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dd1, school, and weeing!

(8 Posts)
silverfrog Wed 23-Sep-09 16:02:24

dd1 is dry during the day.

we started toilet training last december, and she was mostly dry straight away (only 1 accident a day) as she doesn't really drink enough and so can hold on for ages...

so, she has been dry for coming up to 8 months now, let's say.

she is doing really well at home, at the shops, in restaurants, other people's houses etc - she asks, sits on well (with or without child seat)does her stuff and proclaims loudly that she's done. she then gets her reward - a single choc chip (like in cookies) and a bit of her fav dvd. we are fading both of these, but she does still need the motivation at times. if we are out and about, though, she accepts that her ewards may not be readily available, and we postpone until we get home (and usually after she has had another wee at home)

however...

dd1's school has always refused to do the reward thing - they know better, and apparently (so they told me when we were first training) they have a high success rate with their methods.

result, dd1 has wee'd once at school (actually very early on in her training), got no reward, and now doesn't bother.

this wasn't a huge problem until recently, as she was only going for half days, so there for 3 hours max. She now does 2 full days a week, and still won't wee there. school has relented, and said they will reward, but obv the problem is getting dd1 to wee first! she is nothing if not stubborn...

so, what do you think we can do about this now?

today, dd1 got up and I postponed her having a wee until we got to school (think it might be easier for me to get ehr to wee than the staff) - she didn't go before school, despite her knowing I had her choc and dvd ready.

I am just back form pickin gher up - she has drunk over half a litre today (an unprecedented amount for dd1, especially by mid-afternoon), but unsurprisingly, no wee.

she was desperate by the time we got home, and did a huge wee, and no doubt will be weeing all afternoon now, but this is not ideal - it is not good for her to hold on for so long, and ultimately if she is uncomfortable enough she will regulate her drinking rather than wee (we have had huge issues with dd1 and drinking)

am very angry that school have let it come to this. it seems that everytime they try to "help" we end up with bigger problems than we started out with...

any ideas how we can get dd1 to wee at school?

Marne Wed 23-Sep-09 16:09:18

I think the school are in the wrong here, my dd1 had similar problems when she started school last year, the school rewarded her with stickers which worked a treat (took a while before dd1 stopped holding on until she got home).

I would be very angry as your dd could get a UTI from holding on until she gets home.

Could the school not give her a chart (she gets a tick on it when she wee's and mummy gives her the chocolate when she gets home)?

silverfrog Wed 23-Sep-09 16:18:35

yep, I'm furious that ti has come to this, tbh.

there was no need at all - they had it all - dd1 was dry, compliant (wouldn't ask at school, as she didn't talk there last year, but would go happily if suggested), understood what was needed, etc etc.

and they have screwed it up by not rewarding at a crucial time and also by expecting dd1 to dress/undress herself (she still gets a lot of help at home, but can now do most of it herself). result: an unwilling dd1 who in totally unmotivated to wee.

school now says (after a huge meeting in the summer) that they will reward, so there is choc in her bag, with dvd to follow at home (a concept she is familiar with form days out) but the problem is how to actually get her to wee now...

and school don't seem to have any idea of how to proceed. beyond just taking her as usual, which is unlikely to work really hmm

bigcar Wed 23-Sep-09 18:04:19

Ok so she gets a reward of chocolate and dvd if she does a wee. Would it work if she got this earlier in the process, say if she asks to go for a wee, or when she sits on the toilet (whether she wees or not)? Or maybe a different reward like Marnes stickers for asking/sitting so you could build from the start again. Is it possible they could reward with a sticker for something else she actually does at school so she understands that they will reward her if she does do a wee? Carrying on like this is not an option, the school should be helping you find a solution.

silverfrog Wed 23-Sep-09 18:27:20

it would work with just about anything (dd1 is very easily reinforced/motivated tbh) - but whether the school are willing is another thing!

if she were allowed to play for a couple of minutes in the sandpit she would be weeing all morning I reckon... or if someone would sing a song with her, read a story - the list is endless. we have said choc/dvd for consistency, but they are not coming up with any ideas.

the problem is that they assumed she was not understanding, or fearful of toilets when she first didn't wee, and so a whole routine has built up of her going to the toilet, sitting down, chatting for a bit, then anouncing "finished" (crucial this, as when she has actually weed she says "wipe bottom") then jumping up, getting dressed flushing toilet (not really sure why - I mean, if she hasn't doen anything, why flush?! this might also be confusing her) stating she is a good girl/well done etc (all provided by dd1 - she is a praise junkie grin) then back to class. how to get through to her that she needs to actually perform is the rpoblem.

we've never had this anywhere else - we've been on 2 holidays since she was trained, and she's been fine at airports, on planes, in various hotels/restaurants/shopping centres. she's fine at friends' houses, and she's fine with a variety of people taking her - it's only school that is the rpoblem.

bigcar Wed 23-Sep-09 19:26:07

"chatting for a bit" grin So if sitting on the toilet isn't a problem, why are they praising her? Sounds more like they they need to be asking wipe bottom?, getting the language in that she is familiar with and not let her flush as that's what you do when you've done a wee. Then something along the lines of, never mind, wee and flush next time then you can have a reward. Has she tried looking in the toilet after so she has a visual cue of wee or no wee? Surely it should just be common sense to them to at least try something different.

Are the school aware that this is an issue just when she is with them, if not make sure they are, they need to understand that this is down to them to solve, you can't be there all day! Are there any friendly "professionals" involved that would speak to the school, unfortunately it seems they often listen to them when they've completely ignored a parent saying the exact same thing.

silverfrog Thu 24-Sep-09 08:53:26

agree with everythign you've said, bigcar, and tbh, it's the obvious path isn't it? but school don't seem tot see it that way.

it isn't a case of them "letting" her flush - they are actively encouraging it as a part of the process.

dd1 herself jumps up, has a look, says "no wee here. maybe next time have a wee. try again later" and then gets dressed and flushes.

school are well aware it is a problem just with them, but will reiterate today (I do like to make sure everyone knows grin)

I just can't see how they have let it come to this, and they are all out of ideas as to how to progress from here. to be fair, they are asking what/how we do things at home, but I am not sure that is the rpoblem. they have createda routine with dd1 (and boy does she like to create routines, inc language used etc) and they need to break it - what we do at home is irrelevant really. dd1 has been to the loo just about everywhere imaginable, with at least 5 different people (we're a bit short on close family!) who all use slightly different langage with her anyway (trying to avoid that routine build-up).

<sigh> - you know the worst thign about this? dd1 is at an ASD school. you'd think they'd have a clue, wouldn't you?!

bigcar Thu 24-Sep-09 10:34:27

It's ridiculous isn't it, an asd school should definitely know sooooooo much better. You're right when you say they've created a new routine, they've tried what you do at home and it's not working! You would think they'd be full of ideas, like any kid, kids with asd aren't all the same, what works for one doesn't work for all hmm Have they tried writing a social story for her? It just sounds like it's their attitude that is more of a problem, hope you get somewhere talking to them today smile

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