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Passports

(17 Posts)
lookluv Sat 20-Aug-16 15:04:40

Anyone know what the rules, law states about passports.

ie, who looks after them
how long you can take your DCs out of the country for before having to tell other parent.
do you have the right to know where they are going?

Many thanks

cannotlogin Sat 20-Aug-16 15:17:09

No rules on who holds passports but with resident parent would be reasonable.

Can't leave the country without the permission - advised in writing - of the other parent unlessyou have a Residence Order in which case you can leave for 28 days without permission of the other parent. The Order is the crucial - it is not enough to be the resident parent alone.

Seeing as you mainly need permission to go abroad, it is reasonable for the other parent to know where and for how long. I believe courts like to see evidence of return tickets. Why would you hide where you are going unless you are planning not returning?

swingofthings Sat 20-Aug-16 15:43:26

I have taken my kids out of the country over 25 times if more, mainly to France and Spain, but also further away. I haven't once been asked to permission from their father. I have a number of friends who are separated/divorced who also take their kids abroad and they never mentioned being asked for permission.

Two years ago, we even took a friend of my DD away to Spain. There were 6 of us, 5 different surnames, and not once was it questioned.

cannotlogin Sat 20-Aug-16 16:47:34

I agree you can travel without officials mentioning it, but the Law says what I have said. I am not sure why either parent (except where one is entirely absent), would consider it appropriate to be travelling abroad without the other parent knowing about it.

FallenStar3 Sat 20-Aug-16 19:35:12

My ex is getting an passport for DS but he will be giving me it back as I'm the resident parent. I think it's only right it stays with the main career. If your taking a child out aboard I think it's only right the other parent knows where you're going.

swingofthings Sat 20-Aug-16 21:14:26

There's a difference between informing the other parent and asking fire their consent. My ex has always known when we've been away but as a responsible parent I am as able to look after them abroad than at home and I have never given any indication that I could decide not to bring them back.

TheRealAdaLovelace Sat 20-Aug-16 21:17:02

I took the children away many many times without even realising that I needed to ask permission. Never got asked for this letter.
Mind you my ex didnt really care whether he saw them or not.

cannotlogin Sat 20-Aug-16 23:32:58

You should try having an ex with property abroad and additional family members abroad, swingofthings, it is a whole different ball game to know that seeing your children again could take months/years of legal wrangling if the ex decides to be difficult. It is even more difficult when you have no address or landline number. I wouldn't take my children to a war zone - but if you had an ex from such an area of the world it may well be a reality that for some people needs to be faced. Even taking a holiday currently in Turkey, Tunisia or Egypt, for example - traditionally popular tourist destinations - is cause for concern for some (including the Foreign Office).

I have never been asked by officials but my children were once asked if I was in fact their mum by Immigration Control here in the UK (different names). I know of one person who had to get the ex on the phone on entrance to Canada. Never heard of a problem in Europe, however.

And I am sure I don't need to remind you of forced marriages and cases such as the Muhsen sisters which are made far easier where parents are separated. We live in an increasingly smaller world where many of us have family and friends in exotic places, making the possibility of never seeing your child again a very real prospect. So yes, sometimes consent is absolutely necessary.

swingofthings Sun 21-Aug-16 06:54:58

I am not disputing what you are saying, but stating the reality, which is that in most likelihood, a parent can travel with their children without being asked any question and the fact that a parent would not ask permission doesn't mean that the other parent doesn't know where they are.

There are legal steps that can be taken if there is a concern that the children could be taken abroad and not returned. Thankfully, this affects only a very few minority of children from separate households travelling abroad with one parent.

lookluv Sun 21-Aug-16 13:54:22

Many thanks ladies - much of what I thought. i was asking for a friend, because I know what i do and did not want to give wrong advice.

I tell the EX and then do what I like, where I like, when I like. i keep the passports because I paid for them.

I have been asked on numerous occasions to prove the DCs are mine, since we split up. Prior to split never asked once! ( I did not change my surname when we married)

The change happened because his new DP, decided to anonymously inform immigration I was high risk for child abduction. Along with reporting me to the taxman, for benefit fraud and telling SS that she was suspicious about abuse. Effing awful 9 months getting all that sorted. The only one that still causes issues is the immigration one - we fly alot to see family all over the world.

I have been told by immigration officials that the law is - I must carry their birth certificates ( it is not, it is advice), I have been given the full right on catholic rant about unmarried mothers, the christian way of bringing up children, that in the muslim world I would not be tolerated , I am setting a bad example to my children, I am a bad mother, their father knows best etc etc etc - all by immigration officials.

Out of sheer bloody mindedness, I refuse to carry their birth certificate, because the lunacy of asking me as I bring them into the country, never as I leave, is ridiculous. Ex took them a few years ago away - did not get asked, because he has the same surname. yet they do not live with him, all his family live overseas and he was travelling with his new DP and her two kids , who have two different surnames and different from his and hers!!!

Got asked again in July - eldest DC now 9 - said to the man, - "why do you keep asking - you can see by the computer that we always go and out and come in with her, we have only been on holiday with Daddy 3 times".
Love him dearly!!

I always let EX know where we are going, the DCS speak to him most days and I have nothing to hide. I am not and have not been the Twunt in the whole debacle!

lookluv Sun 21-Aug-16 13:56:58

I do realise it would be less aggro for me if I did carry their birth certificates but............!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

swingofthings Sun 21-Aug-16 16:21:14

From what you say, the issue immigration has is not about whether you have consent from the father but whether you are indeed your kids' mother. That's different.

I've just realised that my kids had foreign passports when they were younger and on these, they were able to have a 'also known as' name, which was their father's name followed by mine, so this allowed to link them with me. When they got their British passports, they were over 12, which for some airline companies meant that they could have flown on their own anyway.

ilovesprouts Sun 21-Aug-16 16:26:47

I took my son to Spain a couple of weeks ago as me and ex are on birth certificate any of us could take him as both got parental rights.

ilovesprouts Sun 21-Aug-16 16:29:11

Only trouble I had was coming back to Manchester was how is this boy related to you as all three of us had different names.

Everytimeref Sun 21-Aug-16 20:26:40

Definitely getting asked more often about who is related to who, when we have travelled with the sdc. So although in the past travel might have been easy to travel without permission letter, it might not necessarily be so easy in future

Lunar1 Mon 22-Aug-16 08:18:23

We're there any kind of repercussions for your ex's partner after she told so many lies lookluv?

lookluv Mon 22-Aug-16 18:32:40

of course not- it is all anonymous of course.

However, I got akedd some very specific things by taxman, immigration etc, which she would have known ( ex family friend).

The SS stuff was very specific again and whilst the other person who could have done it was the EX - it is not his style.

she also let slip to a mutual friend that anonymous reporting was so much fun - it really could have only have been her. I may be maligning her but some people do not change and I knew she had shopped someone else in the past for benefit fraud.

Hey ho - now the DCs can speak, comprehend and answer politely, I will leave them to do the talking. You might aswell ask any parent to prove the DCS are theirs when you travel.

Was even more fun when I took the cousins on holiday - one USA, one Canadian passport, two SA and a British passport - the guy just looked at me and laughed!!! Said do I want to ask, I said two cousins, two siblings two mothers and two father involved. However, we could all travel on Aussie passports but realised half of them were out of date!

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