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false allegations - dp considering giving up on his dc

(12 Posts)
AlmondAmy Wed 29-Jul-15 22:39:26

Dsc are 8&9, mum has never been supportive of contact. They have a contact order which she's breached numerous times. She demands to speak to dsc twice daily and will repeatedly ask them if they're ok or if she should come and take them home.

A couple of months ago, one of the dsc did something which endangered our other dcs life. Dp barely reprimanded them but dsc rang mum, demanded to be collected and said dp had shouted and screamed at her for an hour. They went home today and dsd has apparently told her mum that dp sat on her, shouted in her face and held her neck and mouth so she couldn't scream or shout. No such thing happened - there was no fall out whatsoever.

Mum rang dp and said he'll have to take her back to court if he wants to see them again because he's abusing them. Both children said these (and other) things have happened both to mum and to dp on the phone.

Where do we go from here? If we pay to return to court and both dc tell cafcass this is true, surely contact will remain stopped? But if we don't, it looks like an admission of guilt and dp loses his kids. Has anyone been in a similar situation and could advise?

MizK Wed 29-Jul-15 22:47:11

Ok, firstly this sounds horrible for you and your DP.

I think that he must go back to court.... I don't know how they work but surely they will try to get to the bottom of what happened and why the DC are making up stories.

I don't blame the mother - what can she do other than believe what her DC are saying? But she needs to know that they are lying so she can figure out what's making them do so.

It sounds like a total mess, but no matter how hurtful their behaviour is, they are still only very young and don't deserve to be given up on, no matter what they do. They are his children. How can any parent justify cutting off their children, especially given that they seem to be pretty confused and lashing out.

I hope it works out somehow.

AlmondAmy Wed 29-Jul-15 22:55:01

He works with children so an allegation like this could affect his career. We suspect their mum has planted the idea, unfortunately. A couple of years ago she accused him of being a paedophile for washing their daughters bottom. If they aren't bought enough stuff then they don't want to come, they know their mum could get in trouble for breaching the court order if they refuse to come so an allegation like this gives her a worthy excuse to stop contact.

thehook Thu 30-Jul-15 06:41:56

I think he should make the first move to go back to court and actually I think he has grounds to make an application for transfer of residency based on parental alienation. Your DP's ex isn't unable to separate the conflict she has with your DP from the needs of their children.

I assume the court would order a finding of fact hearing and supervised contact in the interim which is better than nothing I think. Ultimately your DP needs more, not less contact in order to protect his children. I would like to think the court would recognise this. They are supposed to take Parental Alienation seriously.

At 8 & 9 they shouldn't really be aware of the court order or the consequences of Mum breaching it unless there' a good excuse. I presume Mum has filled them on this? I doubt that would be seen in a good light either.

IAmNotDarling Thu 30-Jul-15 06:50:10

My brother ceased all contact with his children because of a similar situation.

We're NC with him, but the DCs were completely brainwashed by their unhinged mother who was bitter about him moving on with a new DP.

I agree with the advice to get to the bottom of it and potentially get residency. The courts have seen this all the time, it's common and those poor girls have no idea what they are doing.

FluffyBumOnTheRun Thu 30-Jul-15 07:06:39

Go to court, I sure the dc don't realise the seriousness of what they're saying but they soon will if they have to go through the court system and get questioned.

It so sad to see what some mums will put their kids through, this is a huge allegation and I can't help but think that surely she must know deep down this isn't right

Bellemere Thu 30-Jul-15 11:19:29

Has she gone to the police? Has she gone to social services?

thepurplehen Thu 30-Jul-15 13:07:08

My DP went through all this. He took her to court despite her begging him not to put the children through it but refusing him contact for no reason at all. The kids were questioned and the result was that they didn't believe her allegations, although the process was very disorganised.

Going to court was the best thing he could have done, but I think this was partly because she backed down quite a lot and started allowing limited contact once he started proceedings (I suspect she thought it might make him change his mind).

Contact has been consistent since and despite her self representing and trying to bring things up in court which weren't allowed - he won what he wanted and the kids are happy and settled, as are we, without the constant drama and threats.

However, if the ex is obstructive and oppositional to authority, you may have a different outcome, but money permitting, I certainly think it is worth doing, so you can say to yourselves (and the children) that you did all you could.

Bellemere Thu 30-Jul-15 15:40:49

My experience is similar to purplehen's without the ex backing down. She's remained as stubborn as ever, coming up with the most ridiculous reasons why contact should not go ahead. The judge has finally seen through her, CAFCASS saw through her months ago. I wouldn't worry that much - they are trained to spot false allegations and coaching.

springalong Fri 31-Jul-15 00:36:58

The most worrying thing in Ops post is this sentence "one of the dsc did something which endangered our other dcs life. Dp barely reprimanded them". So DP doesn't seem able to parent appropriately, yet other posters are straight off with accusations of parental alienation about the ex who isn't able here to defend herself. If that were my child I would be very concerned about why they had acted that way, if that child then acted out of their normal behaviour, and then the other parent and their partner tried to blame me I would feel strongly that contact was damaging.

I would politely suggest OP that you and your DP look at what is happening in your own home first. There is support available to help families. I personally found HomeFirst very helpful whereas Family Action were not.

PeruvianFoodLover Fri 31-Jul-15 07:34:47

springalong it's almost impossible for a NRP to "parent appropriately" when the RP openly undermines them, and disregards court orders.

If it was an isolated incident, where the RP was supportive of contact and the NRP role, I'd agree with you - but the OP is clear that there have been repeated breaches of a contact order and evidence that the RP is, as a court would say, interfering with the DCs time with their NRP. In that situation, the RP can't parent - all they can do is act within the boundaries the RP puts in place. any transgression on the part of the NRP, and contact is withheld, as is apparent in the OP.

My experience of family court in this situation was not as positive as PP - despite acknowledging that the DCs were under the influence of their mum, who was described as "implacably hostile" to contact, the courts opinion was that the damage done through continued hostilities between parents if a contact order was made against the RP wishes would be greater than the long term damage done through the "loss" of the NRparent. When and where contact takes place is now directed by the DCs mum, with a court order for the NRP to be available when the DC "wants" to see him.

OP there comes a time for every parent in this situation where enough is enough. The financial and emotional toll is enormous. If and when your DP has reached that point, then he will need a great deal of support to help him come to terms with it. Have you been in contact with The Centre for Separated Families? They have had some success in this area. Karen Woodall wrote a recent blog about allegations by DCs in circumstances like this - and how DCs come to genuinely believe that what they have said is true, despite, in many cases, medical evidence that prove that it could not have happened.

Madmum24 Mon 03-Aug-15 14:06:06

Please, please do not cease contact with the children because of this. They are the victims here (although it might not seem that way!) As a child I was in between two warring parents (and their partners) and I am ashamed to say it now but sometimes the only way to get their full attention was to make an allegation about the other parent. Very sad indeed, but they are children.

Definitely go down the court route. A family member of mine is going through similar, although the allegations are always of sexual abuse. They have to be investigated time and time again and contact is always severely disrupted. At a recent court hearing it was revealed that the children are being "groomed" by their mother into making allegations, and that this constitutes emotional abuse. The mother has been told that if there is one more allegation made then her position as a resident parent will be in serious jeopardy. The reports always praise the father for maintaining contact despite very turbulent circumstances.

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