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I have a problem with dd2 (NT we think) but thought I would ask here as it's behavioural, and we're the experts, right :-)

(19 Posts)
silverfrog Thu 09-Jul-09 13:00:19

dd2 is 2.5, and (we think) NT.

she hit 2 with a bang, and (literally on her birthday) started having huge control freakery tantrums.

we thought she was just being 2, and still do thik that mostly. she does have a few ASD traits, but we are not massively worried atm.

anyway, she has got into the habit of creating issues for a tantrum - where she will ask for something, then when it is given refuse it, then screamm over not having it, but when brought back scream over not wanting it, etc.

eg when at lunch, after main meal the dds get fruit. today, dd1 asked for banana, so I went to get one. dd2 says (quite nicely, but with a bit of an edge) "no banana for dd2" so I didn't giver her any (having acknowledged what she said)

she started screaming for banana, as thoguh I had not let her have one.

stifling my sighs, I went to get her one. as soon as she saw it, she went ballistic, screaming "no banana!".

I take it away, she screams for it.

and so on.

what should I do? this doesn't just happen for food, it can be for anything.

last night she set up the most awful nopise after they went to bed because she wanted a toy car. no big deal (what do I care if she wants a car in her cot?), I gave it to ehr (I currently have to wait outside the dds room until they are asleep as dd1 having sleep issues). she screamed because it was there, setting dd1 off as dd1 having noise sensitivity issues atm.

2 hours later I finally calmed them both down (well, actually, dh came home and they shut up as soon as they saw him hmm).

the car issue (as in whether dd2 wanted the damn thing in the first place) was never solved.

I am guilty of being more lenient with dd2 than dd1 (partly second child, partly if dd2 has a tantrum then dd1 joins in, and on the whole that is best avoided) but usually in minor things.

this level of control freak 2 year old, where I can't do right for doing wrong, is really wearing me out.

ChopsTheDuck Thu 09-Jul-09 14:14:17

the joy of two year olds!

One of my dts is like that, stil is really, has the most awful temper tantrums. At that age he was still in a cot too, and I used to dump him in it and leave him to scream it out. There is no reasoning with them.

Now he just goes to his room. If he throws things around then he tidies it up after. If I know it is coming, I can distract him from it, or now he is older reason a bit. If it happens while we are out I find somewhere for him to sit and scream it out, because he hits and punches me if I get too close.

Probably not very reassuring, but I think they do jsut need space to scream it out and eventually they do start learning a little bit of self control!

FabBakerGirlIsBack Thu 09-Jul-09 14:16:56

I don't mean to be flippant but all I can think to say is mums can't do anything right with 2 year olds at times.

Poshpaws Thu 09-Jul-09 14:23:17

I agree with the others. Definately typical 2 year old behaviour and I have had 2 NT ones (one now 7, the other 2.3 so currently experiencing the contrary attitude). DS2 (NT according to professionals,not so sure acc. to me) did not do this at 2...but did it at 3grin.

cyberseraphim Thu 09-Jul-09 15:03:08

Pure NT - DS2 2.6 does this all the time - 'I want x' - Gets x '" I don't like x' Repeat all day !

madwomanintheattic Thu 09-Jul-09 15:49:46

ditto x 3. thank goodness it's over.
sympathy, but time'll fix it. smile

and just ignore. decide how many chances she can have for a want/ don't want, and then just say no, and ignore, whatever the freakery tantrum she pulls. be consistent - whatever your tolerance is lol. i could just about cope with two mind-changes, after that it was no deal - always told her it was the last chance though. wink

and if it got really bad, i'd make myself a cup of tea and read 'toddler taming' for the fifty-third time whilst listening to the background fury.

silverfrog Thu 09-Jul-09 20:46:52

thanks everyone smile

I kind of knew it was normal, but I was hoping someone would come along with pearls of wisdom and say "oh, i solved that really easily by doing X" (if only things were that easy grin)

the real issue is less dd2's tantrums (she can carry on all day as far as I'm concerned) but more the effect they have on dd1 - she cannot bear her sister crying (both emotionally and purely due to the bloody awful noise - dd2 is tiny, but boy can she scream grin and dd1 is very noise sensitive)

last night was just awful for dd1, and there was no way i could have averted it. dd1 was practically in hysterics over the noise, and since they share a room she couldn't get away form it. honestly, they were both shrieking at the top of their lungs for over 2 hours. and dd1 was really anxious about it all (she was soobing in her sleep for hours afterwards sad)

a lot of the time, dd1 and I can just walk away and leave her to it (or I can at least shield dd1 form the worst of it) but at mealties and bedtime, then there is no other way around it. <sigh>

5inthebed Thu 09-Jul-09 21:42:28

DS1 never had terrible 2's, but my neice did, and she was so much like your DD. She is a definite screamer, and can cry, scream and yell to get what she wants. She has my dad wrapped around her finger, and she knows it. She is 5 btw.

cory Thu 09-Jul-09 21:44:16

I solved that really easily by ...errr....well...waiting a few years until she grew out of it. grin

ChopsTheDuck Fri 10-Jul-09 09:58:04

poor dd1!
How old is she? How about buying her some headphones so she can listen to some calming music when dd2 is off on one?

silverfrog Fri 10-Jul-09 10:03:32

dd1 is 4.10

can't wear headphones (they freak her out as much as the noise does!)

here's hoping dd2 grows out of this fast

cyberseraphim Fri 10-Jul-09 10:13:52

DS1 gets very upset when DS2 cries - We were thinking it might be a sign of empathy developing or it could just be that DS2's cries are horrible and grating...

silverfrog Fri 10-Jul-09 10:18:24

it is definitely both for dd1. she hates dd2 being upset for any reason (there is not going to be a more spoilt child than dd2 grin as dd1 goes to great lengths to shut her up make her happy - until the sibling rivalry kicks in, and then she winds her up again!)

but the hysterics were down to the amount of noise. it was deafening - my ears were still ringing an our later!

flyingmum Fri 10-Jul-09 12:17:39

My mother in law used to splash water in her kid's faces when they went off on one. The coldness shocks them into shutting up. Well in desperation I tried it. Well apart from soaking me and child, the entire bathroom looking as if the flood had happened (it's amazing how much coverage a little water will have!!!) it sort of worked particularly coupled with a gimlet look in the eye and a voice saying 'stop crying now' in a tone that won't brook any crap voice. Your two year old is being a little bugger and has picked up on your concern for DD1 and knows exactly which buttons to press. I think when she starts screaming, whether it be at mealtimes or bed you pick her up and put her somewhere really boring like the bathroom and keep her there in time out. She'll scream and kick and you'll have to hold the door but once she realises she's not being the centre of attention then she might stop. Couple this with praising anything good you can find so she gets immediate feedback for being nice. Or give her a defined choice. "OK DD2 Banana or apple which one?" that then removes the I don't want bit. Would your DD1 understand if you explain what DD2 is upto with her so she feels big sistery about it.

Failing anything lots of gin, wine and chocolate.

ChopsTheDuck Fri 10-Jul-09 12:44:19

I'd go with the gin, wine and chocolate too!

There is no way the water would work for mine. The last massive tantrum he had coincided with shower time. I thought the shower would calm him down and there was no way he could keep screaming in the shower. Ha! Water everywhere, him sliding around as he tried to punch and kick me, and lots of gurgling screaming noises that sounded like I was trying to drown him!

I don't think choices always help, cos you say a or b, they say a then decide on b, then want a and so on! It did remind me though, that I have found does help is self service! If you tell her to get it herself, she can't possibly have a fit, because there is nobody to argue with! grin

silverfrog Fri 10-Jul-09 13:40:39

oh, i don't know Chops, she'd probably have a good go grin

I could see the aversion water thing working, ut it would also freak out dd1 so would defeat the object somewhat

I had moderate success this lunchtime, when i was giving her some pear. I put it on her plate, and she took a breath ready to scream no, and I just asked her calmly if she wanted the pear.

she paused, and said yes. so I pointed to it, and very quietly said "there it is".

she looked at it and took breath again, ready to scream, so I asked again (very quietly)

she again said yes, so i pointed it out again.

when she next looked ready to scream, I told her that if she didn't want it, I oculd take it away. she started to get (mildly) upset at the thought of me taking it away, so i just said (again quietly and nicely) "ok, I won't be able to if you eat it up".

and that worked, today.

tomorrow will no doubt be another story grin

madwomanintheattic Fri 10-Jul-09 13:45:56

that's the key though - icy calm and get in before the noise starts. grin

RaggedRobin Fri 10-Jul-09 22:51:02

that's the strategy i've been using with ds. when he starts to complain about something i know he wants, i just ask calmly, "shall i put it in the bin?" and he stops the fuss... usually!

cjones2979 Fri 10-Jul-09 23:00:39

<<I don't think choices always help, cos you say a or b, they say a then decide on b, then want a and so on! It did remind me though, that I have found does help is self service! If you tell her to get it herself, she can't possibly have a fit, because there is nobody to argue with!>>

Chops With regards to this suggestion of yours, unfortunately for me, if I say to DS1 "Get it yourself", we then get "Mummy/Daddy get it" but when we try to he screams "DS1 do it" and so on. We just can't win in our house !!! grin

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