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Mumsnet/KIDS support session on challenging behaviour: Thursday September 20, 9pm(122 Posts)
We're pleased to announce that the third support session with members of KIDS staff will be held on Thursday September 20 between 9pm amd 10pm (in the hope that this will avoid most kids' bed-times!). The topic will be challenging behaviour. (You can see the first session here and the second session here.)
KIDS is a national charity working with disabled children, young people and their families across England. The KIDS representative at this session will be Kim Steele (KIDS Development Coordinator for the south-east).
The idea of these support sessions is to complement the advice and support that Special Needs posters already give each other with the insight and experience of people working for an organisation in the field. We hope that the session will pull together perspectives and advice from MNers and from KIDS staff, and that the thread will serve as a reference point for posters looking for advice about behaviour.
It would be great to have as many of you as possible join us 'live' on Thursday evening, but if you can't make it, please also post up any advance questions for here.
We'd really appreciate your feedback on these sessions, so if you can find the time to fill in a survey after the session, that would be great - it's open to lurkers as well as posters - to everyone who has seen the thread.
Challenging behaviour is behaviour which may put themselves or others at risk, or which may prevent the use of ordinary community facilities or a normal home life. This behaviour may include aggression, self injury, stereotyped behaviour or disruptive and destructive behaviours. These behaviours are not under the control of the individual concerned and are largely due to their lack of ability to communicate.
Challenging behaviour is defined as:
Culturally abnormal behaviour(s) of such an intensity, frequency or duration that the physical safety of the person or others is likely to be placed in serious jeopardy, or behaviour which is likely to seriously limit use of, or result in the person being denied access to, ordinary community facilities.
I'm in ! Dd is always awful at transitions, so takes about half aterm to settle. Her TA's and I compare bruises.
To be honest, the bigger challanging behavior problems are the quiet ones .... Biting his own arms, not engaging, ignoring conversational topics in order to talk about video games... Getting teachers to recognise this as a real problem is very hard. If he hit other people as often as he hurts himself, he would have a one to one at school, but because its only him, he's left to it
why do they behave at school (not hitting and screaming but not fully participating) and exhibit challenging behaviour at home? (despite using the same strategies i would use in school?)
why is it they sometimes work and at other times they are as much use as a chocolate teapot. and why is it always our fault? (bad parents/bad homelife/mother works full time/mother at home babying child)
Devient have you got lots of symbols/photos (depending on your DS's level of development) for schedules? Do you have rewards for completing small tasks shown in symbol/photo form (Now: socks, next: bubbles - or whatever is the best motivator at the time) and repeat for the next item of clothes. Is it noise of the activity that DS can not tolerate? If so, have you tried ear defenders? I'm sure you've been through all these ideas, but feel free to PM me if you think I can offer any more as it's part of my job.
I want to ask how I teach him impulse control. I.e. he knows absolutely about crossing roads and won't cross without holding my hand, BUT half way across he could see a leaf and it would wipe out all thoughts of the road, cars etc and he would just run to get it, in front of traffic.
He does things like that a lot and also self edits instructions, so don't lock the door becomes 'don't lock the door but try it and if it's not stiff it's fine'
There seems to be no learning about these things and they put him in danger, I would really appreciate any suggestions. Ds is 4 and asd.
Also HOW do you explain strangers and not talking to them to a child who can only understand absolutes? I can't say never talk to anyone mummy hasn't told you is ok, as that would exclude most teachers at school and he can't cope with more complex definition than that! This is a serious problem as he is very passive and goes off and talks to strangers all the time! So is very vulnerable! (NB I do watch him and stop him talking to these people but nothing stops him trying!)
totally agree pipinjo A thorough, intensive program nationally which addresses ASD and associated areas of difficulty for our kids. Just being listened to about possible triggers and behaviours for an individual child.
I have discussed, exhaustively, the idiosyincracies of my DS, his possible triggers, environmental needs, what upsets him, etc , etc. It seems to fall on deaf ears too often and I get the call to pick him up or come into school to sort things out...again and again. Or he comes home and has a horrible day and difficulty going to move his bowels because he was unable to at school and held it in, causing many issues with behaviour for him and leading to huge distress and upset for him, that nobody has listened to me when I explained this trigger area and not recognised this possible for him when in school...(he needs to strip off and often sit in the loo for 20mins or more)...just the behaviour and ending up in negative situations because of the lack of attention to triggers, difficulties, etc
Managing behaviour but lacking the wherewithall to identify (or even try) to address the actual issue for the child. The lack of understanding or any respect for our kids is huge.
Our kids don't want to behave badly, they don't seek to be difficult. It too often does eventually lead to just feeling anger because the lack of understanding and support has built up to unmanageable levels. My DS is refusing school entirely now and this is a big part of why he is feeling so defeated and lost there, with nobody he has been able to identify with who has tried to understand him.
He is scared of being there, has nobody to turn to, nobody understanding him and he is totally lost and very vulnerable. (He told me he had asked the staff to use quieter voices because he was finding it hard to listen...they laughed at him and walked away!!!)His anxieties are at unmanageable levels and he's now having to take medication for this!!
The schools focus is his behaviour...my focus is the lack of understanding and inability of the school to support him or respect his differences.
Every child needs balance within any situation. It doesn't seem to happen and I believe many of my DS issues outwith our home are entirely due to ignorance and lack of knowledge...never mind basic respect for him and his needs.
The damage to our kids is huge imo and needs serious thought and deed if it is ever to improve for them.
Can I ask a question for discussion?
Two children find concentrating difficult and a particular maths makes them anxious. Child A mutters through it, tuts, flicks another child's ear, rips another child's work and spits at the teacher to try and avoid the work. Child B keeps quiet, says very little, tunes out but tries to give the illusion of compliance and gets away with minimum.
Which one has challenging behaviour?
What if child B subsequently went home and trashed his bedroom?
Could the strategies for dealing with child A and B ever be the same and if so, what could they be?
Yes I think so too Pipin, but Child B's behaviour tends not to be dealt with in my experience, or at least assumed to be due to lack of intelligence with outbursts at home being supported by sending the parents on parenting courses.
Marking my place. I maybe posting under a different name later on.
Hi PipinJo - yes, the idea is that Kim will come on at 9pm and get stuck in to the questions.
Welcome to Kim, who'll be ready to dive in to your questions soon.
Hi mumsnet I would like to take this opportunity to introduce myself and my colleague. I am Kim Steele and I am the developemnt co-ordinator for KIDS south east region and Heather Penhaligon who is KIDS short breaks co-ordinator. Within our organisation part of Heather and my role is to support our various respite services for disabled children and young people. This includes teaching behaviour support strategies and implementation of behaviour plans which aim to meet individual needs whilst in our care.
We look forward to joining this live chat and answer as many questions as we can.
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