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I am angry, upset, annoyed and quite frankly could have slapped my sons reception teacher today:0(

(23 Posts)
brandy77 Wed 04-Nov-09 18:56:26

5 year old son has hormone problems (medicated) although school refuse to medicate him so i either have to give him a half dose before school or give him nothing. He has had extreme behaviour since as long as i can remember, witnessed by numerous people. Violence mainly aimed at me, but can scream and shout and be aggressive towards others. School have witnessed his behaviour on only a few occasions since starting school in september.

He is awaiting a 3rd pyschological assessment after his paediatrician witnessed a "severe behavioural disturbance" in his clinic.

We are in hospital next week for a few days as he has to go in every 6months for hormone tests. I arranged to see the teachers at the end of the day as we wont be here for consultation week next week. My son is tired by the end of the day and wants to get home. I went to him in the classroom and we were alone and i sensed he would kick off and he said he just wanted to go home. The teachers came back and my son does what he does best when im interacting with anyone, pulling at me, crying, making noises (grunting/growling)glaring, pushing etc etc. There is really no point in shouting at him because he flares up even more. I generally continue talking to show him i wont give in and give him attention.

- "how strict are you at home"

- "surely if there was a problem he would be like it at school"

- "why cant you have more of a structure at home"

I was so embarassed and annoyed that they were questioning me. I am super strict with my son and have a very strict routine because of his meds. I told them that if the 1st diagnosis was correct (attachment disorder to me cause of hospital visits) then he would indeed be ok at school and not with me. I am so annoyed with them, it is hard enough not knowing the answers myself without being questioned like this and being unprepared, i thought i was going to be discussing his schoolworksad

brandy77 Wed 04-Nov-09 18:57:50

should have said they asked these questions.....

defineme Wed 04-Nov-09 19:07:14

|You know the truth and it's good he is having another assessment.
The teacher was ignorant and misguided in her questioning. All I would say is that primary school teachers know about teaching nt children and are rarely given special needs training. I gave my ds's teachers guides to working with as children.
I would consider sending a neutral email/note saying you're sorry she had to witness your ds's behavioural issues, but it's commen knowledge that many children hold themselves together at school and then let it out with their parents. You shouldn't have to defend yourself, but it's a long school year ahead of you.
Have you tried all areas of complaint to get him his medication? Coulkd you contact the lea about it?
Sorry you had such a tough end to the day.

PeachyInCarnivalFeathers Wed 04-Nov-09 19:10:36

It'snot unusualfor this sort of thing to be bandied about sadly- many of us on here have had it, I was told there is no such thing as asd,just abd aprents (FFS! ).

It's not unusual for children to rpesent differently in different settings-its far easier to be oneself and release frustrations when you feelsafe,protected and loved unconditionally- hence some of us get behaviours that aremost pronounced at home (and of course tiredness can exaccerbate that)

brandy77 Wed 04-Nov-09 19:51:27

thankyou,

so do lots of the children on here with behavioural/pyschological problems show their behaviour more at home? is it because the school day is so structured. this is what i tried telling them but they didnt want to listen. it was so humiliating

my mum has just reminded that my son didnt know he was staying after school for the meeting, because i forgot about it till she reminded me. so his thought all day long was probably, if im good im allowed on my playstation. the teachers said he had told them today that if hes good hes allowed on it, so to be kept after school without being forewarned (my mistake) probably didnt help matters at all...then i didnt let him go on the playstation because of the outburst which led to an hour long tantrum..but i didnt give insad

i actually left a lengthy message on the school voicemail that i wasnt happy that my parenting was being questioned, that my son does indeed have behavioural issues and that if they are not apparent at school then i am very happy about that, but that it isnt down to me that he is like it and that he wouldnt be still seeking a diagnosis for the behaviour if there was nothing wrong! grrrrr and that they were out of order saying what they did.

definie me, i will talking to his paed in london next week about the meds, its complicated giving them to him as he can only have the meds when hes passed urine, some mornings he hasnt passed urine but im still having to give him a small dose of it anyway as the school refuse to do it as they say its too complicated!!

his father (we are not together) is going to make an apt to see the teachers to back me up that i am super strict, have very strict routines and it is mainly myself and my teenage son that are subject to the mood swings/aggression....although like you say i shouldnt feel i have to defend myself

StarlightMcKenzie Wed 04-Nov-09 22:05:12

Message withdrawn

brandy77 Wed 04-Nov-09 22:18:13

thankyou starlight mckenzie, i will smile sweetly at the class teacher tomorow morning and wait for any response about a meeting with them IF they listened to my phone call, il see what my ex says when he rings them and will go from there as to wether i arrange a further meeting. wont be there next week as we in hospital so thats gives a weeks break from it. on reflectin i should have been tougher and said "how dare you imply my parenting is too blame" but when you are faced with 2 teachers and you arent prepared its difficult. prepared, i can speak bluntly and fortrightly very well. thankyou.x

PeachyInCarnivalFeathers Thu 05-Nov-09 09:29:16

It is ahrd Brandy,I am frequently in the situation with school of knowing what I should have said ten minutes after the event.

I think having a fixed routine does help at school but tbh we are very routine focussed- 2asd kids force that on a dai;y basis,and I panic if big changes are sprung on me. I do think its all about safety and tiredness with ds1. And also about imitation- ds1 has 29 other children in the same role to imitate ats chool, here he is the only one that is him IYSWIM (he has a similarly aged sibling but ds2 does a lot of things such as clubs that ds1 cannot atm).

PeachyInCarnivalFeathers Thu 05-Nov-09 09:31:04

Oh its sometimes worth facing them off and saying

'If you can find me a suitable parenting class I can attend I will galdly do so in case I get any ideas, but if all you have to offer is self esteem ruining criticisms then I suggest that will not help'.

I did that and sat through a session much like the one I used to run in my last job (!!!) bored, then when we asked for more helplater on we were toldwe were too good aprents by ssd. You couldn't make iy up.

brandy77 Thu 05-Nov-09 10:06:16

morning peachy, i actually wrote a lengthy message in his contact book at 11oc last night as i was still stewing, i did include the line "when the two of you have a degree in pyschology please do let me know and you will be in a much better situation to comment on my parenting concerning my sons behavioural issues"...i dont really care now. I have been so sucky uppy to the teachers and trod so carefully so as to not upset the applecart. I am just so pissed off, i didnt sleep and then got up at 5amsad

Im going to ring the LEA now and find out what their rules are on giving children medication on an "as needed" basis, its so annoying because 2 years ago when i went to register him at the school i told the Head that he had medication that wasnt given at set times and the Head said "oh thats fine, thats no problem"

my ex has just text to say he has a meeting with the school at 2.45 just to back me up really that he knows full well what my sons volatile behaviour has always been like

PeachyInCarnivalFeathers Thu 05-Nov-09 10:11:12

You know, sounds likethis has ushed you into very important action, which is good- just a shame they made you feelbad.

I have found 'Oh,whcih medicalchool did you do your Paeditrics training at?'has been handy on occasionLOL, though it never wins friends wink

joburg Thu 05-Nov-09 11:12:59

have you ever put yourself into the shoes of a teacher? one teacher has 20-30 kids to keep an eye on and make sure every single one is safe and sound. our DD is on hormonal treatment, has ADHD, lacking attention and focusing, is delayed, sensory integration issues, and i do understand she is not easy to handle. they also questioned us. i didn't feel hurt, why would i? it's their duty to find out as much as possible. we were turned down for an extra curriculum programe for kids based on the fact that DD was agresive and hyperactive and they didn't feel it's safe for all the other kids to be with her while she wouldn't obey, sleep for midday, but hit, scream, whatever. I didn't get angry, just tried to understand the teacher from her point of view, not always confortable but then, hey, we are not the only ones around.

PeachyInCarnivalFeathers Thu 05-Nov-09 11:22:10

I think the difference is joburg,that whilst your school as sayiong no, it wasn't saying you had aused the reason for that (as far as I can gather from your posts)

Whilst this school is being uncoperative with regards tomedicines that the child needs,and causing Mum to feeldoubted and unsupported.

I'veexperienced both scenarios and feeling that soemone blames you or disbeleives you is massively upsetting, I know of one case where a teacher has gone on to have formal complaints upheld for doing that (not by me, though was same teahcer I had issues with).

brandy77 Thu 05-Nov-09 11:35:21

joburg, the class has 14 children in it, that is why i chose the school because it is small and he could be monitored more, especially with his medications.

the class teacher told me at the beginning of the year that she had learnt her lesson with a child the previous year. the teacher admitted that she had treated the mother badly because she felt there was nothing wrong with the boy,although his behaviour at home was extreme, who incidentally was diagnosed autistic. well the teacher hasnt learnt from her mistake because she is doing it again. I am a TA myself in a large secondary school and certainly would not make accusations like the TA and teacher did yesterday, it is unprofessional.thankyou for comment though.

thankyou peachy, i will let you know what is said in the meeting with my sons father later.x

joburg Thu 05-Nov-09 13:05:10

brandy, we had the opposite experience last year (after the nursery experience i talked about), aftyer DD was diagnosed with sensory integration issues and we needed to do OT therapy with her in school, which was the school's normal policy. But we had the teacher fighting against it, just because DD was such an extrovert little girl, everybody loved her and couldn't believe smth was wrong. it was really awkward, the teacher looking at the pshycolog's report was telling me in the face that both me and the clinic are idiots .... i do understand what you are saying in your post, i'm just trying to understand a teacher's biased point of view. It might be hard to see in school among all those kids, as much as a mother can see at home. that's all i wanted to pinpoint to. trying to make you relax a bit despite all the crap and understand you are not alone. i had my mad moments too .... then we changed school then ... we'll see how it goes this year.

brandy77 Thu 05-Nov-09 14:12:54

thankyou joburg, he is ok in school, this is the issue, they are saying there is no problem in school which is great.

although they seem to be forgetting the times hes had to be manhandled out of the car by the Head and attempting to kick her in the face?! and when he jabbed at the teachers face 3 fast jabs only 2 weeks ago or when he screamed the harvest festival hall down and threatened to punch the TA?!? perhaps they think this is normal behaviour and thats why they say hes ok at school and implied quite bluntly that it is my parenting as my son is awful around me. This has always been a major issue, but he is getting better, he will not allow me to talk to anyone, he controls everything about me. I am the only person he will cuddle and I am the person who mainly experiences the aggression. Anyway my ex is basically going to the school to explain that he has experienced our sons behaviour (we never lived together) on many many occasions where he suddenly flips out and attacks, mainly me sad

I am pleased your daughter is getting along fine smile

and roll on the pyschologist meeting

MojoLost Thu 05-Nov-09 14:25:41

brandy, that sounds awful. On top of having to deal with this really difficult behaviour, you get questioned by the teacher like this.
Sorry, I don't agree with joburg at all. It is true that teachers have to explore what is happening at home, but there are ways of reaching out. I think the teacher could have been more compassionate.

magso Thu 05-Nov-09 14:53:31

Hi Brandy! I am so sorry you have been hurt. Brings back bad memories!
My son (10)has challenging behaviour, but is often able to contain the low level stuff at school until he 'settles in' (is comfortable with the class) each year. Your sons teacher has not won that level of trust yet ( a dubious badge of honour) but it might a helpful thing to say to the teacher ! However the very worst behaviour occurs if there is a change of expected routine or if there is a control conflict (in his eyes) ie both parent and teacher in classroom, which unsettles him terribly. You had all of these difficult things happening at once and I know my son would have lost it too. It is safe to loose it once I am there.
I found the early years at school very difficult in part because of the constant hurtful parenting implications- but have developed a thicker hide now! Also as ds has got older it is a bit more obvious that he is different not naughty.
The concept of a 'passport' may help although it is early days. This is a list of things that help to advise other carers what the child needs to feel happy/secure/know what happening. In my sons case he needs to know his schedule. If there is to be a change (even a small one - I might list the sort of changes) he needs to be told of it and gently remindied (the teacher needs to be involved in this too) so that he can cope with the change. Life is so much calmer for us all (teacher ds and me!) if the teachers are involved in keeping him secure.
Sending a (hug)!

huffyhuffystompstomprahrahrah Thu 05-Nov-09 14:57:10

I do respite for a 13yr old boy who wont go to bed until 11 and insists on sleeping in a bed next to his mum and she has to face him all night long - if she dares turn away (even when asleep) he has a sixth sense, will wake up, and then turn her over to face him again. When he is at my house he goes up to his own bed at eight, sleeps there all night long and doesn't get out of bed until I go in and get him.
Kids ALWAYS behave differently with their parents, and from my experience, their mum's in particular. And just because this young man sleeps beautifully at my house, that doesn't mean it isn't extremely exhausting and distressing for him mum that such a high level of dependency exists. Or that it is a result of 'bad parenting'. She is an amazing mum. It is all wrapped up in his dx. I am sure you are an amazing mum too Brandy. smile

magso Thu 05-Nov-09 15:53:07

(Well said Huffy!)

brandy77 Thu 05-Nov-09 16:57:19

well what a turn around just because my ex has shown support at school! i cant reply fully now cause of doing tea etc. but will be on later to let you know what has happened. thankyou for your responses, huffy, im very interested in the boy you provide respite as this bedtime ritual is exactly the same as my son!!! I have to "guard" him. xx

brandy77 Thu 05-Nov-09 20:10:49

my ex went for the meeting with the Head who had taken my written complaint in the contact book and my voicemail message from when i left the meeting with the TA and teacher yesterday,seriously. Apparently they admitted that they hadnt been understanding to me and i would be getting a written apology for what was said in the meeting yesterday.

She also showed my ex an email that the class teacher had sent my sons nurse in London yesterday (only half an hour before the meeting), which basically was querying my sons admission next week!!! The Head said that she knew it looked bad in the email as it did come across as checking up on the admission. No wonder i got the 3rd degree yesterday and was questioned about the admission, even though i had told them 2 weeks ago and so had the hospital!! My ex confirmed that our son is indeed being admitted tuesday to wed/thursday next week. The Head questioned why i had told the teacher my son would not be at school Monday and my ex confirmed that we as parents felt it was too risky incase he caught a bug/cold (il be keeping him in all weekend) and then he wouldnt be admitted. If he has a bug 3 weeks prior to admission he cant be admitted.

The Head said that our sons attendance is 60% (hes been there since beginning sept), my ex again explained that our son does get very unwell during the autumn/winter months and always has due to his medical condition and that we were hoping after his tests next week that he would be starting on steroids which would help him recover from general childrens illnesses, which leave him v.poorly and takes a long time to recover.

She also said that they hadnt taken enough notice of found out enough info about my sons condition (even though i provided heaps of literature).

But the big turn around is that they are now saying they are willing to give my son his medication on an "as needed" basis, rather than me giving him medication before school even if he doesnt require it which leads to complications. My ex explained that as a teacher himself, when he has children on medication he has to learn how to support the child and learn about the condition and they have to do it too.

Anyway, the Head has phoned him again tonight and said that the class teacher is still upset about what has happened. I think too be honest they are worrying if i am going to take it further, which i am not. when my son is happy he is very happy there and when he isnt i just have trouble getting him there and stay for a bit till hes settled.

Another meeting has been arranged for my ex and the class teacher first thing monday morning, where he will be explaining more about our sons condition and basically telling them that our son does have a deformity in his head which has led to the condition, which will most likely mean more medications added to the ones hes already on which will have to be administered by the school.

So there you have it, all this upset could have been avoided if the teachers had taken more note of a mother who knows her sons illness/behaviour problems inside out, and if they had listened and supported me instead of fighting against me and basically making me feel like an neurotic mother.

Huffy, my son was exactly the same as the teenager boy you mention until the paed gave him melatonin. It was horrific at night time, he would do exactly the same...crying and telling me to guard him and that i wasnt allowed to sleep, i got to the point of severe exhaustion because he would nod off at say 11 to 1am so i would automatically nod off and he would be awake instantly
screaming that i wasnt guarding him, he also pulled my face to face him and would stare wide eyed at me until he nodded off...it was the worst time in my whole life, it went on for 6mnths and then the paed gave me the melatonin for him. He still asks me to guard him and until the melatonin kicks in, which is pretty quick, i just sit and read a paper...that stuff is a godsend, stopped me having a mental breakdown

thederkinsdame Thu 05-Nov-09 20:40:59

Brandy, have you thrown the words 'inclusion policy' into any of your corrrespondence? Also query whether they are allowing your son to access the curriculum in a flexible manner, taking account of his condition, and being supportive of his additional needs - the fact that they are querying attendance etc could be seen as not supporting him, as could the fact that they are refusing to help with meds (I believe - do check!), and also by not taking account of how his codition may affect his ability to attend.

Secondly, if you haven't got one, get yourself a copy of the Special Educational Needs Code of Practice. I've certainly found it enlightening and you can use their terminology in correspondence to show you know what you are talking about! I've also been told that tucking a copy under your arm when you go to meetings makes them sit up and take you seriously.

Finally, is your DS statemented? If not, I would apply straight away, so everything is in writing.

Hope you get on OK - I'm glad your ex is being supportive.

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