This is becoming more and more weird

[allnewtaketwo]

Some of you will be familiar with my situation. 2 DSSs - 16 and 13. According to a court order, that was put in place 10 years ago, DH sees them from 6pm Friday to 6pm Sunday (and one mid-week evening). He had to go to court as his ex was with-holding contact (she had left him btw, for another man).

She is extremely controlling and even to this day, is very difficult about access. DSSs are 'not allowed' to see DH outside of this strictly rostered access schedule. This has included the DSSs being really disappointed at 'not being allowed' to attend family events to which they were invited etc., for no reason whatsoever. DSS2 finds it odd that his mother is so awkward, but DSS1 apparently doesn't. He's one of those people who goes along with stuff without question. In effect I suppose a combination between his personality and her controlling behaviour have created a situation where she can do what she likes, despite him now being 16.

Now that he's getting so tall and is very obviously growing into a young man in a physical sense, I'm finding this whole rota thing increasingly weird. In a way, it's normal for us - we've lived with it for years. But I can see more and more how absolutely odd it is. I don't mean the every other weekend thing (although I do find that odd at their ages, being so rigid). But for exampe on Friday. DH was late home from work, and I had dinner in the oven. 5 mins into his food he was getting agitated about leaving to pick up the DSSs 'on time'. Now, for goodness sake, just because a judge said 10 years ago that 'access' was from 6pm on a Friday, why does that mean it has to be 'adhered' to, to the minute, when the children are the age they are. Similarly yesterday evening, DSS1 was getting very nervous when DSS2 was being slow with his food and kept telling him every 2 mins to 'hurry up' or 'we'll be late'. Apparently, their mother gives off if they're 1 minute late (i.e. later than 6pm on the Sunday).

This is weird weird weird. Where will it all end. I really can't see DSS1 becoming all relaxed when he turns 18. He will never question her control. I can see this continuing for years on end. (and don't suggest it will end when he starts uni - she's already told him he has to live with her the whole time).

[Smum99]

Oh, we have this - the wrath of the ex means DH and DSS are never late, DSS is 13 and there isn't much flexibility 'allowed' by the ex. There is so much tension at the leave time, just to ensure that DSS is out of the door in time. DH is a responsibility person and wouldn't be late in principle but years of the ex having major rants if there is heavy traffic means everyone is conditioned to be on anxious.

DSS just obeys his mum, which means he doesn't have his own thought process which is apparent in other areas of his life. I feel it's sad as my DCs at that age were able to make decisions which have helped them to grow up and be responsible adults.

Generally there is a pattern here for a type of ex

1. Had an affair (but won't take responsibility)
   
2. Is very controlling
   
3. Generally withholds access or makes it all on her terms
   
4. Reacts to reasonable requests for changes with rage.
   

Sounds familiar??

I'm not sure what the future holds, Petal isn't getting the flexibility with the contact schedule so who knows what will happen. As your DSS is older, please come back at tell us what happens:)

[allnewtaketwo]

Thanks smum. Your description is very familiar indeed, yes!

Re. the future - one of my frequent thoughts is what an absolute nightmare any future girlfriend/wife of DSS1 will have, because I don't think he'll ever be anything under that completely under his mother's thumb.

The bit you mention about lack of ability to make decisions in other areas of life - we have that as well. She chooses his subjects at school, his hobbies, and has been known to tell him that he isn't to be friends with certain of his friends. In his 'free' time he has absolutely no idea how to entertain himself. If she goes out for the day, he's been known to phone DH to say he's bored and can't think of anything to do. He doesn't see any friends outside of school (nor does the younger one). So each weekend we have them it's "what are we doing next dad?". Tedious beyond belief.

Yes I promise to provide updates!

[Petal02]

Allnew ? god only knows I understand how you feel!

Just because a judge said 10 years ago that ?access? was from 6pm on a Friday, why does that mean it has to be adhered to, to the minute, when the children are the ages they are?

Why indeed. DH?s consent order doesn?t even state days/times, just the ?alternate weekend with midweek night? phrase, and yet even now, the original pick up/drop off times are still set in stone. If we go out on a Sunday afternoon, even if we drive past DSS?s door at, say, 4.45pm, we can?t drop him off, we have to go home and ?hold? him til 6pm. And then drive him back home. The frustration is hard to describe.

Your situation isn?t helped by having DSS13, whose reliance on the rota is (slightly) more understandable than DSS16?s ? I?m sure the ex relies on the fact that having the arrangements for the younger child makes it more sensible (in her mind) that the older child sticks to them too.

But your DH?s insistence on keeping to time is really annoying. My DH will never be a minute late picking DSS up, but doesn?t worry about taking him home a few minutes late, in other words a few minutes extra access if fine, but if we end up having a few minutes less, then that?s not acceptable.

I think your DH?s ex is a slightly different creature to my DH?s ex. It sounds like your ex is a complete control freak, who will give everyone hell if her wishes aren?t respected, which probably explains why the boys get nervous if they?re likely to be slightly late home. My DH?s ex is slightly different ? she?s hell bent on ensuring that DH does every single minute of parenting that he?s supposed to, and if he ?gets away with? 5 mins here or there, then he?s shirking his responsibilities and not doing enough. However both scenarios are about control.

Last year?s attempts at flexibility fell down mainly because the ex felt that if DSS wasn?t having the correct amount of overnight stays with us, then she should be entitled to more maintenance. She threatened to go to the CSA. She had a go at DSS about this, DSS got upset, and DH would rather sail on an Italian cruiseliner than subject DSS to the wrath of his mother. I did point out to DH that if DSS has his evening meal with us, and then goes home, then surely we?ve born the cost element of the evening, but DH wouldn?t have it.

As an aside, I made my own enquiries with the CSA about this. Their response was interesting: as DH?s doesn?t pay through the CSA, they wouldn?t be interested ? however even if DH did pay through them, they only look at how many ?overnighters? take place on an average week, they don?t make adjustments for adhoc changes (heaven forbid) and more interesting still ?it?s hard to set an overnight arrangement for an older teen as they?re usually developing a social life by that age ??? so even though the threat of the CSA was an empty one, it was still enough to scupper things.

But back to your original post: unless you can get DH on side, challenging this is going to be a non-starter. I say this from the position of bitter experience. If your DH and the two DSS?s both desperate to appease the ex, then you?re outnumbered before you start. It doesn?t help that (as in our household) you have stepchildren who can?t entertain themselves, so they?re never going to have the drive to do anything which breaks the pattern.

I assume you?ve tried to talk to your DH about this, is there any chink of light?

Just to give you a little hope ? we changed the arrangements to accommodate Christmas/New Year, and DSS was fine about it, and I felt DH relaxed a little. This coming week will be interesting; DH is working away Tuesday-Friday, and can?t pick DSS up at 6pm on Thursday for the start of the access weekend. So he said he?d pick him up at 6pm on Friday instead, and will STILL TAKE HIM HOME AT 6PM ON SUNDAY, ie we won?t have to have him for an extra night at the end of his stay to ?compensate.? DH just shrugged and said ?I can?t help it if I?ve got to work? which was music to my ears. Now obviously there?s still chance for DSS/the ex to put pressure on DH about this, but at least he started out with the right idea.

But it?s all totally about control, and whether your and/or my DH will be brave enough to weather any fall-out that would come from standing firm and being master of their own destiny.

All I can say is that I know how you feel. And it?s definitely very weird indeed.

[allnewtaketwo]

"it?s hard to set an overnight arrangement for an older teen as they?re usually developing a social life by that age ??"

Everyone was telling me this for years. They didn't account for the type of 'older teen' our DHs have did they?!

Agree it's all about control. That's good your DH said about a Friday pickup this time instead of Thursday. Hopefully the ex won't scupper that.

Recently I've been trying not so say too much but I couldn't help myself yesterday. When DH got back I asked him if he didn't find the whole situation quite odd given their ages. He does find it odd. But because they DSSs have no apparently willingness to challenge their mother on it, he feels he can't do anything. If he brings them back later she will give them hell. If he brings them back earlier she'll probably tell them he can't be bothered spending his 'allocated' time with them. Her and DH don't actually speak.

We're planning going away on one of the bank holiday weekends they're due to be with us, but the campsites all insist on a min. 3 nights over bank hols. I imagine that DH will invite them to come but she will say they can't stay 3 nights. In that event, if they don't challenge her on it, then surely we should still go and give DS the chance to go camping. I think DH will agree to this.

[Petal02]

Well I suppose it?s something if your DH thinks it?s odd, although getting him to even consider challenging it is another matter altogether.

I think that even if the ex won?t let the DSS?s spend three nights with you over Bank Holiday, you should definitely still take DS ? why should he miss out just because of this ridiculous rota?

Whilst our situations are very similar, the main difference seems to be that DH?s ex won?t allow us to have a minute?s less access than stipulated, but if we want any more ? well that?s absolutely fine. And even on occasions when we?ve had ?extra access?, we?re still not allowed to ?miss? any nights, even though we?re ?in credit? (if you get what I mean). And that?s why I?m not holding my breath about this coming weekend (even though I?m encouraged that DH has started off with the right idea).

Which makes her CSA threats even more ridiculous ? because if she wants more money if we have slightly less access, I bet she wouldn?t expect to receive less money if we have slightly more access? She complains bitterly if DH wants to take DSS home to sleep once he?s had his evening meal (as I said before, even though we?ve born the cost element of the evening) but if we take DSS abroad on holiday for a week, I doubt she?d keep quiet if we adjusted the following month?s maintenance to allow for DSS spending extra time with us.

As I said, it?s all about control. But it?s no coincidence that the children who grow up in these situations appear to be totally unable to think for themselves. Very sad indeed.

[NotaDisneyMum]

Hang on....I thought the Section 8 Orders (residence/contact etc) cease when the child turns 16 ?

Surely it is perfectly possible to say to a 16 year old - "I can't make it until 7pm on Sunday" or "how do you feel about going out for dinner midweek as I can't make it til Saturday next week" ?

If you offer an alternative, but the child refuses for fear of upsetting their mother, then so be it - but at that age, a child really needs to be learning resilience to deal with changes to schedules/routines/plans that happen every day IRL

[Petal02]

Yes, you?re right about such orders running out when a child gets to 16 (I?ve just google?d it).

So whilst no one can legally force either of our DH?s to do anything, I suspect the fear of upsetting either DSS (in my case) or the ex (in Allnew?s case) is far scarier than the long arm of the law ??? And surely in the case of a fixed contact order, it?s only there to ensure that the father can see the child if he wants to, and that you can?t make him have contact? My DH was under the impression that he was legally bound to stick to the rota til DSS was 18.

I pointed out that he has to pay til he is 18, but ?fixed contact? runs out at 16, by which time the child should be old enough to decide how he/she visits each parent. Otherwise what would happen if DSS (like my brothers) joined the forces straight from school age 16 ??????

[allnewtaketwo]

Yes Petal that's quite funny - your DH's ex isn't allowing less nights and my DH's ex isn't allowing more. Both nuts.

That whole csa thing is ridiculous. Wonder if she's thought where she's getting her money from when he turns 18

That's interesting about orders expiring at 16. Although Petal is right - the law means nothing compared to the ex's wrath if DSS1 were to suggest seeing his father more than his mother deems acceptable.

"Surely it is perfectly possible to say to a 16 year old - "I can't make it until 7pm on Sunday" or "how do you feel about going out for dinner midweek as I can't make it til Saturday next week" ?"

I agree with the former - that's perfectly possible. I'm trying to open DH up to these shocking ideas. As for the latter, if DH were to say this to DSS1 (which he has, eg. to choose him a birthday present at shopping centre/family meal), then DSS1's 1st answer is "I'll have to ask mum" or "I don't think mum will let me". It wouldn't dawn on him that he can actually put his coat on and go regardless. But then DH has told me what a bully she can be, and that this is why DSS1 wouldn't dare, even if it did occur to him.

[NotaDisneyMum]

allnew I'm guessing that your DSS isn't particularly well equipped to deal with real life due to his mums dominance ?

Perhaps your DH could talk to DSS about situations (at school, maybe?) when he does make independent decisions and work up to the idea that he can make his own decisions in other areas of life, as well? Does he walk to school unescorted, for instance? How does he decide when to cross a road? Maybe you DH could highlight that if DSS mum entrusts him with that very important decision, then he can make less life-changing decisions such as seeing dad on a different night

I get the feeling from your post that your DH is reinforcing this behaviour as much as DSS mum is, though - poor lad, the big wide world must be a very scary place for him

[allnewtaketwo]

"I'm guessing that your DSS isn't particularly well equipped to deal with real life due to his mums dominance" Yes that's true. I think he will really struggles as an adult, unless he ends up being one of those people who never moves out of home.

"the big wide world must be a very scary place for him". The thing is, he doesn't see that there's any kind of a problem at all. It's so engrained in him that his mum makes all the decisions. For example DH bought him a book a couple of years ago. He mother said he shouldn't read it as he wouldn't understand it. So he told that to DH, saying "mum knows best about these things". It sounds like I'm being over-dramatic here, but the situation is akin to someone being in a cult. They believe everything the leader tells them, no matter how ridiculous everyone on the outside can see it is. Things aren't scary to him at all, because he doesn't have any responsibilities.

[OldernotWiser47]

Yes, I am in a similar situation- DCs 18, 16, 14, and access rota set in stone every Tue, Thur, Sun- and that is maintained mainly by the oldest.
Mind you, the odd one cancels now and again to do stuff with mates, but the oldest in particular likes the rigidity of it- likes to know dad is available.

We have the added bonus that I am not allowed to be there, this is "their" time. Strangely enough, everybody else is welcome, except me and my DC. Jealous, much?
It really is all about control, in this case as much of oldest DC as of Ex.
I am convinced oldest DC will come home from Uni every Sunday from next year, just to make sure "access" happens- I'm not joking!

[PiousPrat]

It doesn't sound over-dramatic at all. I know of 2 brothers who live with a dominant mother and their acquiescing father, so no step complications. They won't do a single thing without Mum okaying it and these aren't children, they are in their late 20s! They are lovely blokes, but it is impossible to have a proper drink and a chat with them as they inevitably end up arguing some point because 'me mam says' different to what you are saying and of course she must be right. They even do this to the extent that they argued with 3 of us who had just finished biology based degrees about something about animal behaviour. Even when shown books, published papers and course notes they argued it must be wrong as Mam had said otherwise.

It is such a shame and must have held them back in life, because not only do they lack critical thinking skills, they lack the ability to form their own opinions.

I doubt there is much you can do to break the mothers dominance over them, all new especially if it is them who end up bearing the wrath if they question it, but maybe you could help them by encouraging free thought and logical thought progression when they are with you? Sort of "and why do you think that (unrelated thing, maybe a news story) has happened? What might the outcome be?". It doesn't have to be in any way related to their situation, but if you encourage that sort of critical thinking and help give them those skills, you may well find that it spills over into their own lives and they start questioning just WHY things are as they are and who it benefits as a handy little side effect. Even if it doesn't and you are stuck dancing to this silly tune for another 5 years, at least they might be a bit better equipped to face the world without their mum at their back.

[Petal02]

I get the feeling from your post that your DH is reinforcing the behaviour as much as DSS mum is

It?s the same in our house. I?m not convinced that DH is 100% happy with it, but if you don?t challenge something, then surely you?re validating it by default? I think DH?s preferred option would be that DSS were independent, but it too Disney to facilitate this.

The big wide world must be a very scary place for him

Absolutely ? a child who arrives at work/uni after having spent 18+ years having all decisions made for them, is really going to struggle. As with Allnew, this doesn?t appear to worry my DH, he just sticks his head in sand about it, and will worry about it nearer the time. However that time is getting near.

The situation is akin to someone being in a cult

I couldn?t have put it better myself. It does sound dramatic, but that?s just how it is. You have to stick to a weird arrangement, just for the sake of having a weird arrangement. Very unhealthy.

The previous poster really struck a chord when she said she could imagine her stepson coming home from Uni every weekend, just to ensure that access takes place. Which brings another dimension to the ?control? element of the situation. ??. Allnew and I both have ex?s who like to be in control, however as time wears on, I think there?s a power struggle emerging between DSS and I. It?s not as black and white as ?fighting for DH?s time/attention?, it?s more complex than that. I?m beginning to realise that (subconsciously?) DSS seems to like the fact that he can control our lives with his apathy.

I don?t know how you?d start unpicking all that, would an expert suggest that as he didn?t have any control in his parent?s divorce, and he tries to have an element of control in other areas? God knows, but it feels quite ?dark? sometimes. As much as DSS appears to be ?dead from the neck up?, there?s definitely a devious streak.

However ? I?m cautiously optimistic about the coming weekend. I said earlier that DH is working away from Tuesday-Friday, and therefore unable to honour the 4pm Thursday pick-up which starts the access weekend. So DH will collect him on Friday instead, and said he?d still take him home on Sunday night as usual (I?d expected we?d have to keep him on Sunday night to compensate for the missed Thursday night). But when I asked DH about this yesterday, he was adamant that DSS is definitely going home on Sunday. If DH is being shifty about something, he normally gets touchy and defensive (and is deliberating vague) but last night it all seemed quite cut and dried. Fingers crossed.

This may sound very trivial, but for DH not to be frantically trying to arrange ?compensatory? access is quite something!

[OldernotWiser47]

Oh yes, compensatory access. We get that- "but if we can't see you Tuesday, then you have to see us Wednesday instead" (whiney tone of voice)- for gods sake, they are TEENS!

But DP is almost as bad, the mother cancelled a Sunday, because of some activity, and he rang his DCs to say it was ok, and he would see them Monday instead??? WTF? He sees them more then I see mine (and mine live with me- typical teens, though), and can't exist 1 weekend without seeing them/ making up for it? If my DD said she was spending the weekend at a friend's house, I do't make her spend time with me the next day?!

[allnewtaketwo]

oldernotwiser - how bizarre that it's the older one that likes the rigidity. Are you really not allowed to be around during 'access'? Has this caused a lot of issues between you and DH? Sympathies! I know what you mean about the university thing. I'm pretty certain my DSS1 will continue with access as normal throughout university.

Piousprat those two you mention sound just like DSS1, but in a number of years time. We often hear the "mums says....". She frequently decides that specialist consultants are wrong, teachers are wrong, etc etc etc. Narcissistic basically, and believes are her own hype. As does DSS1. You're right what you say about critical thinking skills. Will try to do some of this.

[theredhen]

Same sort of response from me.

DSD is nearly 16 and still sticks rigidly to the rota. So for example, we can have(and have had) a situation like this;

Fri - DSD works after school so we don't have to pick her up from school with all the others, we have to pick her up from work, bring her back to ours, feed her in the space of 15 mins before driving her back to virtually her Mums house to drop her off at a club. We then pick her up from club and take her home, we all go straight to bed. She gets up at 9am on the Saturday, we take her at 9.30am to see her boyfriend all day. Pick her up at tea time and give her some tea, half hour later take her to a party where she stays overnight. Pick her up late on Sunday morning. DP then spends late morning and early and mid afternoon taking DSS to football. DP finally actually sees something of DSD at tea time on Sunday, she spends Sunday evening doing homework, he then takes her to school on Monday morning with his other 3 kids.

It's worth remembering that when he is doing all this running around, that his other kids are not seeing him and I am looking after 4 kids on my own. They, and my son too, have clubs, friends and homework to do. So there are many more hours of driving to be done for the other four children in our home etc.

But heaven forbid she actually stay at her Mums house, because A. Mum wouldn't get her "me" time, B. DP wouldn't be punished by doing his share of the running around (DSD would walk to everywhere or get public transport from her house anyway!) and C. DP would kick up a fuss about not seeing her - but how much quality time does he spend with her anyway?!

Surely he could see her one evening during the week and see her for more quality time than the Friday 3pm to Monday 9am contact?

But as I often say, when has common sense got in the way of step parenting?!

[Petal02]

But heaven forbid she should actually stay at her Mum?s house, because (a) Mum wouldn?t get her ?me? time and (b) DP wouldn?t be punished by doing his share of the running around

Two very good points Redhen ? I recognise these situations because we suffer from them too. Rather than having ?me? time (impossible for the ex as she has 2 under-fives) I think the ex is delighted to get DSS out of her hair, as she can then play happily families with her new husband and the two babies she?s had with him, and I TOTALLY get your point about punishment; even though the ex ended the marriage, her stance on things frequently feels like punishment, and unless DH carries out every nano-second of parenting detailed in the contact order, and does every lift/pick-up/drop-off etc, then he?s not ?paying his dues.?

When has common sense got in the way of step-parenting?

Very rarely ???? !!! (Although I?m still cautiously optimistic that we can have a Fri-Sun weekend this week without the need for compensatory access) !!!

[OldernotWiser47]

allnew really, I'm not allowed.
We have discussed it lots, and yes, it's causing a lot of stress, particularly as it's again mainly to please oldest DSD. It is bizarre.
She likes the rigidity, but more for him to be available- it's ok if they cancel/ change dates.
We have discussed moving in together, and how that would work- should I leave our house so she can visit? Hide in the bedroom? him take her out every time? He has agreed it's ridiculous and will have to change.

[TheProvincialLady]

I have read quite a few of your posts on this subject now and whilst I sympathise with you a great deal, surely you must have reached the point where you either accept that this is how it is going to be until both boys reach 18 or you accept that you can't live with it any more and leave your DP? It seems to rile you so much every time something else quite minor happens, and it can't be good for you to be getting this worked up over it every time. You can't change your DSSs, you can't change your DP (and it doesn't sound like he is going to of his own accord), you can't change his ex ... all you can change is your response. And if you don't change anything, this situation is going to stay exactly the same. Can you live with that or can't you?

[allnewtaketwo]

"either accept that this is how it is going to be until both boys reach 18 or you accept that you can't live with it any more and leave your DP"

If you've read the posts, you'll know that actually, I don't see things changing at all when they reach 18. And I don't think pointing out how weird I find it is the same as saying I can't live with it. Good to have a chat on here though with some other people in similar boats, certainly. I think everybody needs an outlet really. Just got to read some of the other parenting/chat threads to see how much parents need to vent about their own children, let alone steps.

"all you can change is your response" I don't respond though (except to vent on here obviously!) and to discuss it with DH (who also finds it weird actually). We all just go along with a weird weird situation which is set, as far as I can see, to last indefinitely. I think this artificial cut-off of 18 that people assume a bit weird. An 18 yo who is keen to stick to a rigid access rota isn't going to suddenly want to stop at the age of 19 imo.

[TheProvincialLady]

Sorry, I forgot that you didn't see this changing at 18. That just makes it even harder doesn't it?

I didn't mean to criticise you. Of course you have a right to rant about what bothers you. What I meant is, it is hard for you if every small thing winds you up (like your husband being on edge because he 'needs' to be on time to collect his son) and I wonder if there is something you can do to stop that reaction on your part - the reaction in your head I mean, not anything you actually say or do. A genuine letting go.

[Petal02]

Provincial Lady ? I think you?re suggesting that Allnew ?detach? from the situation? Believe me, we?ve all tried it, and it?s damn hard to ignore the elephant in the room, and pretend that something farcical is actually perfectly sensible. Particularly when you life, marriage and household are affected (effected?) by it.

People often say to me that my situation should improve ?once DSS gets to 18? but I really don?t see how turning 18 is going to make any difference, his birthday is simply another day in the week, and we all know how significant birthdays don?t actually change anything, it?s just a number. The only thing that would bring about change is if the step children in question either suddenly (or gradually) grow up and exhibit age-appropriate behaviour, of if they enrol at a University that?s too far away to come home at the weekend ? I?m searching for courses at the University of Outer Mongolia for DSS!

I understand the principle of modifying your reaction if you can?t change a situation, but speaking from experience it winds you up to such a point that it can be almost impossible to paint a smile on your face and ignore it. And it is really healthy to suppress things like this?

At our house, if I go along with DH treating DSS like he?s 7, then the weekend passes peacefully and DH is happy, but it?s just so FALSE. For example - if DSS does something ?clever? like get himself dressed without supervision or remains seated at the table during a meal, DH praises him fanatically in the same way you?d praise a dog who?d just fetched the ball you?d thrown and I?ve left the room on occasions, to avoid starting a row.

And if I were in Allnew?s shoes, having to see DH getting uptight if he may be 2 mins late to collect/drop-off, well I?d get angry with the pure stupidity of it. Detaching is fine in theory, but not so easy in practice.

[TheProvincialLady]

Fair enough Petal, I'm not a step parent so I don't have the experiences you have. Though I wasn't suggesting suppressing emotions - that certainly wouldn't be healthy.

[NotaDisneyMum]

Detaching is possible when it comes to certain of aspects of step-parenting/blended families, in my experience anyway - after a while, I really did stop caring that DSS ended every meal wearing as much food as he had eaten, or the fact that he expects to be told to make his own breakfast every damn morning no matter how many times he is asked to get on with it himself

When it comes to fundamental failures in parenting though, it is almost impossible to emotionally detach imo; what kind of women would we be if we didn't care that our DP can't/won't parent their DC's and teach those DC's the skills needed to live a happy life as adults, making a positive contribution to society?

I have always been very clear in my own mind, and with DP, where my boundaries are and what are non-negotiable/deal breakers for me. There are situations that I have read on MN that would have me out the door - I lost respect for my exH, and I never want to be in that situation with DP. I think it would be better that I leave in that situation, rather than become frustrated and bitter about DP's choices regarding the DC's.

I am very fortunate - DP and I have attended parenting classes, met with family support workers, attended workshops about separated and blended families and we have developed and share similar beliefs and values. DP recognises that in the past, he was a Disney Dad and gave he DSD adult status - and he accepts the damage that has done. He is now trying his best to undo that, and I will support him in any way I can all the while we share the same goal. If he was motivated by fear of losing the DC's, rather than a determination to parent them - then he would no longer have my support.

[flixy102]

redhen and petal both make points which really strike chords with me, the bit about the ex getting her 'me' time and wanting their child out of their hair.

My DH's ex has always been very rigid with the access days, with the 'compensation days' midweek if DH is working the weekend, or having the attitude of 'well xyz days are your days so you have to make alternative arrangements for childcare.'

I always said to my DH that this was his ex's way of 'getting rid' of her daughter, which always made me feel incredibly sad for DSD. Recently, she and her husband have had their first child and so the access days are used as her 'family days' for her husband and new little family.

It makes me for DSD, even tho I know she is a happy and content young lady, I'm just glad that other people have recognised these behaviours in their own situations.