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Lying about csa payments .. also posted in chat

(13 Posts)
flippyflapper Thu 02-Nov-17 16:46:16

Ok this one is a bit of a difficult one so I will do my best to explain and not drip feed.

Me and dh been together 17 years dh has a daughter who is now about to turn 18.

Dh and ex have a private agreement through I guess the csa where they calculated amount and dh pays said payment every month and has done since they split

When dsd turned 7 ex moved 8hrs away with dsd. Maintence continued and we only saw dsd in holidays

Dh has contact with daughter but I guess being nearly 18 going to college working and having a boyfriend and friends we don't get to see her much but video calls and texts regularly.

Dh and I spoke about payments as we are sure legally when dsd turns 18 payments dont have to be made. So after a discussion we decided to keep payments going till dsd is more settled and has a full time job etc.

We found out today from dh's sister that she has moved to about 45 mins away from us and has done so for 2 years. Dh is hurt as he would of loved to spent some time with her and feels he has missed out when she said she was busy etc.

Problem is dh's ex has always maintained that she still lives at home so he pays the maintience in to her account.
Dsd hasn't received any of the money and didn't say anything to dh but felt upset as she thought dh just stopped paying which I think is why maybe she hasn't been in contact alot lately.

So if you have managed to get through all of that .. is there anything we can do. It's alot of money a month that dsd was entitled too and well more than likely needs every penny.

We don't want to involve dsd too much in it but not sure where to go next

swingofthings Thu 02-Nov-17 17:35:39

Who did she moved with? Officially, the adult she moved with should have been claiming maintenance, so it would have made no difference to your OH. Also, it is not correct that it ends at 18, it ends when they finish college or when they reach 20, whichever is the earliest.

As for your SD not getting anything, it all depends on the arrangements. She might have been giving money to the adult she lived with or/and continued to pay for her clothes, mobile, transport etc....

Although it might be the case that the mother just pocketed the money for herself, it sounds like you will need more evidence before your OH start accusing her of stealing.

endofthelinefinally Thu 02-Nov-17 17:42:44

DSD is an adult and your DH needs to meet her and talk to her.
The payments are for her so he needs to sort out where she is living and what loans and expenses she has.
He can then pay the maintenance directly to her.
If he feels it is necessary he should get legal advice.

flippyflapper Thu 02-Nov-17 18:18:14

We no 100% that dsd hasn't had any of the money. We think she is staying with her boyfriends family.

Dh only got this info not long before work and is working till early morning so hopefully he will get answers tom.

Dsd has been very distant we thought her age being an adult busy etc but gutted to think that we just stopped paying.

Dh ex will not awswer text messages or calls from her. He tried again on his break and she sent it to voice mail.. it's been like this for years as no need to contact anymore as dh speaks to dsd directly and ex made it very clear not to call anymore.

NorthernSpirit Thu 02-Nov-17 19:11:49

CSA or the new CMS payments stop when the child is 16 or upto 20 years if the child is in full time education (upto A level or equivalent).

If the child is at college and working then I presume she is PT then maintenance stops. Is she in FT education? Is she doing A levels or equivalent?

If she is in FT education and isn’t living with the mother then she should receive the payment not the ex.

It’s sad to hear the daughter has moved close to you and hasn’t told you (for 2 years). You need to ask her (the daughter) why.

flippyflapper Thu 02-Nov-17 20:00:46

Yes I agree very sad. Dh sister said it's mostly because we apparently stopped payments and I'm not sure what her mum may or may not of said to her why.

To us obviously that money was never ours so it's no loss to us but for her it's a big chunk of money that could really help her and ger future.

I no she was full day Wednesday and Friday and weekend so I take it that's PT education.

I stay about of payments conversations that ever went on it's always been between ex and dh I always wanted to stay out of it and just concentrate on dsd when she came over.

It's upsetting was she telling fibs when she said she was busy? Of course she is at college in week and works when she isn't so we always thought it was that and with a 8hr journey for her being so busy .. but 45 minutes away dh could of gone to her even for a cuppa and catch up. I hope it can be sorted

NorthernSpirit Thu 02-Nov-17 20:23:47

Maintenance is important (and it’s both parents responsibility to pay for children) but children are not ‘pay per view’ and irs sad to hear that the daughter stopped seeing her dad as she thought maintenance wasn’t being paid. At 18 years you led I suggest your partner sets her straight on that, as you don’t know what the mother has told her.

Sounds like she’s PT so maintenance officially stops. Obviously it’s upto your OH if he chooses to continue to pay.

It’s really sad that the daughter stoppped seeing her dad because she thought payments stopped. Your OH needs to rebuild the relationship. At 18 she’s an adult so it’s upto her.

flippyflapper Thu 02-Nov-17 21:16:57

Sorry if you read wrong we are not annoyed that we pay and dont get to see her. Yes we miss her she has brothers and sisters here that miss her, but I get it at 18 I had my own life and only because I lived with my parents I may pop my head In before bed and that was it so I get well understood when she said she was busy.

Yes hopefully dh can rebuild a relationship even tho they talk and Skype alot and text it's not the same.

Yes we will continue to pay till dsd is is dull time work as to be honest and we agreed that sum has always been paid so it's never seen as our money and not missed if that makes sense.

Anyway thank you for your advice hopefully tom dh can sort things tom with bank transfers

Samesituation Thu 02-Nov-17 21:45:23

Payments continue until a child leaves full time non advanced education ie up to A-level. If your child goes to uni maintenance stops. If your child say does 'nothing' after reaching 18, and still lives at home with their parent AND child benefit is still in payment then maintenance could continue up to age 20.
However in your situation OP I dont think it matters what your SD was doing as i dont think her mum was entitled to maintenance payments when she moved out if she wasnt entitled to child benefit.
You may wish to contact child benefit office for a general enquiry about this.
If this is the case I suspect you and DH will have great difficulty in proving this to CSA or CMS whichever is assessing your case. The problem being they rely heavily on whether or not child benefit is in payment. And I suspect mum has never told child benefit office your SD is no longer living with her. You should contact CSA and advise them of this. They can check child benefit records. Mum also has a legal duty to advise CSA of changes to her or daughter's circumstances that could affect maintenance payments. If you don't agree with their decision you can ask for mandatory reconsideration and can then appeal. However, also bear in mind depending on who SD is living with another adult guardian could make a claim for maintenance from DH if all the criteria is met.

NorthernSpirit Thu 02-Nov-17 22:00:56

Maintenance stops for a child at 16 UNLESS they are in full time education.

If the child at 18 isn’t in education and chooses not to work then the tax payer is burdened with paying for her.

OP as you have a private agreement then you don’t ‘have’ to pay (although of course your OH has a moral obligation).

The daughter is 18 and only if she’s in FT education does your partner have to pay.

swingofthings Fri 03-Nov-17 05:40:59

I don't understand how, if they have telephone/skype contact, your DH hasn't know for two years where she lived. Surely there would have been hint about money etc...

If I was your OH and suspected that I'd been paying for two years money that would have gone into the pocket of the ex, I would be right on the phone with DD asking whether she would now that she is about to turn 18, prefer to get the money directly rather than it being sent to her mum. She can then either say yes or act surprised and he will know.

As said before though, it could very well be that her mum gives her some pocket money and still pays her bills, maybe gives something to the parents but DD doesn't consider it as part of the maintenance.

flippyflapper Fri 03-Nov-17 18:39:41

Thank you everyone for the help.

Dh spike to dd today unfortunetly she hasn't had any of the money her mum told her it stopped at 16.

Dsd and dh have spoke along time dh has her bank details so miney shall go into there now.

Can't get in contact with ex at all. Dsd doesn't want to upset her as she is struggling financially she has 3 other children and from what dsd saod there dad's dont pay maintence and ex doesn't work so maybe this explains why she kept the money. So dsd doesn't want to argue with her mum about it. She is a kind hearted girl who hates any conflict.

So all in all dad didn't think we paid, ex has had money. Dsd and dh relationship back on track and we get to see her next weekend when dh is off work

swingofthings Fri 03-Nov-17 19:19:48

So is she is FT education or not? Because if she is, the ex might very well go to CSA (or whatever it's called now) to ask for maintenance. She is most likely still claiming child benefits and parents can still in some instances claim it even if their child doesn't live with them. Then trying to justify that maintenance is not due can be much more difficult that it should be.

If she's kept all the money and not paid a penny towards her DD then that is awful but again, I would check that nothing has been paid to the boyfriend's parents. You never know, they might have an arrangement that DSD doesn't know about. It sounds most unlikely but you never know.

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