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Division of money question

(89 Posts)
MadameLeBean Mon 23-Sep-13 15:12:27

DP does not pay anything towards my dd's childcare costs or school clubs etc, or clothes. I am fine with this, he is not her dad and her actual dad does not pay maintenance (I did start a thread about whether to go to the CSA but that's a whole issue in ideals) so why should DP have to pay anything.

So far so good. It worked because I earn about 1/3 more than my DP and I spend that "extra" on childcare clothes etc for dd. So we have a joint account for bills to which we contribute equally and about equal spending money (not very much!).

However he has got a new job offer which means he will be making the same money as me - so the huge amount of money I spend on childcare etc, he will have sloshing around "spare".

I have always been one to split things equally but I will not be able to contribute my half of anything more eg the cost of a cleaner. Wibu to ask him to pay for the cleaner as I have this huge overhead which he does not have and now we are on the same money? Should I ask him to pay a little bit towards dd's costs? I feel that would be wrong but on the other hand it feels unfair that he will have loads of spare cash while I struggle to pay my half of the cleaner, can't afford to save a pension etc

nicknamegame Wed 25-Sep-13 11:08:30

Thanks for that basgetti- it feels to me that there is some serious misappropriation of the blame here.

China- Morally reprehensible? You cannot be serious! For one,( and I've already said this) I do not rely on my DP. I was a homeowner before I met him, have never ever claimed on benefits (but thank god the option would be there if I needed to) and the absence of my DP would not prompt me to start the CSA process. My ex pays £100. He used to pay £200. The loss of the £100 is something I've sucked up - and would continue to suck up if my DP left.

I do however stand by what I said in response to the OP, that my DP considers us a team, and because he earns more than me, we have a better standard of living because of him. I earn a decent salary however, and would still live a good enough life without him. If he considered me morally reprehensible because I don't want to go through the inevitable anguish that yet another legal battle would cause, I would actually end the relationship.

In fact, my DP paid for my 12k legal battle when my ex dragged me to court 3 times. Every single penny of it.

Is that morally reprehensible too?!

basgetti Wed 25-Sep-13 09:59:56

It is morally reprehensible for NRPs to fiddle their finances and refuse to support their DCs.

It is a bit arrogant to tell a poster they have 'nothing to lose' when they have clearly stated the emotional abuse and legal battles to which they have been subjected. Sometimes people need to be able to move on for the sake of their own sanity and if this means accepting less or no money then so be it. It is rare for a lone parent to be so wealthy that they can easily write off such money so I would assume the alternative had been pretty awful and give them some sympathy.

Put the blame where it belongs.

purpleroses Wed 25-Sep-13 09:22:04

I think the new system hasn't come in yet for most people. So no fees yet. Even if your ex is earning £5000 a year on the books you should still get £5 a week, which can pay for something useful (a club or something for the DC that you might not otherwise be able to afford)

ChinaCupsandSaucers Wed 25-Sep-13 09:21:53

My understanding of the new legislation was that parents were required to pay a fee to the CSA if they couldn't agree it between themselves. Have I got that wrong?

The new rules are being rolled out gradually; currently only new cases involving 4 or more DCs all with the same NRP and no additional DCs to consider are being assessed under the new rules. It'll take years for it to be rolled out to all new cases, never mind existing ones!

If you call the CSA, give them details of your ex, they will put the wheels in motion. Yes he might gloat and brag you won't get a penny, but ignore him!

With greater co-operation between the CSA and HMRC these days, and more willingness on the part of the CSA to make adjustments based on lifestyle, you've got nothing to lose, and your DCs have a great deal to gain.

I think it's the responsibility of every RP to keep up to date with systems and benefits that are designed to help them - its morally reprehensible, IMO, to rely on the state (or someone else) to support your DC because you choose not to find out about what help and support you are entitled to.

nicknamegame Wed 25-Sep-13 09:05:03

My understanding of the new legislation was that parents were required to pay a fee to the CSA if they couldn't agree it between themselves. Have I got that wrong?
Based on this thread, i asked ex last night whether he was still self employed, he informed me (in between a load of nasty agressive texts) that he had moved to being a limited company. This means I can now check company house, although having been with him for a long time and knowing his not very scrupulous business practices - he will not be providing the CSA with figures that make him look like anything other than a pauper.

MadameLeBean Tue 24-Sep-13 23:05:46

Ex is not self employed. I can see how that would make it harder to make a claim. My sympathies are with those of you who are having to deal with someone who can evade their responsibilities that way.

ChinaCupsandSaucers Tue 24-Sep-13 23:04:25

In fact, I would have to pay to launch the application, more insult to more injury.

Nope. You wouldn't, unless you have 4 or more DCs with your ex and have never opened a claim before.

I'm refering to the current CSA system in the UK - as is the OP. Which system are you subject to?

nicknamegame Tue 24-Sep-13 22:34:18

What Bighouse said, with bells on.

I was pretty much told there was NO POINT by the very CSA themselves.

He is abusive, he would spend thousands to see me not get a penny. He has already proved this by putting me through hell in court- and I mean hell. You're not actually listening when I say all this, preferring instead to believe I just can't be arsed. If my OP resented the £100 ex has stolen from my child, as you put it, I would frankly be questioning my relationship. I prefer to stay off the anti-depressants than face the backlash that I would get from exp. If you think that makes me a failure, I can live with that.

In fact, I would have to pay to launch the application, more insult to more injury.

thebighouse Tue 24-Sep-13 21:01:05

If her husband is self employed he will be declaring an income of around 5k a year. THAT will be what the CSA will use as the figure for maintenance.

Plus he will go to court and dispute the court order.

PLUS he will be fucking furious and controlling, from the sounds of it.

If I was your partner, I'd be understanding and proud that you'd escaped a bullying fuckwit.

ChinaCupsandSaucers Tue 24-Sep-13 20:55:38

I chose not to bother with an application after this 'chat'

And if I were your partner, I would resent you for that.

Applying for CSA help and getting nothing from your ex is very different from not bothering to apply, IMO.

If your DP is happy with the situation, then great - but I couldn't live with myself in either your or your DPs position, sorry.

thebighouse Tue 24-Sep-13 20:54:35

I'm afraid you are right. Self-employed/company accounts and he gets off Scott free. After all, he's only got 5k a year to live on!

nicknamegame Tue 24-Sep-13 19:25:00

I made an enquiry to the CSA a year ago about my situation. I explained that ex takes a lot more clients than he declares, therefore his books will not highlight any 'lies' that would be obvious to them. I also told them he had just bought a holiday home but put in his wife's name- they said they could not touch that and wait for it....he had the 'right to be believed' based on the tax returns etc that he would supply.

I chose not to bother with an application after this 'chat' and believe me, my ex had no trouble spending thousands taking me to court, only to end up with essentially what he had, yet won't support our child financially.

I dont believe the CSA are as effective as you think in all honesty.

thebighouse Tue 24-Sep-13 18:32:08

Iloveweetos: ex is self employed through his own company (sounds like op). Therefore he only has 5k earnings on 100k turnover.

He spent tens of thousands on solicitors and accountants. I gave up in the end.

We do have 50:50 childcare which he insisted on 'so I would never see a penny of his money'.

I gave up my career to raise my babies and I'm now financially shafted. That's the way the system works, it seems.

RinseAndRepeat Tue 24-Sep-13 18:08:56

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

ChinaCupsandSaucers Tue 24-Sep-13 17:37:55

rinse I can't remember anyone criticising you for not wanting to support your DP to pay your DPs ex maintenance while also supporting your DSC resident in your home?

I would be suggesting your DP sort it out though; it's no more fair on you to support your DSC mum in this way as it is for the OPs DP to support her DC. Fine if everything has been done to reduce the financial impact on the stepparent, but otherwise, likely to lead to resentment and frustration.

RinseAndRepeat Tue 24-Sep-13 17:28:32

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

ChinaCupsandSaucers Tue 24-Sep-13 15:33:53

What resource would I have, do you suggest China, when he is self employed and will ruthlessly lie to the CSA? I would be chasing a dead end at practical and emotional cost to my well being

I'm not sure how you think the CSA works, but if you call them and open a case - there is nothing more you need to do. No chasing, no stress, no hassle - just a phone call.

If he lies and dodges the system, then you've done what you can.

You seem to be refusing to pick up the phone because your ex is a deadbeat and avoids his responsibilities - which is exactly why the CSA are there and they are fairly good at extracting money from reluctant NRP, despite the bad press.

nicknamegame Tue 24-Sep-13 11:03:14

What resource would I have, do you suggest China, when he is self employed and will ruthlessly lie to the CSA? I would be chasing a dead end at practical and emotional cost to my well being. I maintain that it is my ex who is lacking responsibility, not me.

Agree with previous poster who said about rocking the boat. OP if you think you could stomach it, by all means pursue your ex, he has manipulated you to agree a deal that sees him shirk his financial commitments, but I know all too well what it can do to you to deal with someone this devious, so only you can decide. I think you definitely need to have a chat with your DP, especially if you are to be married. I wish you the best.

Tuckshop Tue 24-Sep-13 10:56:37

Yes, I would suggest having a really frank discussion with your dp and deciding between you what you are going to do. Hindsight is a wonderful thing and you did the best you could at the time.

I don't think it's off the wall for your dp to pay for things for your children. I always helped support dsd, in fact do so solely now she lives with me. I've accepted it and am generally at peace with it. Dsd is the second dd I never had. But I'd be lying if there were never times when it stuck in my throat that neither of her parents were supporting her.

I think it's reasonable to explore claiming maintenance but I do think, given the history, that a full discussion is needed. If you get ill again it'll be no good for anyone, and I can totally understand why you'd not want to rock the boat there.

MadameLeBean Tue 24-Sep-13 10:47:48

Thanks it was in Scotland although I live in England now. I am going to get legal advice. I currently meet 90% of costs to enable dd to see her dad and this is over £100 per month so a big chunk of his maintenance would go to pay for that anyway.

ChinaCupsandSaucers Tue 24-Sep-13 10:26:08

It may be the case that court orders only last a year but this was an agreement between us, written by our solicitors rather than the court ruling what should happen.

My understanding is that these 'agreements' are not legally enforceable in England and Wales at least - if you decide not to follow it anymore, then your ex's only recourse will be to ask a court for a legally binding decision.
Obviously, your decision to agree/sign when you did will be one aspect the court will consider, as will any costs your ex incurs to maintain contact with his DD - but a court can't overrule the CSA at the moment, that much I am almost certain of.

iloveweetos Tue 24-Sep-13 10:10:33

the bighouse sorry to pry but how did ExH have that agreed?
Sounds horrid

OP go to CSA! It may take time but CSA can do alot to help you. Your DP sounds nice, talk to him about how you feel re: luxuries.

MadameLeBean Tue 24-Sep-13 09:51:20

Thanks Pickture I am going to get legal advice to find out what my options are. It may be the case that court orders only last a year but this was an agreement between us, written by our solicitors rather than the court ruling what should happen.

MadameLeBean Tue 24-Sep-13 09:49:13

Yes china you are right they may have ruled differently. but I doubt it. The court acknowledged the current 60-40 split was no longer in best interest of dd and also stated that ex was unable to provide appropriate accommodation for dd; among other things.

But I can't know for sure and right now my best option is to get legal advice and take it from there.

Once that is determined I can come to an agreement with DP as you mentioned. I would like to pay half of our essentials and still have enough to get by wrt disposable income. He is not demanding that I pay half of extra things that only he can afford - he is not unreasonable! But if we make decision eg to get a cleaner then we can only do it if I can afford to pay half - or if he decides he wants to spend his money on providing that for our family if I cannot afford it.

Pickturethis Tue 24-Sep-13 09:47:37

Madame- no need to be paranoid, just trying to work out what happened.

I think you should go to the CSA. I didn't think you could be allowed to have an agreement to never pay child support.

I thought court orders for child maintenance lasted a year, then you could apply for CSA.

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