or pay maintenance -there is no justice.

More than 50% of fathers do not pay any maintenance...........

[FinallyFree123456789]

@Rhinosaurus
I am the RP of my dd.
Ex partner (NRP) has children in the house - not their biological children - and gets a reduction in maintenance approx £5 pw
It doesn't matter if the partner is working - that's their income and not the NRP income.

NRP also has to do all the collections and the drop offs as that's what's stipulated in our court order.

[Rhinosaurus]

Oh I know that dads do not pay, I bought up my son without a penny of maintenance as his dad kept moving jobs every time the csa caught up with him! I am now bringing up another child without maintenance!

If we were to go to court to get contact formally sorted out in a child arrangement order, can courts now look at maintenance as the csa is no more?

[PoesyCherish]

@Rhinosaurus any agreement made through court re maintenance could then be overwritten by the CMS a year after issuing the order.

Maintenance and contact are not linked. Maintenance and transport are typically not linked either other than if you have a certain amount of transport costs you can get a reduction to your CMS. Whether it's fair or not isn't the point here and despite your assurances that it would be easy to become bitter but you're not, it really does sound like you are bitter.

[FinallyFree123456789]

@Rhinosaurus

I asked court to do this for me - and they told me no They don't deal with maintenance and had to go to the CMS - who took over for the child maintenance.
Have you told them all the employment details? You can open up a fraud case with them - it does take 22-26 weeks for them to investigate though ....

[Rhinosaurus]

Oh yes, I am bitter alright - on here on an anonymous forum where I can say what I feel without any comeback.

I am not bitter in front of the child, maintenance is not discussed within the hearing of the child.

[TropicalStorm123]

To be bitter is like swallowing poison and expecting the other person to die.

It’s not right, it’s not fair but you’ll never change how the ex is, you’ll be happier once you just let it go.
I’m speaking from experience here. Just concentrate on you, your DP and the child and make sure you’re doing the best you can and forget the ex. The child will decide in their own time who was there for them.

[Bananasinpyjamas11]

I wouldn’t be enabling the contact by transport tbh. Your job is now RP and focus on that.

If they want to take you to court over Transport, let them.

All your energies on the child, and having a happy house protected from outside stress. Anything that’s not to do with that, like the other parents contact, not your responsibility you’ve got enough on your plate.

[TooSassy]

If it’s remotely a bone of contention, then drop off picks can be court ordered and where the parents simply cannot agree on even one thing they need to be. Judges will make a decision based on circumstances.

DP’s ex demanded that DP do 100% of the travelling to collect DC’s. Judge refused and it is shared.

[PoesyCherish]

I was coming on to say exactly what @TropicalStorm123 has said.

It's good you're not bitter in front of the DC but honestly the only person it's hurting is you. The ex won't care if your bitter. In fact some exes are happy if they're causing their ex and DP pain. It's not right you have to do all travelling, it's not right you don't get much maintenance. But other than getting travelling nailed down in court, there's not a whole lot you can do. And chances are court would order half travelling for each of you