Preventing court ordered holiday

(13 Posts)
Fourormore Tue 15-Mar-16 14:17:53

Cross posted on Legal but all perspectives welcome!

If the RP prevents the DC from going on a court ordered holiday abroad, should the NRP stay behind in the UK and attempt to convince the RP to eventually hand over the DC so that the DC can see the NRP in the UK at least or should the NRP just go on holiday without the DC as planned. The NRP also has another two children with their new spouse and will be going on the holiday regardless but are perhaps a bit young to be as distressed as the DC that would be left behind.

Castasunder Tue 15-Mar-16 18:20:17

Is the holiday pending anytime soon? You can ask for it to be heard at court if it's a while away

Fourormore Tue 15-Mar-16 18:35:51

It's been heard already - the order says the RP has to make the children available to the NRP for the holiday. There's just a high chance of the RP breaching the order by disrupting the handover.
I wasn't sure whether the court would expect the NRP to stay behind to try and attempt further handovers at a later day that week while the rest of the NRP's family goes on holiday.

Castasunder Tue 15-Mar-16 19:07:35

Is it coming up soon? Can you submit another application or write to the judge?

Fourormore Tue 15-Mar-16 19:19:23

I don't see what the judge could do other than say "it's already been ordered"?

Castasunder Tue 15-Mar-16 21:12:03

Well I'm thinking NRP could be warned? It also lets the judge know they intend to frustrate the holiday?

Ouriana Tue 15-Mar-16 23:18:39

I would say the NRP should still take the other children away as planned. Are you the NRP in this situation?

anklebitersmum Wed 16-Mar-16 02:55:57

How old is the DC? We found that it's harder for awkward parents to be poisonous in public.

By which I mean that we, when DSS was old enough, would say "we are coming on X date at Y time, and we're all going to do Z make sure you're all packed and good to go-I'm sure Mum'll help"

If it's court ordered can you ask for a discrete police presence on the basis that you suspect there will be issues? not ideal I know

I'd say the NRP should go and collect as arranged (ideally a day or so before any travelling has to occur and with back up if possible). If the RP refuses to allow contact then it's off to court on an emergency basis and then follow the family. Failing emergency court I'd take the trip without the DC and sort legally on my return and probably seethe internally for the whole time

Had this sort of rubbish and more-paid for supervised flights not being made, RP being out at pick up times should have seen the face when we emerged from our vantage point when she finally turned up 6hrs late the works.

It's horrible behaviour but DC's grow up and they do see for themselves as they get older. Doing everything you can to be there sometimes has to be enough-especially when there are siblings (be they half, full or step) involved.

Fourormore Wed 16-Mar-16 07:51:57

They're infant school age. Sorry, trying not to identify myself.
The handover is already supervised but that won't stop the RP either not turning up in the first place or not handing them to the supervisor.
After years of this dragging on, NRP doesn't have either cash or access to credit or anyone to borrow the £215 it would cost to apply for enforcement. Such a mess.

Ouriana Wed 16-Mar-16 09:01:59

Truly awful situation but if the worst happens and the children arent handed over I still think the NRP should take the other dc on holiday.
Its cruel on the other children to miss out on having a parent on holiday because of the ex's games and hardly fair on the parent thats left taking the children away alone!
Good luck and I hope you get a stress free holiday!

PrettyBrightFireflies Wed 16-Mar-16 10:12:09

After years of this dragging on, NRP doesn't have either cash or access to credit or anyone to borrow the £215 it would cost to apply for enforcement. Such a mess.

Both Woodall and Warshak advise that in some cases, the NRP cannot "do" anything other than wait - and this seems like one of those times.

Yes, if the NRP had access to unlimited funds, then a breach of a court order could be enforced through court, but it's still questionable whether that is best for the DCs. Missing out on a holiday may be the "least worse" option for them when the alternative is continued and escalating conflict between parents.

And if funds are restricted, then arguably they need to be preserved for things that are life changing for the DCs. While a holiday with the NRP is a nice to have, it may well be that in a years time, the parents disagree about medical care or education and the NRP limited funds available are better kept in case of those type of circumstances.

The NRP has done all they need to in order to maximise the chance of the DCs having a holiday. If the RP breaches the order, there is no expectation on the NRP to "do" anything. Making the DCs available
"late" in this situation is as much of a breach as not making them available at all.

Bluelilies Wed 16-Mar-16 11:24:39

Any chance of getting the contact to start a day or two before flights are booked (but not telling the RP that there's any leyway) to give time to sort out a no-show without causing collapse of the holiday?

I don't think a court could "expect" an NRP not to go on holiday because contact has been withheld - as long as he's made all reasonable efforts to collect the child, including maybe being prepared for some sort of delay for which an excuse could be claimed. But in terms of who you upset most by going without the child or not going, that's more difficult.

Fourormore Wed 16-Mar-16 12:04:31

Thank up PBF - that's the clarity I need right now.

Blue - the handover is the day before the holiday but it's a weekend so there'd be no time for an emergency hearing. The NRP could attempt a second handover the second day though, thinking about it.

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