What a horrible bitch :(

[mumtobealloveragain]

Sorry, I have to have a rant.

We have my two DSC 50:50. We pay half of everything and sometimes all of the cost of a school trip or activity/club for them when she moans she can't afford it!

Their mum has just put a claim in via CSA for child maintenance from DP. She's lied saying we only have them 2 days a week, and she forgot to mention the other children living in our house! We've just had a baby and we really we don't have the money to pay her!

He's called her and she refuses to discuss it. We have the Child Benefit for my other DSS so he now has to make an application via CSA for maintenance for him from her, but we will get loads less as he's not willing to lie and she works less and earns less than him. The lies she told are easily disapproved (the residency order shows we have 50:50 not two days a week) and my children's birth certs prove they exist but I'm absolutely livid!

[BeverlyMoss]

She is trying to work the system, she knows the limits and levels etc, number of days considered as resident parent.

Dispute her claim with the true evidence, what she is effectively doing is committing benefit fraud.

Good luck.

[mumtobealloveragain]

Great minds think alike! My DP has explained she's lied and we can easily prove it (stupid lie to tell really when a current Residency Order clearly shows it to be a lie) and what action is taking due to her lies- the answer no action at all as according to them it's not benefit fraud to lie to the CSA as it's not a benefit!

[Kaluki]

So if its ok for her to lie then surely its ok for your DH to refuse to pay. Then it will be investigated and he can provide proof.
What a horrible thing to do.

[BrandybuckCurdlesnoot]

Mumtobe - I'm not sure if you're aware but your partner will be liable from the date the CSA first contacted him and they will backdate it and ask for it all to be paid upfront, so make sure you work the calculation out online and put the money aside from now.

[mumtobealloveragain]

Kaluki. They've asked him to start to pay the higher (huge) amount based on us only having the DSC "103" nights per year and not counting the other 5! Children we have living with us. They've said we can then appeal, show out evidence and any overpayment will be recalculated. In the meantime we would be paying over £300 a month to her for a child that lives with us 50:50. We can't afford it.

[mumtobealloveragain]

Thanks Brandy. We are both so bloody upset. I work my arse off (at home not actual work work albeit) to provide for those children, make them happy, take them nice places, ensure they have all their needs met and all the other things their mum often doesn't do. Now my children (and them) will suffer cause sure as hell that money won't go on them!

[BrandybuckCurdlesnoot]

That is utterly ridiculous. I would complain. Contact your local MP to write a letter to them on your behalf stating how unreasonable that is and your partner has a right to have a fair, correct assessment made following the rules. If it delays the first payment of maintenance paid to the ex, that is not your partner's fault.

Has your partner applied for maintenance yet for the child he claims child benefit for? Get it done asap.

[BrandybuckCurdlesnoot]

And if they insist on your paying the full amount, I would be sorely tempted to apply for the child maintenance for his son with no mention of any overnights or any other children either. See if they apply the same rule to the ex. (Should be the bigger person, but she is being just plain spiteful.)

[FeelingTheFire]

Not sure if it'll be of any help but try CAB for advice too Mumtobe. Is there a reason she's gone to CSA all of a sudden?

[FeelingTheFire]

Just re-read your post, if you have proof of 50:50 then surely that would be enough for the CSA??

[purpleroses]

It should fall to about half of that once they've counted in the children who live with you - including the other DSC that you claim CB for, and corrected the discount for having DSC 3+ nights a week. So may end up not disimilar to what she has to pay you - assuming she doesn't have any other children in her household.

[mumtobealloveragain]

Well he's been on the phone all morning! Lol. He's managed to persuade them that's it an obvious lie about 103 nights a year and that we have 5 other kids here by faxing someone the residency order and giving our kids CB reference. They didn't want to hear it though and he's spoken to at least 5/6 different people! Appeals take months so we'd have been paying a fortune! At least that's one thing.

He has now made an application for child maintenance for you get DSC (who we have he Child Benefit for) although it won't be as much as their mum earns less than DP.

We have no idea why. She's got nothing to complain about, we just paid for this terms football coaching for both children- the whole lot as she can't afford it but wants them to go. We pay for everything here, shoes coats uniforms clothes etc and often pay more than half for other costs like school trips.

She has a lower household income than us and she hates it. Is always saying how DP earns more so she should have both CB awards. He earns more as I don't work and we have 6 kids between us in total! We manage but not well off. Jealousy I think. We're happy and she's not. Oh and she first made the claim the day after our baby was born- coincidence perhaps!

[Petal02]

So am I right in thinking that the CSA will pursue a man for payment without checking the facts/his side of the story? So theoretically the ex could state she has 6 children by the OP's husband - and the CSA would start charging accordingly, and wouldn't reduce the amount til he's proven it's all rubbish??

[purpleroses]

FeelingtheFire - CSA is still payable even when you have 50-50. It's just reduced by 50%.

If one of you has the child benefit for each of two children - like the OP does - then you each have to pay each other. Net effect is that the higher earning parent pays a bit towards the lower earner, even though both do identical amounts of parenting and providing for their children.

[purpleroses]

Not coincidence at all I would say - she's feeling jealous of the new baby, and possibly that it's not fair for your DP to have more children when he's not doing enough (in her eyes) to support the ones he's got.

Glad you managed to get the CSA to accept the residency and other children though.

[purpleroses]

Petal - I presume you need to prove the things you could be reasonbly expected to have proof of - eg the existance of your own children. They have to take your word for other things though - such as the number of children in your ex's household because you couldn't really be expected to prove that could you? Same goes for number of overnights - many people don't have court orders, so the RP's word has to go unless someone else proves otherwise. Luckly the OP's DP has a court order so he can do that.

[FeelingTheFire]

Purple: Yeah, I know that. I just wondered if she had the residency order as proof sent to CSA (as mum is lying and saying that they are only there 2 days) that it would help with the situation :)

[FrogStarandRoses]

This could work out for the best in the long run.

Each household will be financially responsible for one of the DCs - so decisions about school trips, uniform etc fall to the household with responsibility.
As there has been an imbalance (and understandable resentment) over the sharing of financial responsibility, dividing it in this way, where each household takes sole financial responsibility for one (of the OPs DSC).

I fully understand that it could result in one DC having a significantly higher standard of living than the other - but that might be easier on them than the constant hostility and tension.

My DD is 50:50, I receive CM and am responsible for everything DD needs - her Dad and I agreed to this after months of disagreement and resentment over costs and finances. It works well for us.

[mumtobealloveragain]

Petal/Purpleroses. The RP can't lie about the number of children or that they are in receipt of the Child Benefit (CSA system is linked with HMRC apparently) but the RP can lie about how many nights a year on average the NRP has the child. It's the NRP's job to prove it's incorrect. Usually by paying the higher amount until they appeal and that takes months. If they have no evidence and it's NRP's word against RP's word then they take RP's word as correct.

[mumtobealloveragain]

Frogs- Do you mean by "understandable resentment" you can understand why DSC mother resents the fact we have a higher household income than hers and feels we should pay more than half towards the cost? We often do but the general agreement is they each pay for everything the child needs at their own homes and extras are agreed and split cost 50/50. Like I said we often pay more though.

I can see how it works in your situation, you get CB so you pay for the majority of your daughter's costs. The problem is, DSC's mum won't pay for things for him to have here, she won't send him with school uniform or shoes etc, we will still have to pay for everything here. That's not a problem usually of course but it is when we are also paying her via CSA

[FrogStarandRoses]

No, I mean you understandably resent the fact that she isn't fulfilling her side of the arrangement to pay 50:50 - it's not working, so change it!

Why do you need to pay out for uniform/shoes etc? Handover through school and she'll already be wearing it! A couple of spare blouses/polo tops, and you're done! You choose whether to pay for school trips for the DC that you get CB/CM for, and your DH ex chooses whether to pay for the trips for the DC that she is financially responsible for.

[mumtobealloveragain]

I see. Unfortunately often handover isn't via school, so they often come here after school or weekends. We have to have uniform which includes school shoes, logo's jumpers, polis, school bags plus full PE kits which are over £40 per child (indoor and outdoor all must be logo'd). Plus clothes whilst they live here. Just wouldn't work unfortunately.

[purpleroses]

That does sound an expensive way to bring up kids - with two versions of everything.

Can't the PE kits live at school rather than having to be bought twice over once for each house?

Not sure what your weekly routine is but might be worth giving some thought to whether there's a way to cut down everyone's costs by better arrangements for getting the DC's clothing to and from the right houses. My DCs and DSC all come and go between houses at various times, but we do seem to manage to get it so that most things move with them. Pyjamas, toothbrushes and a few bits and pieces of (mostly secondhand) clothing, etc are about all that you really need duplicates of.

Or is it that both parents buy everything as a way of demonstrating that they're "in charge"?

[FrogStarandRoses]

Fair enough - if the court order means you can't change the way in which the DCs transition between homes then you'll have to work within it.

Whatever happens, you wont change your DSC behaviour only she can do that.
Perhaps your DH could suggest mediation if his ex isn't prepared to discuss it like a grown up ?

Alternatively, if he doesn't want to come face to face with her either, then a business-like email, setting out what he is, and is no longer, prepared to pay out for now that she has applied for maintenance will at least make his position clear.

The reality is that all the while their Mum is behaving like this, your DSC will miss out on things you want them to do unless you cover for her by paying out for school trips etc. You and your DH need to choose if you are prepared to sacrifice the financial security of your other DCs in order to do so.
You DH will need to develop a thick skin, deaf ear and confidence in his own parenting in order to change things.

[FrogStarandRoses]

That is supposed to say

wont change your DSC mums behaviour !!!!!