Change of residence for dscs

(35 Posts)
wheresthel1ght Mon 18-Sep-17 09:45:54

Morning folks,

So dp has finally lost it with his ex neglect and bs over her treatment of their kids and although he won't allow me to involve social services he has issued her with an ultimatium that even the kids have asked to be upheld.

It may seem utterly trivial but she refuses to treat them for nits. Doesn't think it is an issue in spite of the fact that dsd is being bullied at school as they are literally crawling over her face.

We treat them every time they are here and comb through, the kids are combing through themselves but all the treatments advise to retreat after 7 days to ensure cycle is broken and she is refusing. We have provided the stuff, shown her pics of the state of their hair and she thinks we are making it up.

Dsd also has toilet issues, at 11 still wets and messes although she has been much better over the summer. Mum claims this doesn't happen at hers but we know it's bull as one of the reasons dsd hides her dirty underwear is because her mum screams at her and she is scared it will happen here too. It doesn't at all, she gets told off for hiding it not for the incident, we know she can't help it. There is no medical reason as she has been fully checked over etc but it is worse when she is worried about things.

The last 2 weekends she has been with us she has been in tears as I have combed her hair. Her scalp is littered in scabs as is her neck, it is hurting her because if eggs etc.

Kids have said be their preference is to stay living with mum if she starts treating them properly and dealing with the nits rather than bitching about it but dsd has asked if she can come and live here if her mum refuses because she is fed up of scratching and being picked on.

We have said of course she can, and dp has told his ex that this is what will happen at next contact weekend if she doesnt start dealing with it.

There is jo court order in place so we have jo issues there but do we need to do anything else regarding change of residence other than notify school and doctor etc?

Also, any idea if he would still have to pay her maintenance if they live here? She would still have them every other weekend so, it obviously isn't something we would stop until we know it's happening but we can't afford the added expenses we would incur on top of paying her what we do.

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wheresthel1ght Mon 18-Sep-17 09:46:19

Sorry, I did use paragraphs but the app has deleted them

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Blossomdeary Mon 18-Sep-17 09:51:01

Changing residence over the nits seems a bit OTT - but if there are other issues, then it may be a way forward. It is very hard for children to feel like parcels, being shipped here and there; and it is important that a move is taken for sound reasons and in full consultation with the children themselves. In order to do this you need outside objective help and advice, so the children's views can be heard without undue influence from either side.

Hissy Mon 18-Sep-17 09:53:43

Would it be possible for them to come and live with you?

Social services do need to be contacted, they won't swoop in, but it needs to start going on record. this way if you are able to move DSD in with you, and if it went to court, you have documented evidence that there are issues that are not being addressed.

Has your DP spoken to the school about his concerns? The school will be an ally here too.

If they live with you, there is no need to pay maintenance to her. in fact, SHE would be liable to pay your DP, although it's potentially a hiding to nothing. You could certainly get the child benefit and potentially tax credits if you qualify.

I truly hope that your DSD can come and live with you and that she heals and recovers from this negect.

juneau Mon 18-Sep-17 10:00:03

She is neglecting her DC and I'm baffled as to why. Why on earth would anyone want their DC to be picked on at school for something that is actually pretty easy to sort out???? I mean yeah, it's gross and a bit of a PITA, but it's much MORE gross to have DC infested with insects and why the fuck would anyone want that? The mum must be a selfish, lazy cow of the highest order to simply not bother to treat her DC for nits.

YANBU to want the DC living with you. However, if they spend EOW with their mum and she doesn't wash their bedding and treat their soft toys and any other stuff on the bed they could be reinfected. You really, really her to be on side with this stuff. Does she understand how upset and traumatised her DD is? The poor toileting hygiene sounds like anxiety to me. Is the mum generally shouty and verbally abusive too? The lack of care about the nits sounds like the tip of an abusive home environment iceberg to me.

lunar1 Mon 18-Sep-17 10:00:54

You have had this problem a really long time if I'm remembering the right poster. I'd be very quiet about the maintenance if swapping residence, just until the status quo is that they live with you and are settled. It's the best thing that could happen for your step children by the sounds of it.

Short term keep paying the maintenance, she's less likely to fight them going, then in a few months when all is settled get your dh to put in his own claim.

juneau Mon 18-Sep-17 10:01:36

And I agree that SS need to be contacted. You need to start a conversation with them and get these behaviours logged. DC from abusive homes never want intervention, because they're concerned it will make things worse. You and your DP need to take charge and be proactive about this.


Whambarsarentasfizzyastheywere Mon 18-Sep-17 10:07:41

If you are treating the headlice properly every week when they come to you how is it getting bad enough that they are crawling over her face and causing so much distress? Are you sure you are treating them properly?

You don't need your dps permission to report to SS, you can, and if they are being neglected, you should, report. You can do it anonymously.

I think you have bigger things to worry about than maintinence, that can all be sorted if they move in with you.

user1493413286 Mon 18-Sep-17 11:22:39

I think you and your DP need to act for your children's best interests and be aware that even children who are suffering significant abuse will say they want to stay living with that parent due to the attachment. Sometimes the best thing for a child is not necessarily what they want but you have to do it anyway.
It seems like the nit issue is the tip of the iceberg as the mum isn't showing any consideration for their social development/relationships, their personal hygiene, their emotional health and development and an 11 year old with toileting issues that aren't health related is massively worrying.
Your partner doesn't have to pay maintenance if the children are living with you and for harmony sake I wouldn't pursue maintenance from the mum at the moment. Your partner should start claiming child benefit for the children though.
I don't see the point in contacting social services; they will just say that the father needs to act to safeguard his children.
I would suggest you take them to the GP though as they can actually provide help with the toileting issue and the issue with the nits can be recorded. If you're keen to make a record of it that is better than a call to social services as anyone can call them saying anything but if a GP has formally made a record of what they've seen on a child no one can say it's made up.

swingofthings Mon 18-Sep-17 12:02:54

Kids have said be their preference is to stay living with mum if she starts treating them properly and dealing with the nits rather than bitching about it but dsd has asked if she can come and live here if her mum refuses because she is fed up of scratching and being picked on.
I'm confused why you are planning a change in residency and maintenance when your dsd has said she would prefer to stay with her mum, she just need the issue of the nits sorted.

I've been there, mum of a dd whose hair was desperately resistant to any treatment. I tried everything, every treatment in the book, doing it every week for weeks and still the buggers always came back. I even sought advice from an hair expert and their views was that some children (usually girls) have the type of hair that makes it very difficult to manage, like my dd. She has tons of layers of hair which in addition is extremely thick. The two together mean that getting rid of all the eggs is almost impossible. It became a vicious circle because if I didn't stop the weekly treatment after 4 weeks in a row, her scalp got irritated from them.

Like you, her SM blamed me, was shouting allowed that I was treating her hair and got so wounded up about it, dd went along with everything she said so not to upset her. After years of stress with it, it just stopped all on its own when she was about 12, probably as others stopped having them and passing them on.

This was 5 years ago and the funny thing is that it's now her half sister (SM's daughter) who is having problems (so I blame their father for their thick hair!!) and struggling to get rid of them and its DD who is tasked to do her shampoo over the week-end. Oh the irony!!

If your dsd's mum really not doing what she should, then how about teaching your DD to do so. She is 11, old enough now to come her hair on her own. You could spend time teaching her how to do properly, and texting her (if she's got a phone) reminding her to do it at home, instead of planning how you are going to go about changing her residence.

PS: I ended up calling SS myself when I was threatened to be reported for the same problem. When I told them, they laughed out loud and said that if they had to get involved with all the children who had resistant nits, they would need to increase their workforce by 10!

wheresthel1ght Mon 18-Sep-17 14:08:41

Wham because we only get them once a fortnight at the moment because she is playing silly buggers over contact as she refuses to let them walk home from school. Honestly as the ppl above mentioned there are lots more disses and thus has been going on and off for years.

Dsd is fed up. She is sick of being teased, fed up of scratching etc. She needs us to act because conversation and passing stuff on to their mum and teaching them to comb through etc doesn't seem to work. We have to move on from arguing about it, it's getting us no where.

The maintenance was more a curiosity for me. Planning finances and looking at how stuff would work.

to the poster who says would it be OK for them to move in with us, God yes. They are great kids in spite of her. We get on great and they love being here... Mainly according to dsd because my food is better...

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HeebieJeebies456 Mon 18-Sep-17 15:10:12

This has been going on a long time, OP.
I remember your other threads.

The last 2 weekends she has been with us she has been in tears as I have combed her hair. Her scalp is littered in scabs as is her neck, it is hurting her because if eggs etc

Personally - i think both you and your other half are enabling the mother to get away with her abusive and neglectful behaviour.
Their father can't be bothered to go to court to either apply for residency or even get contact time formalised.
He's refusing to involve social services - why? Nothing he is doing is helping his kids.
The only reason they're getting treated at yours is because you are the driving force behind it - their dad seems happy for you to take responsibility only when it suits him.
How is it that their school teachers have not picked up on the seriousness of this and involved SS themselves?

You don't need anyone's permission to ring social services and report what's going on.
Just pick up the phone and do it!

Hissy Mon 18-Sep-17 15:35:35

It sounds like DSD wants someone to make the decision for her.

Let's be clear on this, NOBODY ever wants to admit to themselves that their kids are being abused by their own parent, EVERYONE will want the iffy parent to sort themselves out without the Big Guns getting involved.

That poor child will WANT her own mother to step up, because on some level it will mean that DSD IS important and loved.

The minute she says, I want to go and live somewhere else is when she accepts that her mother doesn't love her, that she is unlovable.

The other matter of DP taking his child off her own mother.. Nobody makes that kind of move willingly. I think that everyone is in denial, not that they are not bothered.

there has to be a line drawn somewhere, and DSD needs to feel that she has that support from her dad and from you to make the move. If your DSD makes the move, she herself is rejecting the one relationship she is desperate to have, but the one she won't ever have.

By the sounds of it your DP has said something along the lines of 'she'll be moving in with us at next access weekend if things are still the same'

Things ARE going to be the same. Prepare for her to move to you and take the decision out of her hands

swingofthings Mon 18-Sep-17 16:47:51

Dsd is fed up. She is sick of being teased, fed up of scratching etc
So teach her how to manage it. She is 11, not 5. At 11, she should be able to comb her hair on her own and could even learn to do the shampooing. Buy her the product to take home and get her to call you so you can guide her as to how to do it. That would be the best way to deal with it for the benefit of your sd rather than talking about contacting SS and changing residency when she clearly indicated that is not what she wants.

Ilovetolurk Mon 18-Sep-17 20:01:05

Just practically speaking and I know its not ideal but there are treatments that can be left on overnight washed out and no combing required

Yes there would still be a head full of dead lice but you could comb these every fortnight

The difficulty will be washing and replacing bedding etc could you send her back with some cheap bedding to change the bed with

wheresthel1ght Mon 18-Sep-17 20:32:14

Swing. - I have. But her mum confiscated everything! I have spent a fortune on the treatment stuff and prevention stuff and sending it home.

She is 11, yes. But she is infantalised by her mum, she has very long thick hair, she tries her best but she is still very young and cannot manage it well enough. She is already anxious enough about stuff to the point she is having toilet issues, how exactly will bullying her into doing the treatments herself help? I actually think it will harm her already fragile state.

To the point who said dp is in denial, yes absolutely that has been the issue. No one wants to believe that the person they loved for over 20 tears and had kids with could be that crap. Pushing the issue too hard would have mostly likely have caused more problems. He needed to come to this on his own.

I have protected those kids as best I can, and dp does do the treatments when he is home but he works nights so jot always possible. Plus, let's be honest, what 11 year old girl wants to talk about personal issues with their dad?!

The primary school were aware as my hv went to them on my behalf in confidence, but she refused to do anything, convinced them we were being vindictive etc and s hoolie bought it or at least decided they weren't getting involved.

High school haven't said anything to us. But the dsd has only been there 2 weeks so they may not have noticed.

We will involve the school if we need to, but the kids adore their mum and their dad and we are reluctant to make any move without having the ability in years to come to say we did everything to make sure this wasn't the outcome. It might seem stupid and niave and maybe it is. But I guess unless you have been in that situation you don't know how you would act

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Hissy Mon 18-Sep-17 21:40:32

I have enormous sympathy for you all, this is a horrendous experience for you all.

Dp does need to shake off the denial and face up to what is happening

I totally get it re the dsd, she's 11, like my dc, there's no possibility of my dc managing hair etc, much less treatments

Wtf that woman is doing confiscating the stuff I don't know

I've heard that using conditioner and a nit comb is good, perhaps if she tried that? The mother wouldn't spot anything?

I think you have to help her leave.

wheresthel1ght Mon 18-Sep-17 22:17:34

Hissy, thank you. Yes that is currently what dsd is doing but then she gets whinged at for being in the bathroom for too long and again, she struggles to do it thoroughly enough.

We are managing the process of removing the kids but rushing into it has potential to do more damage to them and frankly they are the priority.

The neglect is minor in the grand scheme if things and certainly not something most people would notice from surface glances. It isn't enough to do significant harm to the kids hence why we have tried to manage things as best we can and support their dm. Whatever her reasons are she thinks she is doing the right thing.

Believe me, dp is no longer in denial. When I rang him at work the weekend he was livid. It was his suggestion about them coming to us, albeit I have been saying it for months.

The kids are close to. Their step sisters who live with them too and are reluctant to leave their friends. This is last chance saloon however, if they are still riddled next time then that will be the end of all negotiations and they kids will remain here for the foreseeable. She is fully aware and according to dp did very little in terms of countering him on it which is very unusual.

I understand that they are bastards to get rid of, it took me 2 hours of combing dsds hair to get Ms top pulling more out at the weekend, If she allows contact on Wednesday I will condition and comb it again and pray that her mum actually steps up and treats them at the weekend. Part of me hopes for their sake that she does, we don't want to rip their family apart or cause them pain and heart ache but if she doesn't, then we won't hesitate to move them here. It is beyond the point of endless chances. Dsd especially is suffering and it now has to stop.

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Autumnskiesarelovely Tue 19-Sep-17 00:30:57

Could you have them for an extra night every week, so see them on a weekly basis? Failing that have them to dinner each week at least! Then you could take charge of health and hygiene more regularly. They could each have baths, pampering etc and de nitting. Every week is enough to break the cycle, but I'd expect to keep this up for weeks maybe months as it's so easy to get reinfected. If you catch them though in a week you stop the infestation. Logging this with the GP is a good idea, plus toileting issues.

But if you've serious concerns about neglect contact SS too. But get proactive yourself by gradually stepping up contact. Don't bring up maintenance or threaten to reduce it do that it's not blocked for that reason.

Autumnskiesarelovely Tue 19-Sep-17 00:33:04

P.s. I wouldn't get the girls to comb their hair, it takes a real technique to do it thoroughly. I'd do it 3 x over each time with loads and loads of conditioner.

swingofthings Tue 19-Sep-17 06:12:56

Swing. - I have. But her mum confiscated everything! I have spent a fortune on the treatment stuff and prevention stuff and sending it home
Obviously I don't know this person, but the way you describe her doesn't make it sound very real. Is it your sd who says that it's her mum who confiscate treatment? It's one thing to not be bothered it's quite another to be wicked and I would think if her mum was so nasty, she would beg to move with you.

I can't help but wonder if there is a bit of the 'we'll blame mum for everything' because it's convenient and dsd is going with it because it gives her extra attention.

This is last chance saloon however, if they are still riddled next time then that will be the end of all negotiations and they kids will remain here for the foreseeable. She is fully aware and according to dp did very little in terms of countering him on it which is very unusual.
She's probably despairing like I did. And do you mean you will keep dss against his will too even though he doesn't have issue with them? How will you explain this to the judge?

wheresthel1ght Tue 19-Sep-17 08:05:14

Swing I assure you it is not made up. What would I have to gain exactly? And their mum goes through their bag as they walk through the door and removes everything she doesn't see a need for. I have watched it as has dp and have challenged it and we get the "my house my rules" trotted out.

Dss has them too but as his hair is shorter his are easier to get rid of but she doesn't even comb him or encourage him to do it himself. So yes we will remove both children. Both kids are aware, dss isn't overtly bothered as long as his PC comes too.

The people pleasing is done for their mum, they are very vocal here about wants etc and they are encouraged to be.

I am not blaming her for the fun of it, she is not dispairing because she refuses to acknowledge there is a problem. She told me directly that her hairdresser told her there is no point treating them for nits cos they just keep getting them and nothing works so leave them and they will grow out of it. Her hairdresser is shite, butchers dsds hair and is an old family friend. We have taken that out of her control and dsd and dss now visit proper barbers/salons for a proper job when with us.

To the poster asking about additional contact, we should have them on a Tuesday and Wednesday also. But she has stopped dss coming on a Tuesday and refuses to let dsd stay over. She refused everything but eow and the holiday we had booked over the summer, so from dropping them home after our holiday we didn't see them for nearly 3 weeks due to her being away over their contact weekend.

I stongly suspect that their step sisters also have them and they are just being passed around as they were clear when they went back to her after our holiday as I had treated them several times over the fortnight and combed daily. There were no live ones at all. She was told, reminded by text that they needed treating on x day and she refused.

The only option left is to remove the kids even if just fir the short term.

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Autumnskiesarelovely Tue 19-Sep-17 16:07:42

You should still be able to keep the nits right down if you do the comb method plus conditioner, every single time you see them. Even every 2 weeks. If you do it yourself, and every time they come they may have the odd early reinfestation, but never bad enough to be all over them. I'd never miss a time. I did my kids hair for a year every 2-3 weeks just to make sure they never came back. As I was sick of reinfestations and not spotting them early enough. It worked.

swingofthings Tue 19-Sep-17 17:07:01

To the poster asking about additional contact, we should have them on a Tuesday and Wednesday also. But she has stopped dss coming on a Tuesday and refuses to let dsd stay over.

Are you saying that your dsd comes Tuesday and Wednesday just don't stay overnight?Then surely that should is plenty of time to manage the problem at your home?

If I misunderstood and you are saying that you SHOULD have them, ie. this is what was agreed before, then surely the easiest thing to do is have them again on these days or go back to court to ask for these to be reinstated rather than planning full residency.

wheresthel1ght Tue 19-Sep-17 17:51:50

No swing, I am saying she is meant to. Come and stay but her mum has refused since before the school hols so July and is currently refusing to allow them to stay and demands them back by 6. Which means that there just isn't time by the time they have walked home and I have cooked tea and eaten. We barely manage to get them home on time.

It is utter madness. The refusal is because we have kicked up such a stink about the nits not being treated.

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