Are your step kids like this?

[theredhen]

Dp ex is the most arrogant and rude person I have ever come across. Narcisstic has been mentioned before.

Dp children also have very few manners and, like a lot of step children, an enhanced sense of entitlement. I work on their basic manners when they are here, refusing to answer if I don't get a please or just gentle reminders etc.

However, what I find really hard is the "big headedness" and argumentativeness.

For example, whatever I talk about to DSD1 or DSD4 is always met with hostility and a disagreement. DSD4 (aged 9) appears to be very fond of me and wants my attention the WHOLE time, literally following me from room to room and sitting outside my door at 6am . But, she also disagrees with anything and everything I say to her. For example she got a new necklace for Christmas from a friend. I said how pretty it was and as we were in my bedroom at the time, I showed her one very similar that I own and commented that "our necklaces are nearly the same". She then will tell me why they are not the same and how hers is better than mine. She commented on a Xmas card from a friend, she said that she got the same one as we did. I explained that Xmas cards often come in boxes and he probably had a box full of the same card. "Ah yes, but mine is better, because it has an extra kiss in it" she told me and continued to tell me and others another 4 times in that day. If I say something is nice, she will say it is nasty, it's like she wants to shoot down my positivity.

DSD1 is aged 15 and is incredibly rude. Mostly I just put it down to being a teen. If she doesn't want to communicate, then that's fine, but recently I know that she is deliberately trying to wind up her father and myself. Again, whatever you talk about, she will do her best to put a negative spin on things. The other night, she critisised my hairdresser (and my hair), my cooking, my sons education, she didn't answer when spoken to and was generally downright rude.

Of course, my biggest issue will always be my DP complete lack of parenting when it comes to this stuff, but underneath that, what is going on with these kids. Are they jealous? DSD4 for example, wants my attention all the time, but doesn't want mine AND dp attention, only mine - I suspect to keep me away from DP and my son who she also demands attention from if she isn't getting it from me. I do tell her that she must stop following me around etc. when it happens and make sure I give her positive attention at other times, but I seem to get no reward because everything I say to her is shot down in flames.

DSD is rude to everyone and sarcastic and poorly mannered. However, she seems to have plenty of friends and a boyfriend who is a bit of a doormat, to be honest. Sometimes you see glimpses of niceness but it's a rare thing.

[brdgrl]

I think I know what you mean.

In our case, DH (and I think the kids' mum as well when she was around) told the kids constantly how clever, sophisticated, smart etc etc etc they are. Before the flaming starts, let me say that I am all in favour of building up your kids' self-esteem, but I am talking about excessive praise accompanied by no efforts at correction of less desirable (and quite normal) behaviours or qualities. DH has also always excused any problem behaviours...for instance, when she was a toddler, DSD was kicked out of nursery for bad behaviour. DH's perspective on that is of course that DSD was "too smart" and "too strong a personality" and was "bored" at nursery. I think its bollocks, and was in fact an early warning sign of some behaviours she still expresses today.

DH also encourages the kids to have an exaggerated perception of their own intelligence and accomplishments. My SCs are very bright! But they do not know everything, and they are not so intelligent as to be elevated to another status, IYSWIM. DH and I have had arguments in the past, because I feel that the kids are allowed to be incredibly rude and 'know-it-all' in discussions with others. Specifically, DSD will lecture us as dinner on what of the subjects she feels she is expert in, mainly the subjects she just did her GCSEs in. While I am all for encouraging the kids to share what they're learning...it isn't like that. It is a lecture in which we are supposed to acknowledge her as the superior expert. Sometimes she gets something factually wrong, but if you try to correct her - even subtly - she just won't have it. And if we have a difference of opinion, she just treats me as if I am too stupid to understand. DH says it doesn't bother him, he just tunes it out - but I think it is downright rude.

Last night she mentioned her "degree" in biology - no, she did biology at GCSE and got an "A", but that is not a degree, honey! At times I just want to say to her "you know what? I went to school too. I have three degrees, in fact. How many do you have?" (No, I don't say this!) I've known many very bright children - which SCs definitely are - but the problem is their self-perception and sometimes I have to say - their arrogance.

Both the kids also brag a great deal about their school and how much smarter and better the kids there are, and they just sort of assume that they are more intelligent than other people. I hate it; it gets right under my skin but is very hard to address without seeming as though you want to tear down a kid!

I also think it is actually bad for the SCs. DSS is not doing well at school, at all. And yet he's encouraged to think he'd doing well "enough". DSD was an advanced reader as a small child - but is reading at a level way below her age now (she is 16) - and although she has done pretty well at GCSEs, she truly could have done better but she is quite lazy and unmotivated with her schoolwork...but the official story is that DSD is a "real reader!" and "a great student!"...it just gets accepted as fact, so nobody questions why she isn't doing more like she is in fact capable of.

Oh, god - I've really banged on, haven't I? Can you tell you have hit a chord?

[Mummyinggnome]

Ditto ditto ditto!

[theredhen]

brdgrl,

Do we have the same step kids?

What you are describing is just how the three eldest are. They go to a failing school are doing mostly BTEC's but DP ex tells anyone and everyone that they are the brightest kids in the country because DSD2 once took a test that probably only 2 schools in the country took part in and she got the second highest mark!

Dp is realistic about their efforts and achievements - he has been critisised by his ex for not taking their education seriously, this was when he tried to get his fourteen year old daughter to re-take a GCSE which the school insisted she take early then gained a mark which was 2 grades down from where she was predicted! Apparently that was putting her down, since when has expecting better been "putting her down".

These kids have no interest in our lives at all and learning from them. My own DS has an interest in everyones life. Doesn't mean he wants to be the same, but he does try and learn something from other people rather than pretending he knows it all!

[brdgrl]

Adding - Whenever I catch DH doing it with our baby DD, I step in. He'll say "she's such a genius" when she does one of her clever-but-entirely-human baby things. Hey - I am a proud mommy too! But I guess I am over-cautious now, having seen how DH praises the SCs. I'm forever saying to DH "she's not a genius, she's our lovely baby!"

I guess I should be careful not to swing too far the other way. But I would not like someone constantly going on at DD about how beautiful she is, because I'd be afriad it would make her too concerned and even insecure about her looks, or inclined towards being shallow, or just devalue her other qualities. So I don't want to heap too much praise on her for being smart, either. Maybe I'm wrong, but I so want DD to be nice as well as successful.

[elastamum]

I hate to say this, but it seems that your partners are contributing to the problems in your household. Have never had any issues with my partners son when he is here and my partner has no problems supervising my children either. Both of us are equally insistent on manners, good behaviour and help with chores from all our children (boys 15, 12, 11). I frequently send DS1 and SS out to walk the dogs together in the evening. They might grumble if it is raining, but they all get up and go! They are all expected to study and work hard at school. SS will even come in and sit down and help DS1 with his homework.

Everyone here knows the house rules, no one gets off the hook.

Also, tell your H self esteem isnt built by hollow praise but by recognising achievement and hard work. If you praise children for nothing much they actually do less and less as they dont want to fail and not get the praise.

[brdgrl]

What you are describing is just how the three eldest are. They go to a failing school are doing mostly BTEC's but DP ex tells anyone and everyone that they are the brightest kids in the country because DSD2 once took a test that probably only 2 schools in the country took part in and she got the second highest mark!
yep, that's very like our's! They go to a school which is rated very well - but which I have a lot of issues with; I think it is just very good at teaching to the test! It is a Cathlic grammar school; we don't pay, but the other kids seem mainly to be quite well-off, so there is an element of class-ism there as well.

this was when he tried to get his fourteen year old daughter to re-take a GCSE which the school insisted she take early then gained a mark which was 2 grades down from where she was predicted! Apparently that was putting her down, since when has expecting better been "putting her down".

ah. We paid for DSD to have her English GCSE remarked because clearly they must have been being unfair or just plain wrong to not give her a better mark. They remarked it - no difference.

These kids have no interest in our lives at all and learning from them.
That's what I find most difficult I think - they treat me as if I have nothing to offer and know nothing about anything. I think I can count on one hand the number of times that DSD has asked me a question about anything. She is doing a subject at school now which is my field; I am currently doing a PhD - but she acts as if she's learned it all.

I know some of this is teenage know-everythingness - but it seems more profound than that.

[brdgrl]

I hate to say this, but it seems that your partners are contributing to the problems in your household.

oh, definitely!!!
we have more rules now than they used to, so in some areas manners and helpfulness have improved...and the open rudeness (calling me names, making blonde jokes at my expense, sniping at me) has actually stopped almost entirely. But this sort of thing - I find it tougher to get through to DH what is wrong, as he just believes he is boosting their self-esteem and treating them with respect - it is a question of degrees and balance, I suspect - but DH has historically been a Disney Dad and his one goal in life for years seemed to be to keep his kids from ever experiencing a single moment of unhappiness. That's where we differ - I want DD to be able to cope with unhappiness, but I don't think I can or should prevent it altogether - and I fully accept that sometimes I will be the one making her unhappy!

[Smum99]

We have an element of this as well with DSS. When DSS sat his Year6 SATS he didn't get the higher level that he 'should' have so his mum insisted it was remarked! It was however obvious that DSS was assessed at the correct level, subsequently DSS isn't achieving the higher levels at Secondary school and this is 'obviously down to the unfairness of the SATs level - which is still be used", nothing to do with the fact he is tested each term and year and for 3 years he still hasn't reached the higher level!

I do think the partners can contribute to the issue but I believe there is a common factor which is the lack of support (or undermining) by the other parent. i.e the disney behaviour by dads is driven by their fear of not seeing the DC's. We've had this situation - If DH tries to encourage good behaviour such as homework routine or politeness then DSS is allowed & encouraged by his mum to say that he won't come to us, unless DH 'drops it'. DH has 2 choices, instill good behaviour which is his natural instinct or allow DSS to behave how he wants to. He tries to do both, which is a very difficult balance, however he knows that DSS is losing out as it's apparent when with teens of a similar age that as DSS doesn't have the social skills.

I feel for DH - he is dammed if he tries to set boundaries does and dammed if he doesn't.

[theredhen]

smum,

This is the problem we read on here over and over again. DSC behaving badly, Dad trying to discipline and then Mum declaring that her little darlings don't have to go to Daddy's anymore because he's "nasty" to them.

We had one occassion where DSS swore twice at DP when he was aged 10 and Mum stopped him from coming after that. DSS hadn't told her the truth obviously but even when she did find out, she still let him stay with her and didn't punish him.

When he pushed a lit bunsen burner in another childs face in school, neither parent gave him any consequence, he lies about being ill and welfare officers are now getting involved because she won't actually discipline him and make him do as he's told. Both parents are frightened of upsetting the kids, her because they might want to spend more time with us, and him because she might prevent access.

Dp says he doesn't like their arrogance and lack of manners, but constantly lets them get away with it.

I too feel for DP but at the end of the day surely the most important thing is that you do right by your kids, even if that means your own needs and desires don't get met (ie. your wanting to see your kids). I would rather my child knew that I wanted him to be the best person he could be, than let him behave badly just so I could see him. Perhaps that's easy for me to say, but I think you either have principles or you don't.

[Smum99]

Elasta, I would say that you are fortunate and I wish more were in your situation.

I frequently send DS1 and SS out to walk the dogs together in the evening. They might grumble if it is raining, but they all get up and go!

I think this is a good example - it some step households a stepmum wouldn't be able to suggest this - the step child would whine and the mum would be on the phone accusing the step mum of abusive behaviour.

Where a parent undermines the other parent the DCs very quickly learn that they can manipulate the situation. The impact is that the DC's behaviour spiral downwards - especially as they hit teens and then there is a vicious circle. This is why professionals put such emphasis into joint & co operative parenting but you can't make a person co-parent.

If the DC's are fortunate enough to have co-operative parents then I think they have the chance of growing up mostly unaffected by a divorce. I really do believe this, my ex was an ex for a reason BUT he was always my daughter's father and I made sure she knew he loved her..even if at times they fell out. Why one parent would choose to damage the other parent/child relationship is just alien to me (BOM's case is an example)...It deeply damages the child which often is seen until adulthood.

[brdgrl]

I think this is a good example - it some step households a stepmum wouldn't be able to suggest this - the step child would whine and the mum would be on the phone accusing the step mum of abusive behaviour.

Yup, and in some cases, it doesn't even require an ex/other parent to undermine the whole thing! My SCs mum is deceased. But I still have the Disney Dad problem, only instead of it stemming from "if I am too hard on my kids they'll just go off to their mum's/love their mum more/refuse to see me at all", it stems from "if i am too hard on my kids they will be unhappy and they've already had enough unhappiness so I'd better try to compensate by not asking them to do anything they'd prefer not to do."

I know I have it easier in the respect that there is no third party adding to the mix! But if our OHs won't support us as stepmums, we're screwed.